[Fan Fiction]Coruscant, we have some problems

: Hmmm, in reading this I think my solution would be to outlaw any interspecies pairing, except for only defined near-human species.

That's similar to what has been done... except the list of "near human" pairings is somewhat confusing. It seems to be based more on what is "shaped" like a human, rather than what's actually near-human from a biological standpoint. Right now, it's nearly impossible to tell if something not on the list (e.g., an author-created species) is okay without unwanted "red tape". Red tape has a way of killing enjoyment, which is the primary reason authors post here.

As for right now... put feathers on a human, it's a no-no for cavorting. Scales and cold-blood, however, are okay. See the confusion?

Again, this is an issue being discussed by the focus group, and the mods will then render a verdict. Not everyone will be happy with that verdict, no matter what it is, but at least it's being discussed.

 

The only thing I agree with your last post Dana, is that this thread should be locked.

 

I'm inclined to agree, since most of this is focus-group territory anyways...

 

[Typical. I take time out just when the thread starts to be a serious discussion on issues I believe strongly about... ]

Ghengis: Or, failing that, of Tenel Ka and a psionic rodent.

How else would you describe Jacen Solo?

So, I ask why not a Whaladon and Padme Amidala?

Leviathor is every bit as capable of tender, loving relationships as Asyr is.

And I'd agree with you!

If you can't take it seriously, why should anyone else?

Well, the 'fic Mods seem to take it all deadly seriously, for one thing. That, IMHO, is a lot of the problem...

It's also just as easy to render it absurd from the pro-Rishathra side, as well, you know...

Firke: are you suggesting Beldorion/Ashgad?!

Given the Larm/Getelles subtext, I guess it's possible - Ghengis, dp, since you're reading this - any chance of a "Wierdest Pairing in PoT" thread over in Lit.?

While I'm as pro-Rishathra as the next Ewok, discouraging people to do drugs can only be a good thing...

Ghengis: Well, since it hasn't been clear. The fact that Corran Horn officially had wild, casual, monkey-love sexual relations with a giant otter is somewhat bothersome. More bothersome for him, than me, though thankfully.

I have to recognize though that even if one doesn't have any problems with that situation, that others might. Some things, it's not enough to take JadeSolo's route and say, "Well, fine, if you don't like it, you can just close your eyes." For other things, it might work perfectly fine.

And, beyond the rhetoric, what exactly is it that you find wrong with Corran and Chertyl holding hands and kissing? Considering that these are PG-rated boards, most interaction will be on the level of touching, talking and cooperating in practical partnership... kinda like Han/Chewie, only with a little more physical contact...

Emotional intimacy, fundamentally. Beyond that, everything is body-language...

Some people have problems with people having problems with that sort of thing. You have to recognize that as well, surely?

Rose: You could say the same thing for homosexuality, Rape fics, Execessive torture fics, that doesn't mean any of those are going to be allowed.

I'm sure you didn't mean to lump same-sex attraction with rape and torture in a catch-all... beyond that, though: firstly, the theme of rape can be (and has been) handled at TF.N; secondly, the torture rule is more to do with the fact that it's a bad cliché in Prequel 'fic than anything else...

Now this is based on the fact that i have never seen a movie with homosexuals in it that was rated PG, they were all at least Pg-13.

Um, the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Rejoined" comes to mind. As does Will & Grace, which, though I've never watched it, I understand is pretty much basically just Friends with same-sex relationships...

Jaya: Has there ever been a homosexual pairing in the literature?

Leonia/Caet and Getelles/Larm are both implied - at the very least, written about in ways that suppose that the idea is part of the normal context of the GFFA; Moff Sarn Shild is also implied to like partners other than human females (though it's unclear whether male, female, or both, are meant)...

dp4m: It's amusing to me that a ficcer proposing this is getting bent out of shape by Genghis' suggestions.

What YOU are saying is that, if the *novels* allow Gavin/Asyr, why can't you.
What HE is saying is that, if the *boards* allow Gavin/Asyr, why can't he have Jaxxon/Leia? Or Jabba/Leia? Or Gavin/Saba? Or... n ... ?

Good question; but one with a simple answer: specific pairings clearly deemed appropriate in pro-fic by LFL should be allowed in fanfic by TF.N, the relevant characters' personal "compatibility" having been endorsed within the fandom and the canon, if you will...

This can be at least partially seperated from the wider issue of interspecies relationships...

 

Before we put the lock down on this thread, I want to know if people feel that problems outside of just the interspeices issue are being addressed? Are you happy with this 'focus group'? Do you think there has/will be change in the over all tone that brought this thread on in the first place? If yes, then I agree it should be locked, if not, perhaps we could move on to other problems?

Just curious.

 

I think that we should give it a chance to work.

 

Breezy: Before we put the lock down on this thread, I want to know if people feel that problems outside of just the interspeices issue are being addressed?

Of course. Thanks, DB!

Are you happy with this 'focus group'?

See above - my comments at the end of the last post aren't limited to the Interspecies issue...

Do you think there has/will be change in the over all tone that brought this thread on in the first place?

Do I still see stonewalling of discussion? Yes.

Do I still see an widespread inability to grasp other people's POVs? Yes.

Do I see people taking the whole thing far too seriously? Yes, with the caveat that "you're taking it too seriously", etc., can be used to stonewall, and that's just hypocrisy.

Do think prancing around and making a fuss helps? No, and I never did. I know that I can sometimes give the impression that I do, but it's never my intention, and the fact that my exuberance burns off like that is one of the things I least like about myself...

Okay, TMI... move along, move along...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

I just wanted to say - Thrawn, if you're going to quote Genghis in your sig, at least spell the dude's name right.

 

Sure. The fanfic mods are showing themselves more.

I'd like to voice my apologies to Genghis for my part in that... erh, discussion. I was very tired and easily irritated as, I suspect, were we all. (As long as they live in the US...)

 

TMcE: But who focuses the focus-group?

I'm not privy to that info. I'm willing to let that process go to its natural conclusion (or lack thereof) before forming an opinion on it. It may not be perfect, but it's certainly worth trying, IMO.

Breezy: Do you think there has/will be change in the over all tone that brought this thread on in the first place?

I think there's been some movement, but I also think it's too soon to know if that will continue or backtrack. Time alone will tell.

 

McEwok: aww, no Golden Ewok for that one?

I mean, I haven't read PoT, but that's surely up there with Jabba/Leia, Jabba/Oola, and maybe a few others as Hutt/humanoid possibilities.

Why? How is that a "solution", exactly? It may satisfy some, but it offends others - perhaps more...

Most of the interspecies arguments I've seen seem to go like this:

User: "Why can't I post [insert pairing (or more) here]?"
Mod: "It violates the interspecies rule."
U: "Why do we have an interspecies rule?"
M: "The owners set it down. If you want to post interspecies stuff, go elsewhere."
U: "Well, now my concern is that you let [multiple species pairing #1] but not mine. I want clarification on the rules."

It seems to end up more as a request for clarification in the rules instead of a request for changing the rules, and if dp's idea was implemented (which I'm apathetic about--as I hope I've established earlier, I'm not a fanficcer at all) that would end much of the drama over this (the same way it seems to have died down regarding slash).

 

For Cross-Species pairing to be allowed, the two species must be significantly alike. As an example, a twilek/human pairing would be allowed while a gungan/human pairing is not.

I have no problem with this rule. After all two different races like black/whites can't be together because they're way too different. I see the logic.

Oh, wait...


But who focuses the focus-group? I can understand that the Mods don't want the sort of maul that open discussion threads sometimes become, but I'm still somewhat troubled by the opacity of the selection and consultation process - I'd have said I had a reasonably wide circle of 'fic acquaintances (most or all of them, I think, in favour of at least the return of the interspecies rule to the original, unproblematic parameters) but there's no-one in the focusgroup who I even know to say "hello" to...



I, too, know no one in the focus group and like to have a place where I can voice my feelings. I think this thread not only SHOULD stay open but MUST.

 

and if dp's idea was implemented (which I'm apathetic about--as I hope I've established earlier, I'm not a fanficcer at all) that would end much of the drama over this (the same way it seems to have died down regarding slash).


I disagree with that hypothetical result, mainly because the EU works don't have obvious slash pairings in them (as far as I know?). They do, however, have obvious interspecies pairings. For people who write pilot fics, it's sometimes difficult to ignore that fact and keep the plot going - especially if they're trying to write something that's close to canon. So unless they have Gavin/female humanoid and slap a big "AU" in the thread title, they have to somehow skirt around the relationship factor.

For instance, I know of a story that was posted on fanfiction.net and not here only because of one slashy reference. It was only one mention (though it did explain a character's behaviour), but she couldn't post it here, and she didn't want to change it in order to make it fit the TOS/FAQ.

You could say that people could do the same with interspecies fics. But in the ff.net story, the character is from the JA books and is never mentioned in those books as having any kind of slash tendencies. That's something the fanfic author (and many others) interpret on their own. The thing about interspecies relationships is that they are indeed visible in profic. People seem to want at the very least those relationships to be allowed here. That's why I don't think the issue would die if all interspecies fics were simply prohibited.

edit: Now that I think about it, I hope this thread stays open. Because while I can give my opinions in the focus group, a lot of people have no other way of letting theirs be known.

 

JadeSolo: I just wanted to say - Thrawn, if you're going to quote Genghis in your sig, at least spell the dude's name right.

Isn't "Ghengis" a synonym?

flowerbee: Sure. The fanfic mods are showing themselves more.

Bikini!Dana Swimsuit!Herman Nekkid!-... I'd best stop there!

Arin: I'm not privy to that info. I'm willing to let that process go to its natural conclusion (or lack thereof) before forming an opinion on it. It may not be perfect, but it's certainly worth trying, IMO.

Agreed. I'm simply preempting the possibility that anyone might use it to try to clamp down on non-majority points of view...

Firke: aww, no Golden Ewok for that one?

It's too... sensible, I guess...

Have an Improbable Noghri?!

I mean, I haven't read PoT, but that's surely up there with Jabba/Leia, Jabba/Oola, and maybe a few others as Hutt/humanoid possibilities.

Jacen/Randa?

Callista/Beldorion makes sense too, seeing as she was his slave... then again, Dzym seemed to be snacking on 'em all in the Force...

Most of the interspecies arguments I've seen seem to go like this:

User: "Why can't I post [insert pairing (or more) here]?"
Mod: "It violates the interspecies rule."
U: "Why do we have an interspecies rule?"
M: "The owners set it down. If you want to post interspecies stuff, go elsewhere."
U: "Well, now my concern is that you let [multiple species pairing #1] but not mine. I want clarification on the rules."

It seems to end up more as a request for clarification in the rules instead of a request for changing the rules, and if dp's idea was implemented (which I'm apathetic about--as I hope I've established earlier, I'm not a fanficcer at all) that would end much of the drama over this (the same way it seems to have died down regarding slash).

Personally, I doubt it. The current problem is with hard-line unilateralism as it is... I have no doubt that the Mods could do this; it would just be dumb...

Let me summarize what I said to dp uptheway: the current rule wasn't set down by the owners, at least, if it was, they didn't have had the cojones to admit it properly. It was imposed, arbitrarily and unilaterally, by a single Mod, and replaced a previous, consensus-forged rule that there was no real problem with...

sidious: I have no problem with this rule. After all two different races like black/whites can't be together because they're way too different. I see the logic.

Oh, wait...



JadeSolo: I disagree with that hypothetical result, mainly because the EU works don't have obvious slash pairings in them (as far as I know?). They do, however, have obvious interspecies pairings.

This is true; while there are certainly slash references (Getelles/Larm and Caet/Tavira are the most obvious) there certainly isn't anything to compare with Lak/Dice, Winter/Ackbar, Asyr/Gavin, or the various less 'provocative' pairings (from Xizor/Guri to Force/Shmi) ...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Damnit, Ewok! How do you manage to do that to everything I say?

 

Bikini!Dana Swimsuit!Herman Nekkid!-... I'd best stop there!


LOL! Maybe that's what everyone is clammoring for, a mod swimsuit calandar.