A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

For me we have so much material coming out these days that I tend to view it once and then move on to what's coming next. I pretty much only read a book or comic series once and I don't think I have done an entire second watch through for any of the shows since they have come out. It's probably been a year or more since I have watched any of the movies all the way through.

 

I don't think the hypocrisy is intentional although it can be frustrating during discussions.

I think what happens is when we watch a film (or read a book or play a game or whatever) we just generally like or dislike it for whatever reason. I think generally this is almost a gut feeling that can be influenced by all kinds of things and most often we don't really have the tools to honestly break down why we came to that opinion.

In most situations, this doesn't matter as we just think "that was good" or "that was not good" and move on with our day, but when you come to the fanbases of franchises like Star Wars people want to talk about it and they take it all so personally. So when we revisit the film in discussions we start trying to think about why we had our opinion and moreover start trying to defend that opinion and too often try to establish our opinion as The Truth. When we do that we need to have reasons why the film was good or bad so we start digging into it trying to find that justification, but, as stated, we often don't really have the tools to self-reflect honestly and identify what caused us to feel a certain way about the film, etc.

Supposed "plot holes" and continuity errors tend to be the bread butter of these kinds of discussions for people who disliked The Thing because they feel like objective faults that prove "The Thing Is Bad" as being an inherent, objective truth. So the people who dislike The Thing tear into it and start nitpicking looking for anything that could potentially qualify as a plot hole or error. My favorite in these discussions is when people who had only seen The Thing once (or maybe not even seen it; just heard third party accounts) insist upon plot holes and errors that are very clearly not there to anyone who had seen the movie or seen it more recently/more than once.

And its not just people who dislike The Thing that have this bias although I think negativity stands out more in general. Legit continuity flubs can pull someone out of a movie, so if one insists it shouldn't be a problem for anyone that's bias in favor of The Thing and also I've seen fans push their particular Thing as needing to be Super Special and Groundbreaking rather than just a Thing they particularly like.

 

They should make every Episode IX they considered and everyone can pick which ending he/she likes best with no content coming set afterwards ever at all (except Lego). We need a Star Wars WHAT IF... even if animated only!

Lucas version A of VI / VII - IX (early 80s ideas about Luke's sister)
Lucas version B of VII - IX (Art and Making of TFU version of ST era game ideas)
Lucas version C of VII - IX (Archives The Prequels Interview Version based on TCW Maul married to Legacy)
Lucas version D of VII - IX (his outline given to Disney which may have been close to C but differed in some aspects)
Kasdan version of VIII - IX (outlined when conceptualising TFA)
Abrams version of VIII - IX (based on Kasdan but also pre-Kasdan writer ideas and his own)
Rian Johnson version of IX
Trevorow version of IX (Duel of the Fates leaked script)
The ultimate Legends version of a fully compatible ST (despite lots of Sequel ideas alread done in various book and comic series/trilogies)
etc.

and @Sinrebirth will still unify them all one way or another

With Force Ghosts on a Metaperspective plane, Ezra "Bridger", the WBW, Mortis and Jacen Solo Flowwalking and Ahsoka the White SW already got its Multiverse Watcher tools set up.

 

I'd rather we didn't have a what-if? series

 

I just think it seems kinda cash-grabby

 

What-If’s a weird situation, because it was a long established thing in the Marvel comics that they’re put out that title once a year or so (I believe they’ve slowed it down in recent times) and Marvel Studios sort of adapted that tradition for the MCU.

With Star Wars, I think the closest comparison would be...hmm, maybe “The Star Wars” comic based on Lucas original draft?

(Wouldn’t mind seeing that animated...)

 

There's also the Infinities comics where they did what-if scenarios for each of the three OT films. I've always wondered what something like that for the Prequels would have been like if Dark Horse had kept making them.

 

I think they should make Legends stuff alongside canon.

 

I’d certainly love that.

 

I never understood why they didn't just continue doing legends stuff so that they can wrap that timeline along with the Disney stuff. RJ is supposed to have done an interview either on Variety or Empire concerning his take on TLJ. I wonder if anyone has read it yet?

 

https://www.empireonline.com/movies...-star-wars-last-jedi-five-years-on-exclusive/

 

Wouldn't it help to continue Legends if they kept publishers licenses distinct from canon ones? I mean, one could easily keep lines different by different book formats, publishers and media to minimize fans confusion. And those that still are should inform themselves properly... catering to those too lazy to take care never worked out and was already stupid when they catered to the movie purists with a reboot. That didn't pull those into reading any more than it attracted new readers and did not conform any non-readers of old.

Heck or for canons sake, frame every Legends continuation story as inuniverse tale with a framing of some Jedi, Historian or else telling it to an audience. It can be true to Legends but canon can have pov and pick or ignore it as made up for a purpose. But that way we would get more Legends. And given they are too afraid to do multiverse or timetravel stories that could warrant alternate realities interwined with the current official one, there are many other ways to continue them distinct yet in a way that both lines profit.

You could even do that for movies or tv... have Ahmed Bests Jedi Master tell a tale to the Apprentices about Nomi Sunrider, cue flashback.

Or for the more complicated stuff, have Ben Solo be not amused about inuniverse fiction giving the Solos another set of children for inuniverse media because they legally fought to get Ben unuseable and keep his privacy. While he would have prefered some hero fame he was denied.

I think Rian Johnson would even be talented enough to pull off something like that on the big screen. The way he subverted many SW tropes and deconstructed SW in his brilliant movie (one of the best SW ones imho), him doing Legends somehow would be great. Still though I prefer a Lit/comic continuation of Legends.

 

That's like the exact opposite of Rian's approach.

 

I think the idea of having legends continued is far better than the actual practice of it would be.

If they continued legends people would start complaining that the particular storyline they wanted to see wasn't picked up. They would start complaining that the author they wanted to see wasn't writing it. It would be a mess.

 

People literally complain about every facet of Star Wars these days, if they complained about trivial bs like that it wouldn’t be the end of the world.

 

I always got a laugh out of people banging on about wanting Legends to keep going. I remember the hate it used to get so frequently. And especially the folks wanting to move on from the Big 3, wanting them killed off etc.

Gripes a higher profile when there are movies, but they have always existed and always will and if Legends were picked up people would hate whatever was done for Sword of the Jedi and Tahiri and Ben etc etc.

It seems like it's the nature of this fandom.

 

The nature of any fandom this large tbh

 

Well, the Middle-Earth fandom has been showing it's behind long before Rings of Power premieres. And the MCU fandom is doing so as well. Trekkies too.

 

Oh let them show their behinds...