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Lit Examples of The Force's Will

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ewan Tibbetts, Jul 21, 2017.

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Do you like the will of the force?

  1. Yes.

    57.1%
  2. No.

    33.3%
  3. I am the Bendu, the one in the middle!

    9.5%
  1. Ewan Tibbetts

    Ewan Tibbetts Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2016
    The will of the force is one of the most mysterious concepts in Star Wars. It also stinks of hack screenwriting. I've been thinking about it and how it could be expanded upon in future content. Instead of re-reading all my books I thought I would ask here for were to look for explicate references to it in canon material.
     
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  2. DARTH_MU

    DARTH_MU Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2005
    I can't believe the Force wants the Light side to win. There is no balance if the Force favours one side all of the time.
    It is the Force.
     
  3. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    In Legends the existence, power, and actions of the Skywalker line. Who I have always thought to be avatars of the forces will to some extent.

    The creation of the Jedi and Sith orders-the Jedi could have remained a bunch of obscure Mystics on a planet in the deep core yet somehow they rose to great prominence. The Sith's survival-they were shot into unknown space despite the wishes of the government by the Jedi thinking them mere schismatics who would either die or learn the error of their ways. Instead they conquered a people that fit their beliefs yet were shaped by them as well.

    There are other examples but the force is in my estimation at least semi sentient.
     
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  4. QuiWanKenJin

    QuiWanKenJin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Generally the belief that the Force has a will is sometimes referred to as the Living Force. Qui-Gon Jinn was of this persuasion as evidenced in Episode I and so was Kreia/Darth Traya. In this way some think of the Force as similar to a deity.
     
  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I thought "the future" and "fulfilling destiny" are more often associated with Unifying Force?

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unifying_Force

    In the novel The Unifying Force:


    “Sentience gave rise to the dark side. Does it exist in nature? No. Left to itself, nature maintains the balance. But we've changed that. We are a new order of consciousness that has an impact on all life. The Force now contains light and dark because of what thinking beings have brought to it. That's why balance has become something that must be maintained—because our actions have the power to tip the scales."
    "But here's what I wish to say to all of you: if I have learned anything from the events of the past five years, it is that the Force is more all-embracing than I ever realized. Light and dark do not always stand opposed, but mingle with each other in curious ways. More important, the Force seems to have a will, and it's when we're acting against the will of the Force that we can get into trouble. Anger by itself is not of the dark side unless it is accompanied by a desire to dominate. When we act in harmony with the will of the Force, we disappear into it. When we struggle against it, we not only sever our ties with the Force, but also feed the needs of chaos.
    "The evolution of sentience reflects the constant movement between those two poles. Evil—the dark side—won't be eradicated until it has been discarded as an option for acquiring power, subjugating would-be opponents, or offsetting feelings of anger, envy, or exclusion. Where victims of injustice exist, the dark side finds initiates. That is the cycle our actions are meant to forestall, and in this battle the Force is both our ally and our guardian. We serve it best by listening to its will, and serving the good with our every action—by personifying the Force.”


    Also

    --annotation: Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

    I may have been the one who fired the shot, but the Force itself wanted to purge the galaxy of the Death Star. It was the embodiment of everything that’s wrong with the dark side.
    —Luke
     
  6. QuiWanKenJin

    QuiWanKenJin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Apparently there is some degree of confusion caused by contradicting sources. The definition for the Unifying Force, that is given sounds a lot like Qui-Gon's philosophy, such as "living in the moment." But he calls it the Living Force, strange. Alternatively the Cosmic Force and the Unifying Force seem to be synonymous. :confused:
     
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  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Qui-Gon is mostly a Living Force philosopher - except for his belief in The Chosen One:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Force/Legends
     
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  8. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013

    Light is balance. The dark side is corruption and imbalance. So to say the Force is favoring one side by being on the side of light is incorrect. The Force isn't completely dualistic; the dark side is a perversion of the Force's natural state, while the light side is the Force used naturally and appropriately. Thus, the dark side isn't a side that the Force could even choose. It would be like siding against itself, which would be ridiculous.

    I look forward to what The Last Jedi adds to this discussion. In particular, when Rey says in the trailer, "Light...dark...the balance," and Luke replies, "It's so much bigger." What does he mean? Has he discovered some facet to the Force that hasn't been explored before? Or maybe he's made some discoveries about the Cosmic Force, since Yoda seemed to primarily focus on the Living Force in ESB.
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The Father, on Mortis, does say "Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you know it"
     
  10. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2013
    I don't think the Force has a will, not in a way that could be normally comprehended anyway. The Jedi think it has a will that favors them, but it clearly doesn't. There are certainly some coincidences (and when badly written, plot contrivances) which COULD mean it has a will, but I don't think the Force is entirely understood by anyone. I'm a Legends fan so I still go by the line of thinking that every belief in the Force could be correct in its own way and that none of them are 100% the 'real way the Force works'.
     
  11. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013

    For Mortis specifically, yes, because the world had a very odd balance where literally everything died at night and was reborn in the day. That wasn't exactly a great message in favor of "balance includes the dark side."
     
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  12. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    The light is following the will of the Force.
    The dark side is trying to oppose the will of the Force.
     
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  13. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    The Dark Side is an integral part of the force.
     
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  14. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2017
    " . . . you must understand that not even the Jedi know all there is to be known about the Force; no mortal mind can. We speak of the will of the Force as someone ignorant of gravity might say it is the will of a river to flow to the ocean; it is a metaphor that describes our ignorance. The simple truth - if any truth is ever simple - is that we do not truly know what the will of the Force may be. We can never know. It is so far beyond our limited understanding that we can only surrender to its mystery."
     
  15. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    While I don't think this is what Lucas intended, I think you're more on point to what he was going for than pure "light side" vs "dark side" with "balance" floating somewhere in between like a see-saw.

    Lucas was never quite clear where biology came into play with the Force (midichlorians being one of those curveballs), but I think there's been a lot of conflation by others over "life" and "the universe" (the latter being aka "everything"). "Life" isn't "the universe". What is good or bad for "life" isn't good or bad for "the universe". The "light side" may promote "life" and the "dark side" may hinder it, but they don't affect "the universe" this way.

    Ex: I breathe oxygen. I think oxygen is good. I can't breath ammonia; that's bad. My pal Ooryl Qyrgg breaths ammonia. He thinks oxygen is bad. The universe doesn't give a darn what we think.

    Back to the Will of the Force: Light and dark are both aspects of it that need to stay in balance. Lucas has been clear on that; TCW, when under his indirect direction, definitely explored that, whether we like certain story arcs or not. But are the light and dark entirely dependent on what life does? Absolutely not. Life is just a small part, like a pawn in the game. The Force is in rocks and water and everything else. It's not limited to matter either (obviously). Living things can tap into it and "feel" or "use" it in different ways, and they can certainly be influenced by it (and even misunderstand or debate the intentions of these influences -- see the Jedi in ROTS), but the entire Force isn't limited to what living organisms perceive as "light" and "dark" (which seems to have an awful lot to do with biological "life" and "death"). The Force is doing way more. In other words, Stover's quote that comradepitrovsky just recited.
     
  16. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    The Father, on Mortis, is later murdered by the Brother while the Sister tries to protect him. The Father is emphatically wrong.

    As for examples of the Force's will: I've said it before and I'll say it again, it couldn't be more heavy handed for Rey, a girl from a backwater desert planet, to show up on Ach-To in the Millennium Falcon, with Artoo and Chewie, carrying Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber. I imagine Luke rolling his eyes and thinking, "Fine, I get it, I'll go back."
     
  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    The midi-chlorians aren't really that hard to understand-they are nothing more than little synapses connecting the metaphysical(the force) and the corporeal-living beings. The greater number you have the greater your potential in the force.

    Which is part of the tragedy of Darth Vader-both as a Sith and Jedi he had incredible potential-so much so Sidious could say with confidence he would be stronger than both Yoda and himself.
     
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  18. DARTH_MU

    DARTH_MU Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2005
    What if midicholorians are a side effect? The chicken, rather than the egg.
     
  19. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I don't believe they would exist if the force did not.
     
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  20. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    I always thought it had more to do with ease of use and strength of connection, rather than maximum potential. Anakin Skywalker is a fiber optic cable.
     
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  21. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I always interpreted both TPM and ROTS as well as Darth Plagueis as maximum potential.

    After all Anakin Skywalker also could resist force drain-an anomalous trait very few else could achieve. He sired a family legacy in Legends-comprising both Jedi and Sith that all had great power. Luke met his potential, Jacen, Anakin, and probably Jaina never met I think what they could have achieved. Leia squandered her potential which presumably was probably close to Luke's. Ben closed himself off from the force in the first years of his life squandering his pontential(IMO). Cade-he had a lot of potential and power. He could "walk the line between light and dark without falling." That's impressive.
     
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  22. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    I guess I just don't know what "maximum potential" means. How do you quantify power in the Force, and what would that mean practically speaking? Do we think for a second that Yoda couldn't do everything Anakin could? For that reason I've always tended to believe that it had to do with how connected you were to the Force - Anakin could do things easily and perhaps without as much practice or effort. He's predisposed, like an athlete might be predisposed, but that doesn't mean that someone with fewer natural advantages couldn't work hard to become every bit as skilled or powerful an athlete.
     
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  23. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    That and the balance or Mortis proved to be faulty and unrealistic. It fell apart over time and raises the question of whether or not that even was the Force in balance
     
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  24. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    The way I define maximum pontential is the concrete feats an individual can achieve and the depth they can reach in the connection to the force.

    Sidious, Vitiate, Luke Skywalker, Jacen Solo, Darth Krayt, and a few others had a connection to the force that stretched to their very souls. While also achieving feats that would be interpreted as the acts of demigods. Anakin could have surpassed them and yet his physical deformities prevented him from achieving all he could be.

    I rank force users in terms of power and depth while the latter is hard to measure the former isn't. The beings I listed are probably the most powerful beings in Stat Wars(excluding the Bedlam spirits and Abeloth). Below them are those like Yoda, Nomi Sunrider, Darth Bane.

    Below them-Mace Windu, Malak, Mara Jade.

    Below them-Obi Wan, Darth Nihl, some the ancient Sith.

    Below them-Ahsoka, Danni Quee, and etc...

    The higher you go on my personal scale-the higher the midi-chlorian count. The lower you go-the lower midi-chlorian count.
     
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  25. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    The way the midi-chlorians were described when Qui-Gon gave his ELI5 was explicitly in terms of one's sensitivity to the Force. If Anakin has, say, twice the midi-chlorian count of Yoda, it suggests to me that -- all else being equal -- Anakin could do everything Yoda does twice as easily.

    But all else is never equal.

    You think Anakin is nearly as good as quieting his mind as Yoda? That he even has the capacity for that kind of acute mental focus?

    Luke could well have far greater potential than Anakin. Not because he has a better midi-chlorian count, but because he has a better character.

    Perhaps I'm misremembering the episodes -- I didn't like them, and only forced myself through them twice -- but I thought both the Father and Daughter insisted that the Son had a place in the grand scheme of things while also acknowledging that it was his nature to try and throw things out of wack.

    Which, if we roll with the usual understanding of the allegory, leaves us with:

    Will: Guys, stay in balance with each other, that'll keep the universe ticking along nicely. Too much of either of you would be bad. :-B
    Light: Okay, Pops, I will work towards that. O:)
    Dark: U wot no way Imma gonna do what I want ur not my real dad. :mad:

    I generally took the Father being murdered by the Son as an example of "too much dark" being the undoing of life as he knows it. If he were content to roll in the night at its allotted time and stay on the Yin side of the fence, like he was told, everything would be fine.

    The "too much light" thing strikes me more as a hypothetical than a genuine danger. "Yeah, if Daughter started pulling Son's crap things would be just as bad, but she never will because she's Daughter and usually does as she's told."