Fan Fiction Writers as Poachers

It sounds sooooo stupid for that guy to say that girls only write romance, or guys only write action, or whatever. Or to say that only girls are fan fiction writers is down right stupid!

I am a girl, and yes, there is romance in my stories, but theres lots of other stuff to! Its not as if I ignor the action, fights, character or plot development and focus tottaly on romance! Ok, so maybe sometimes I put a little more romance in my stories then there are in the movies. But even GL has said part of the reason that there isen't more in the movies is because he doesn't want to scaire off the younger auidences.

And besides, if you look in the S.M.O.O.C.H thread, there are guys there as well as girls.

I have to wonder if this guy ever actualy read any real fan fiction, or if he did, very much. I know for a fact that he never read our stuff or he never would have said all that.

But sadly it is true that fan fic gets very little respect out side of fandom. Most people assume that we all are crazy fanatics that can't write. That is a compltely uninteligent assumption.

The fact that this guy is considered a expert proves that experts aren't all their cracked up to be. He's not a expert, he's a dumb nerfherder!

 

Actually, fanfic gets little respect in the greater world of fandom. Ah, well.

 

Thanks for replying all!

I actually sent a link of this thread to my teacher via email LOL, I figured she's be curious and/or slightly amused.

JediGaladriel: I think it's a misguided point. If fan fiction is defined as nothing more than using someone else's stories then Shakespeare, Ovid, and every single Roman author could be considered fanfic writers. Heck, the entirity of the postmodern movement (including Shakespeare in Love and Star Wars) would be fan fiction!

The community of Fan fiction, as you said, is a new phenomenon because in the modern world we have no concrete connection to mythology - no famous demigod will ever visit our villages - we have no shared stories to call our own.

It would be useful to remember the GL quote: "Star Wars is a modern day myth." If this is the case, how could we not use SW as a basis to share thoughts and experiences? In this day of patents, copy rights, and capitalism how could the populance not lean towards "nihilism?"

But then it does make you wonder if we're in the right, and everyone else lacks the ability to be part of a cohesive community the way the ancient societies used to. That would explian all the divorces, thearists, and depression in the modern day wrold.

If anybody ever decides to really explore fanfic authors, I would like to see this sort of deep cultural analysis. Maybe the question academia should ask is not the "why do these people write fanfics?" but "why doesn't everybody write them?"

 

If fan fiction is defined as nothing more than using someone else's stories then Shakespeare, Ovid, and every single Roman author could be considered fanfic writers. Heck, the entirity of the postmodern movement (including Shakespeare in Love and Star Wars) would be fan fiction!

In a broad sense, I would argue that this is the case -- fanfic is a natural outgrowth of human storytelling. We call it fanfic now, but it's been the way things have gone all along. A bard comes to town, tells a story of, say, King Arthur. Someone listening is enchanted, and re-tells that one, then adds on another one. Bingo, you have an organic story going. As you said, the question should be, why aren't people doing this? Just looking at folkloric history -- not to mention the play of children after hearing a story -- it seems to me to be the natural way people respond to stories.

Oh, sure, the answer is "Some companies get a little testy." (And their answer is, "Yeah, that's because some fan writers are so convinced we're going to steal their masterpieces that we have to pre-emptively nasty.") But it doesn't explain the attitudes against it.

 

But it doesn't explain the attitudes against it.

Good point. For the life of me, I could never figure out why fan fiction is such a taboo. The only thing I can figure is that it is some sort of hegemonic response.

 

Pallas Athena, thanks for answering my question. Being an older generation fan, I was wondering if a younger audience might be more accepting of the idea of Fan fic. I am sorry to hear that it is no different from the way my peers perceive me when they find out that I write genre fiction.

It is that very label of Fan that shuts off all objective thinking I believe. They imagine the geek in the Spock ears and refuse to look further.

Most of the writing friends I have, also write their own original material as well. The universe of Star Wars is actually a very good practice ground for learning writing skills. You can delve into so many areas. Humor, religion and philosophy, action, adventure, romance, angst, just about every type of human experience. I don't see how this is different from any other type of writing.

 

Maybe it's because some people just can't fathom that there are those who would write a story for FUN, and not to make money.

Kind of like the people who ask me "what in the heck are you going to do with a history degree?"

-Tim

 

I agree with the statement made earlier by Mariah about fanfic being an excellent practice ground. There are so many genres to explore within Star Wars. I think the fact that characters and settings have already been laid out for us is what appeals about fanfic.

I've worked on a number of non-fanfic stories and one of the biggest challenges is setting a backdrop. While writing fanfic, I don't need to give extensive histories of characters or planets. But this isn't to say I can't be creative. Since my start in fanfic, I've written so many different genres. Angst, romance, action, war, humor, it's given me a lot of oppurtunities.

I can also say that working on fanfic has drastically improved my writing for school and creative work. And since it's called FANfic, I highly doubt that any of us are writing it because we don't like what already exists. That man has obviously no idea at what fanfic is. He's extremely sexist and generalizing, because I have seen such a variety on TF.N at least. We have humor, romance, angst, action, short and long works, and everything and anything that is within the guidelines.

There is such a variety on these boards, not only concerning stories, but also authors. There's no reason to classify females as the writers of "romantic fantasy" because this community has so many different writers with different tastes. I sincerely hope that that man would get a more realistic version of fanfiction.

-Arna

 

I have to say, since actually knowing other fanfic writers (face-to-face) is rare and far between, the two other writers that I'm friends with, are, surprise, surprise, both guys. And one of them writes romance (btw I hate soap operas too). He isn't a SW fan though (writes JAG), but I just thought it interesting that Jerkins says that ff writing it strictly for females. Especially sci-fi writing. I mean, I don't know a whole lot of females that are that big on sci-fi. Usually when you think of SW (and Trekkies) fans, you think of a some little male nerd. Now I know what I just said is sexist and stereotypical, (I didn't mean to offend anyone) but it's more or less true. Stereotypes are everywhere and there's little people can do to get away from them. I just thought it weird that Jerkins would say sterotypically women are the fanfic writers while the majority of the population see men as the most avid of fans.

Now I know that that is changing (thank goodness) but it's going to take some time. I for one get odd looks sometimes from my friends when I'm writing. They don't seem to understand that I like to write and I like fiction and hence put them together. It's far better then going crazy with all the plot ideas running around in my head.

As for the whole fanfic writers being 'poachers' of other people's works, I think Jerkins needs to open his eyes and mind up a litte. (What happened to imitation being the highest form of flatter?) Fanfic writers are obviously not in it for the money (the varios disclaimers at the begging of the fics say that) and have no hope of their work getting off of computer sceens and into printed paper. And as for all the AU's and other spin-offs; I think this world would be a lot blander if it wasn't for creative minds. And creative minds can't, and most likely wouldn't, develop well if they didn't have a playground to experiment in. Think of all the things invented and thought up that, at the time, was thought impossible or ludicrous. Fandom is a place for the mind to have fun and be artistic. (Hmm, that might have been a bit much.)

It's been said already, but with fanfic, writers have a chance to do some work, have someone else read it and then give them pointers or tell them what they liked, and with no fee. I know personally, since I've started, that even if my writing hasn't gotten better, at least my spelling has.

And just so you know, I'm a female and out of my nine fics, only two have something that might be mistaken for romance in it. And in one of them is just kinda happened. It's not that I'm against it, I just can't write it. I'm more for the beat-'em-up-for-lots-of-anguish-followed-by-loads-of-mush kind of person with a plot thrown in. Or is it the other way around? Anyway, I just thought I'd give my two cents.

~Swede

 

Most of the writing friends I have, also write their own original material as well. The universe of Star Wars is actually a very good practice ground for learning writing skills.

That is so true. I am a writer myself, and that is my ambition in life. At present, I have three stories I am working on that I hope to take to a publisher when finished, ones that are my own ideas. However, I have problems with describing things. I tend to want to get on with the story.

Because of this, I write Star Wars fiction as practice material and material that I can get opinions on. The experience I have gained here has helped me so much that I have actually been inspired to start trying to write a publishable story, because even if it is not published, I will be able to get a start. Before I signed up 7 months ago, I was afraid to, and I have been writing since I was 8.

The problem is, most people can't respect that. They seem to think that fan fiction writers are either hopeless fanatics with no ambition in life, or they are unimaginative people who want to change what the author did because they didn't like it and can't think of their own ideas. Both are quite untrue, at leats as far as my experience, but I have run into several people who treat me like that the moment I mention that I write Star Wars fan fiction.

Unfortunately, it is not only the so-called "experts" who seem to feel this way.

My father is one of these people.

My mother seems to understand that I only do this for practice, but my father....disapproves.

He feels I am wasting my time, and often berates(sp?) me about SW FF to the point that I stopped telling him about it.

*sigh* There are so many people out there that have such a hard time with us. It greatly upsets me sometimes to be classified as a "weirdo" at school for what I do.....It's not the weirdo status that bothers me, it's the fact that they automatically classify me as that.

 

Being an older generation fan, I was wondering if a younger audience might be more accepting of the idea of Fan fic. I am sorry to hear that it is no different from the way my peers perceive me when they find out that I write genre fiction.

You'd think, esp. with the popularity of the internet now-a-days. I'm sure that every fanbase has grown, making even "the normalist seeming people" have access to what they wouldn't have before (I certainly never would have gotten underground fan magazines).

I find it interesting that (since most people I knew have a computer with internet access) most people could still be so disgusted by fan fiction. Some, like my roommate, spend hours a day chatting on im, or, like my best friend, play 3,000+ games of freecell. At least when I'm on the computer, I'm doing something benafical to myself and/or others.


Kind of like the people who ask me "what in the heck are you going to do with a history degree?"

LOL, Tim! Mine's: "What the heck are going to do with a classics degree?"

Answer:

1) "Degrade you in Latin ..."

0r

2) "I don't know, I have a few offers lined up ..."


Well, my teacher emailed me back. And the educational circle just wouldn't be complete if I didn't show you all.

Hi,
Certainly very interesting. Well, it's all a matter of different perspectives. What Jenkins said was what he saw and felt at that time, and what you see and feel can be different.There's no absolute right or wrong answer in this kind of cultural analysis. It's all discussion, debate, and negotiation to ultimately reach (hopefully) an evolution. Thanks very much for letting me know about this site. It seems to be really interesting.

Have a great weekend.


Hm, food for thought ...

 

LOL! Thats great! Wouldn't that be funny if your teacher started writing here to?

 

FanFic writers... Poachers... pffft. I guess this just goes to prove it's a natural human tendancy to attack something you don't understand.

 

I don't think Jenkins meant "poacher" particularly as an insult, just to state the self-evident fact that we are pitching our tents in someone else's backyard. Of course, I don't think he meant his attitude to come off as sexist, either -- I'm sure he thought he was being right gallant to the sweet things -- but he seems not to be one of the world's great communicators.

 

I definitely agree with those who have said that this guy is guilty of stereotyping. On the poaching issue, it's quite true that this is a practice as old as literature itself. I just wrote a paper on Plautus, an ancient Roman playwright who took all his stories from older Greek comedies, while modifying and adding elements to his own liking. He's considered one of the all-time greats. So I don't see how "poaching" is a big deal at all.

My experience with the gender issue is kind of interesting. It's clear that fan-fic writers are more likely to be female than male. When I first started writing fan-fic, however, I was completely unaware of this. In fact, [link=http://www1.theforce.net/forum/Archives/Archive-000005/HTML/19991017-9-000499.html]What If: The Empire Strikes Back - Skywalker Delivered to The Emperor[/link], the thread most responsible for giving me an interest in serious fan-fic writing, was a round-robin written almost entirely by male writers. It was one of the first non-humorous fan-fics on the JC fan-fic board (and it's kind of embarrassing to look back today at my very mediocre writing in some of the posts in the thread). The place sure has changed. I don't know if I would have been less likely to start writing here if it had been female-dominated from the start.

 

Hmm, I think "poaching" as a term is true, but Jenkins probably picked that exact word to be a bit harsh.

I had my class again this Wednesday and my teacher told the class what I did and, since I did it, I had to define Jenkins argument.

Jeff 42: Yep, Plautus was not unique in Rome, either. I wonder what Jenkins would say to that thread ... certainly all male writers on one of the earlist fics would quite undermind his argument.

A thread has just popped up on [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=6596692&replies=4]Lucas and fanfics[/link]. Jenkins said something interesting about LFL, but I don't have that book with me now I'll quote it as soon as I go back to school.

 

For the amusement before I sell the stupid book back -

"Lucasfilm initially sought to control Star Wars fan publications, seeing them as a rival to its officialy sponsored fan organization, and later threatened to prosecute editors who published works that violated the 'family values' associated with the orignal films. Such a scheme has met considerable resistance from the fan community that generally regards Lucas's actions as unwarranted interference in its own creative activity" (475)

 

Yeah, there's been something of an about-turn -- they mostly leave fan sites like TFN alone, and even hosted sites for awhile (and featured mine, which is 90% fan creativity). I think they'll still tend to go after the slash and smut sites periodically, but for the most part, they seem perfectly content to let other fan sites exist now, as long as they don't do things that are really damaging, like posting parts of the script before it was in the public sphere. If I were them, I'd interfere at that point, too. But as they keep a pretty good eye on TFN to make sure that such things don't happen, I'd guess that they are quite aware of the fanfic and aren't doing a thing about it.

 

This Jenkins guy sounds like a crock! If he's writing articles about what kinds of people write fan fic...well, he needs a REAL life!

Aren't there more productive things to do...?? Like writing fan fic?

Anywho, his statement about fan fic writers being mostly female is untrue from my experiences. In the recent past I've written for Marvel & X-Men fan fic sites, who are mostly made up of males. Now this may be related to the fact that comics are mostly a male dominated industry.

And I really don't believe in males writing better male characters, or females writing better female characters. It really depends on the skills of the writer.