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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Fans who grew up with the OT-Do any of you actually prefer the PT?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by IKilledSifo-Dyas, Aug 8, 2003.

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  1. beware_the_dark_side

    beware_the_dark_side Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 17, 2002
    You can think what you want LukeGroundwalker, but I challenge anyone who doesn't like AOTC to back and review the best scenes. This may be a stretch for some, but at least give it another chance. Check out:

    the speeder chase through the city, the clone facility and the Jango/Obi Wan fight, the droid foundry sequence, the asteroid chase, the arena battle (especially when the jedi arrive), the massive clone/droid battle and the lightsaber duels with Dooku.

    You don't see anything on the level of the clone war sequences in the OT, it just wasn't possible. The battle of Hoth was as close as they got, and that wasn't a large scale battle like the clone wars. And you gotta love Yoda breaking out the lightsaber, it doesn't get much better than that.
     
  2. SkottASkywalker

    SkottASkywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Fans who grew up with the OT-Do any of you actually prefer the PT?

    I'm 39 years old and I have been into STAR WARS since before the first time I saw STAR WARS in 1977 and I enjoy each STAR WARS Episode and each STAR WARS Trilogy and the STAR WARS Saga fully and equally. :cool:
     
  3. LukeGroundwalker

    LukeGroundwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2005
    No it is not that, AOTC has awful dialog and terrible acting. CGI and bigger wars cannot compare to great acting, better characters, better dialog, and a better plot. The Battle of Geonosis has to much CGI and it never gave me the experience of war, the Battle of Hoth gave me the experience of a war.
     
  4. classixboy

    classixboy Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    Fans who grew up with the OT-Do any of you actually prefer the PT?

    I am 31. I grew up with the original Star Wars.
    And I prefer the prequels.

    Anakin is a lot more interesting than Luke.
    I think the whole political dimension of the prequels is really rich and complex and compelling. And the prequels look fantastic. And they give me goosebumps the way the old movies don't (the only goosebump moment from the OT for me is when Luke sees Obi Wan get struck down by Vader).

    For the record, my favorites are, in order:
    Revenge of the Sith
    Attack of the Clones
    A New Hope
    Empire Strikes Back
    The Phantom Menace
    Return of the Jedi
     
  5. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Until ROTS came along, I'd say I didn't really have a preference in PT/OT. They were all films I enjoyed watching, albeit for different reasons-I've always been a history buff, so the PT was fun just for getting to see what led to the situations of the OT. The OT was fun in that it was still something of a history lesson, but was generally more action-filled, but, IMO, not quite as complex & engaging at the PT is/was.

    And then ROTS came along. I'm rather tempted to give it it's own special category. It's not the PT really, in that it captures and exceeds the blatant darkness of the OT, but it's not the OT either, as it's plotlines are considerably more complex. And it has more action than any of the others.


    It's clear to me that Lucas was more confident in creating the prequels than he was with the OT. Each of the first two films of the OT-TESB to a lesser extent, for obvious reasons-is capable of functioning alone if need be.

    None of the films from the prequels do, really. TPM is obviously setting things up for AOTC, and plotlines from both are largely resolved & continued through ROTS on the way to ANH.
    It seems to me that Lucas has done a splendid job of tying everything together.

    The main plotlines of the Saga:

    TPM

    The Chosen One's rise(begins)

    The return of the Sith(begins]

    The crumbling of the Republic(begins)

    The destruction of the Jedi(begins)

    Anakin & Padme(begins)

    AOTC

    The Chosen One's rise(continues)

    The return of the Sith(continues)

    The crumbling of the Republic(continues)

    The destruction of the Jedi(continues)

    Anakin & Padme(continues)

    The clone wars(begins)

    ROTS

    The Chosen One's fall(begins)

    The return of the Sith(continues)

    The crumbling of the Republic(finishes)

    The Destruction of the Jedi(ends)

    Anakin & Padme(ends)

    The clone wars(ends)

    The Empire & the Supremacy of the Sith(begins)

    The Galactic Civil War(begins)

    Anakin's Children(begins)

    ANH

    The Chosen One's fall(continues)

    The Galactic Civil War(continues)

    The Empire & the supremacy of the Sith(continues)

    The return of the Jedi(begins)

    Anakin's Children(continues)



    TESB

    The Chosen One's redemption(begins)

    The Galactic Civil War(continues)

    The return of the Jedi(continues)

    Anakin's Children[continues]

    The Empire and the Supremacy of the Sith(continues)

    ROTJ

    The Chosen One's redemption(ends)

    The Galactic Civil War(ends)

    The return of the Jedi(ends)

    The Empire and the Supremacy of the Sith(ends)

    Anakin's Children(continues)

    And in response to your question...there's the saga...good enough films...and then there is the masterwork called Revenge of the Sith.
     
  6. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    I think eventually, in a couple of years, the OT will be changed by George Lucas so much that they will be almost the same to new comers to Star Wars.

    Lucas has made some minor tweaks to the OT, as he has done throughout the OT's history. He might make a couple more. I don't see how that is "changing the OT so much" that it will seem like new movies.

    By the by, Lucas is not the first filmmaker to change his movies after they were released, nor will he be the last. That sort of thing is actually far more common than many people realize. Nor is it confined to movies. Tolkien made some fairly major changes to "The Hobbit" in order to make it fit in better with "The Lord of the Rings." W.H. Auden altered his earlier poetry to reflect his conversion to Christianity. T.S. Eliot made repeated changes to "The Waste Land."

    If it is so very important to have the so-called "original" OT movies (which weren't really the "originals" anyway) on DVD, there are ways of doing so. They might be expensive, but frankly, it seems to me that a person who can afford movie tickets, DVDs, an Internet connection, and various pieces of memorabilia, could probably find the cash somehow.
     
  7. LukeGroundwalker

    LukeGroundwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2005
    I am talking about to much CGI, I can imagine George changing the Battle of Hoth with CGI.
     
  8. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    I am talking about to much CGI, I can imagine George changing the Battle of Hoth with CGI.

    So what if he does?

    It may shock you to learn this, but a lot of modelwork and miniaturework was used in the prequels. Much more than in the OT, actually. So where is this "too much CGI"? What does "too much CGI" mean anyway? What is so awful about CGI? You're using and interacting with it right now, at this message board.

    It may also shock you to hear that the holy, sacred ESB was assailed for being "all about FX" in its day, that Lucas was more concerned with spectacle (such as the battle of Hoth) than with story.

    I also fail to see how CGI is the devil when stop-motion animation (such as was used in the battle of Hoth) is divine.
     
  9. LukeGroundwalker

    LukeGroundwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2005
    I don't recall Lucas using figures for the Battle of Geonosis, Battle of Coruscant, and Battle of Kashyyk. All of that was done with CGI. I don't really have a problem with CGI, I just don't like the over use of it. I wouldn't mind seeing the Battle of Hoth with CGI, but that is my opinion.
     
  10. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    I don't recall Lucas using figures for the Battle of Geonosis, Battle of Coruscant, and Battle of Kashyyk.

    Then your recollection is mistaken.

    All of that was done with CGI.

    No it wasn't. They did use CGI, yes, but they also used models and miniatures.

    I don't really have a problem with CGI,

    Then why are you complaining about it?

    I just don't like the over use of it.

    What is "overuse" of it?

    I wouldn't mind seeing the Battle of Hoth with CGI,

    But you indicated above that you didn't want Lucas to put CGI in it.
     
  11. LukeGroundwalker

    LukeGroundwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2005
    No I said this.
    I never said I didn't want the Battle of Hoth with CGI, you are just putting words in my mouth. And no Lucas has never used figures with the Clone Wars battles, if you say he did then you must be very ignorant. All of those battles were done with CGI, please don't say something when you don't even know what you are talking about. And I hate the over use of CGI, not CGI itself. Look at Episode II, every scene has CGI in it.
     
  12. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    I never said I didn't want the Battle of Hoth with CGI, you are just putting words in my mouth.

    Actually, I'm trying to figure out what it is you're complaining about because you keep contradicting yourself.

    And no Lucas has never used figures with the Clone Wars battles,

    Lucas didn't make the CW battles himself, that's what his FX people are for. And yes they used "figures," as you put it.

    if you say he did then you must be very ignorant. All of those battles were done with CGI, please don't say something when you don't even know what you are talking about.

    Actually, that statement should be directed at you.

    And I hate the over use of CGI,

    Again, what is "overuse of CGI"?

    not CGI itself. Look at Episode II, every scene has CGI in it.

    Uh...yeah. "I don't hate CGI, I just hate overuse of CGI. But look at AOTC, every scene has CGI in it."

    I'm still trying to figure out what it is you're complaining about.
     
  13. LukeGroundwalker

    LukeGroundwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2005
    What?:confused: You can't be serious, when did I contridict myself. Look the over use of CGI, is pretty self explainitory. If you don't know what over use means then you haven't been out much. [sarcasm]Lets see over use, over use, lets see, HMMMMMMMMMMMM! [face_idea] I got it, I can't believe it was so simple, over use is when you over use something. WOW![/sarcasm]

    And all of the battles of the prequels were made with CGI. [sarcasm]You know, CGI, you ever heard of it?[/sarcasm] Watch the extra stuff on the DVD of Star Wars Episode II, yah! All of the battles were made with CGI.
     
  14. Tathlyn_Vrinn

    Tathlyn_Vrinn Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2002
    I'm 31 and hate to stick it to those who feel Lucas raped their childhood(you know who you are), but I like the Prequels way more than the originals--something I never thought I say, especially after TPM. Just the other day I went to see ROTS again (for the 6th time), then popped in ANH in the DVD player when I got home, and something just felt wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it, but whatever "magic" that I got out the originals growing up was kinda there and kinda wasn't. I don't know if it's the things going on right now in my life(very good) or what, but 4-6 seem a little empty to me now. ROTS was just that damned good, and can't wait for the DVD.

    That being said ANH is still in my top 3, since it started it all.

    1. ROTS(encompassed all good things from SW, and the Clone Wars helped out whole a lot. Ewan and Ian are the shining stars(acting wise) in the whole series).
    2. AOTC(so it didn't have the good guys constantly neck-deep in an imperial sharktank--big f'n deal!! This film broke the stereotypical formula of a SW movie, and that's why I like it. My only complaints were Padme not showing any emotion when Ani confessed to killed a whole village, and it would've been nice if Mace got to fight Dooku before he took off).
    3. ANH(before the prequels, I was on the "ESB rules" train, but in 1977 ANH was centerpiece of my childhood--and ROTS is the new "darker tones" sheriff in town.)
    4. ESB
    5. (tie)ROTJ/TPM(both have great saber fights(TPM and ROTS had the best saber fights in the series), both have great jedi burning funerals, but the "cute and cuddly" factor hurt both and did nothing for the over all story. Both are really boring until the end, and both had great villains who died too fast-Darth Maul and Boba Fett--you see why I give them low ranks?)
     
  15. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    What? You can't be serious, when did I contridict myself. Look the over use of CGI, is pretty self explainitory. If you don't know what over use means then you haven't been out much. [sarcasm]Lets see over use, over use, lets see, HMMMMMMMMMMMM! I got it, I can't believe it was so simple, over use is when you over use something. WOW![/sarcasm]

    And all of the battles of the prequels were made with CGI. [sarcasm]You know, CGI, you ever heard of it?[/sarcasm] Watch the extra stuff on the DVD of Star Wars Episode II, yah! All of the battles were made with CGI.


    Uh...yeah.
     
  16. jedi_master_ousley

    jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2002
    She was asking at what point you would draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable amounts of CGI use.

    Models were used throughout the prequels. Moreso than you would like to admit.
     
  17. DS615

    DS615 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2003
    Model sets were used, yes.
    Miniatures and models were not used for vehicles, Genosians, Yoda, Kaminoans, Dexter, TF droids, or clones.

    Models weren't used nearly as much as you imply.

     
  18. classixboy

    classixboy Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    Right on!!!

    I am 31 too, btw. And your ranking of the movies is nearly the same as mine -- but I put TPM over ROTJ (ewoks=lame).
     
  19. LukeGroundwalker

    LukeGroundwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Thank you.
     
  20. Warrior_of_Mandalore

    Warrior_of_Mandalore Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2003
    One of the things I loved about the originals was the little references. The things like "Clone Wars," "Kessel Run," "Boba Fett," "Ord Mantell," "Dantooine," "The Senate," etc. These random words are used casually and never fully explained. I felt that such references make it seem as if we are just dipping our toes into a world so complicated it can never be fully explained.

    Then the prequels had to go and explain everything. For me, it went from being open and epic and complicated, to being small and self contained.

    Warrior_of_Mandalore Strikes Again!
     
  21. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    Model sets were used, yes.
    Miniatures and models were not used for vehicles, Genosians, Yoda, Kaminoans,


    The Kaminoans were live actors, with CGI laid over them.

    Dexter,

    Dexter was a live actor, with CGI laid over him.

    TF droids,

    Models most certainly WERE used for TF droids.

    or clones.

    Models weren't used nearly as much as you imply.


    And CGI wasn't used nearly as much as either you or LukeGroundwalker claim.

    One of the things I loved about the originals was the little references. The things like "Clone Wars," "Kessel Run," "Boba Fett," "Ord Mantell," "Dantooine," "The Senate," etc. These random words are used casually and never fully explained. I felt that such references make it seem as if we are just dipping our toes into a world so complicated it can never be fully explained.

    Then the prequels had to go and explain everything. For me, it went from being open and epic and complicated, to being small and self contained.


    "Explain everything"? The prequels "explained" Boba Fett, I suppose, and they portrayed the Senate and the Clone Wars. Pray tell, how did they "explain everything"?
     
  22. LukeGroundwalker

    LukeGroundwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2005
    LOL, I can't believe this, CGI was used in every scene in Episode II, so I would say that is a over use of CGI.
     
  23. ROTS_Obi1

    ROTS_Obi1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    LOL, I can't believe this, CGI was used in every scene in Episode II, so I would say that is a over use of CGI.




    Well, DUR! How else are they going to make a GFFA, in 2002? Guess what the OT had a matte painting on a lot of fricking scenes too. How else are they going to make the Clone Wars, with matte paintings and stop motion animation? We are not in the 80's anymore, as you fail to see. Would you rather want dexster in a little rubber suit? I sure hope not.

    And did you know Kashyyyk was a giant model? As was the whole Geonosis battle arena? Do you own the Episode II Dvd? Reel 6 anyone?
     
  24. LukeGroundwalker

    LukeGroundwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2005
    I never said it wasn't, I was talking about minatures, you know what minatures are, right? They never used a model minature of the Jedi Starfighter in the Battle of Coruscant, they used CGI. And to much CGI, looks ugly, no matter what someone says. I can understand the use of CGI but George abused it, and he put to much of it in the Prequels.
     
  25. jedi_master_ousley

    jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2002
    I think it looks beautiful, no matter what someone says.

    See where this is going?
     
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