Lit Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread

Changing the subject, I wonder if we will see Streen and Kirana Ti's jedi praxeum on Dathomir, it would be a nice nod to what is already established.

By the way, does anyone know how long is backlash going to be? The number differs from 256 to 356 depending on where you look

 

I hope we get to see Streen and Kirana Ti themselves. Kirana Ti has appeared in about 2 DR novels (and her name is spelt wrong in one of them) and Streen's been off the radar since the end of NJO. I mean, I like the Masters that get used but would it kill the authors to remember these guys?

 

I was hoping to see the Dathomir Praxeum back when we first found out it was set on Dathomir too. Someone pointed out that apparently it got evacuated during LOTF though. The Jedi are back on Coruscant though (and Ossus yet?) so I'd like it if they'd returned to Dathomir too.

 

Streen actually appeared in Inferno at Mara Jade's funeral.

But Kirana Ti has been off the charts for a long time. Now that Del Rey has brougt back characters like Boba, Daala, Callista (apparently), it would be nice to see those two jedi again.

 

I'm going to point out Thrawn's theory that Kyp and Jaina had a torrid relationship in the times between Hapes and Borleis that only stopped because Han and Leia were severely disappointed in it. Ask him for the whole wording, it's quite good and definitely believable. Other than that I'm guessing she only had a few one-night stands during the years between NJO and Dark Nest, used Zekk during, and then swore off of it and focused on jediing and piloting for the next 4 years until Jag came and helped them in LOTF. There the relationship they had in NJO was rekindled.

 

This is just in from Sue Rostoni on the boards at SW.com

"I don't know that we've determined yet when ALLIES takes place, but I suppose it could be roughly a half-year past BACKLASH."

Personally, I don't know if that's a good idea. We have essentially three major plotlines going on in this series - Luke and Ben retracing Jacen's steps to find out what happened to him, the Jedi Order dealing with the younger members suffering from Force psychosis, and the major political plan of trying to reestablish ties with the members that broke away in the LOTF. Tahiri, Jaina-Jag romance, Daala vs. Jedi Council are important, but they're tied in to the three that I mentioned, and they're in the forefront. Now if there's a six-month skip, then the authors, presumably starting with Christine Golden are tasked with trying to provide good "fillers" to fill in the gaps for each respective plotlines.

Conceivably, Luke's and Ben's plotline could be the easiest among them. Jacen mentioned in TUF that he planned on visiting the Jensaarai and the Theran Listeners. He also visited the Fallanassi in TJK. Luke knew about these traditions. He visited them in one fashon or another. He learned from the Theran Listeners and the Fallanassi, while he probably integrated some of the Jensaarai techniques into his curriculum. So I could see the authors saying that during the six-month gap, Luke went back to Dathomir to learn what Jacen did there, then went to the three traditions I mentioned to do the same. But he didn't learn anything new from them like he had from the Baran Do sages and the Aing-Tii monks. Would that be enough to cover the six-month gap? Maybe, maybe not.

As for the others, they're probably going to be harder because of the other plotlines that are attached to them.

 

I hope they are not doing this just to age Ben faster so that he can have more romance... while this sounds like they scrapped their original plans for the series and changed them in the middle of the story (like with NJO, like with LOTF *rolls eyes* ) to fit some fan wishes or not risk something new and good. D'oh.

But fillers might also be good:

1- space for tie in novels like Crosscurrent Sequel and others, hopefully something "Blood Oath"-esque finally
2- they might skip Jaina's pregnancy impregnation in Backlash (fitting title then) and a few books after Allies it rains twins
3- Backlash might start many new plotlines and prematurely end others we thought will run through till the end. Actually I think that might be a good surprise. Force Psychosis ended? Daala/Jedi conflict over? make room for Sith and Jedi as allies in ALLIES which will spark new troubles like public not trusting the Jedi once again, Daala has a new reason to move against them. or maybe public opinion chooses the Kesh Sith over the Jedi as their protectors because they proove more useful doing what Jedi would not do? maybe meanwhile the Jedi then let the galaxy have their good sith and concentrate on Abeloth. yet in the end both orders fail after half a year... sith need jedi to keep galaxy in order and Jedi need sith to defeat abeloth. kinda funny.
maybe we even get the missing fleet action and the "next galactic war" but on a much smaller scale?
maybe the socalled Imposters will finally show up for real?
What if an army of force psychosis Jedi and Sith alike defend Abeloth against the "imposters" attacking her? could a Jedi kill his well known brother, friend or relative when he has to? even if force psychosis could maybe be healed a few books later, the situation demands it? (well.. Jaina can kill anybody.. she is a coldblooded bitch... but to me she is not a true Jedi since she became the sword)

 

^...wow


Two adults in an adult relationship....and now they are engaged....of course they've had sex. Plus, we have force-sensitive Fels in the Legacy comics. This isn't Sesame Street.

 

I think it's confirmed that it's still closed down, no Jedi on Dathomir during FOTJ.

It's not a 6 month skip, it's jsut the first 3-4 books take place over 6 months. It's not 6 months after ABYSS, it's 6 months after BACKLASH.

 

That's what I said. Outcast, Omen, Abyss, and Backlash occur one after another. Then we jump ahead six months in the EU and start with Allies.

 

Wow, I seriously misread that quote, thought she said Backlash takes place 6 months after Outcast. Don't know how I did that. Sorry, nevermind.

 

A lot of that depends on Backlash. You can look at DN for a good example of how mid-series jumps can work -- you have TJK, with the action in that book basically wrapping up by the end, then TUQ about a year later with the problem from TJK reemerging, and then a monthslong gap between TUQ and TSW as things escalate but nothing major happens.

Or, you know, the movies. ANH, then three years of the Rebels running around and everyone falling into their roles, but nothing major that demands coverage for the big-picture story, then TESB, and then a year of looking for Han and doing miscellaneous stuff before ROTJ pays it all off.

Let's say Backlash leaves us in a position where Vestara gets away and the Jedi pull back to Shedu Maad. It would be very easy to come back in six months later, and say that the Jedi have been staying in Hapes, and more have gone mad, and tensions are growing with Daala but it's basically a standoff as the Jedi are contained and Daala's not going to invade the Consortium right off the bat. And then either Luke and Ben lost Vestara's trail and they went back to visiting groups but got no more big clues, or one clue we can review, or else they've been in hot pursuit for six months, tearing back and forth across the galaxy, but they've never managed to catch her.

There's no reason at the moment to think this is something that's not going to work.

 

lol

Maybe you should actually check first to what text I was replying to so you won't write stupid comments like the one you did.

 

True. But Dark Horse, Marvel, Bantam, and Del Rey have gone ahead and filled in the time gaps between the movies. I forgot about the DNT, and I have yet to read it, but I'm assuming we got a gist of what happened during the year between TJK and TUQ. It all comes down to the authors.

 

Gaps are good. I like gaps. More stuff to fill in. Makes "Galactic Civil Wars" actually feel long enough to be, you know, galactic.

It is a bit weird that GCW2 didn't get a gap (and it's the sort of thing that could have been fleshed out with nice new X-Wing books and that type of thing) but that the great Abel'thul is going to, but oh well. I like Abeloth, so I'm not complaining. If it makes her seem like more than Dark Jedi of the Month, then that's AOK with me.

And Abel'thul... I have just realised... Abel. I'm calling it now. Abeloth is Halagad Ventor.

 

and Halagad Ventor is just another name for Cronal again! and Ben Skywalker will defeat her/him/IT by pulling Anakin Solos saber from the tree... and then found the Imperial Knights but leave them later to infiltrate the Jedi Order... but stuck there because of a random love interest with red hair that tries to kill him.

 

A time jump might've helped LotF's story, but the war in that series was pretty pitiful already- a few dozen planets (very developed powerful planets, but still) against the GA? Inferno, for its flaws, at least showed the Confederation trying to take Coruscant fast as it couldn't survive a prolonged war. Heck, after Inferno, the war spiraled into irrelevance. Sure, there were battles in Fury and Revelation, but those were against singular planets/systems. Not sure any of those planets were even mentioned in Invincible....

Has the Unification Summit even been mentioned in non-Allston books? I honestly can't remember, but on the one hand I hope they remember to show it in other books. On the other, I don't expect that much cohesion, especially with all the other plots they've already got going. I don't mind a time jump, especially if Luke and Ben are still in transit traveling around the galaxy, but after three books, not much has happened, so a time jump might hurt more than it hurts- it'd be really stupid if more happened off-screen than on-screen. Abyss finally had some progress on the mad Jedi front, but the politics plot is still moving slowly with no end in sight, though the Abeltoh plot might take off soon, as well as the Sith plot. Just as long as they don't sideline Luke again. I just wish his NJO could show it could operate without him at the head, but sadly, doesn't seem like it so far. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by the next three books... but not expecting much.

 

The full blurb for Allies is finally up. It's pretty much what we've expected.

What began as a quest for truth has become a struggle for survival for Luke Skywalker and his son, Ben. They have used the secrets of the Mindwalkers to transcend their own bodies and speak with the spirits of the fallen, risking their very lives in the process. They have faced a team of Sith assassins and beaten the odds to destroy them. And now the death squad?s sole survivor, Sith apprentice Vestara Khai, has summoned an entire fleet of Sith frigates to engage the embattled father and son. But the dark warriors come bearing a surprising proposition that will bring Jedi and Sith together in an unprecedented alliance against an evil more ancient and alien than they can imagine.

While the Skywalkers and their Sith allies set off on their joint mission into the treacherous web of black holes that is the Maw, Han and Leia Solo risk arrest and worse to aid the Jedi imprisoned back on Coruscant. Tyrannical Chief of State Natasi Daala has issued orders that will open a permanent schism between her government and the Jedi Order?a schism that could turn all Jedi into renegades and wanted criminals.

But it is in the depths of the Maw that the future of the galaxy will be decided. For there the Skywalkers and their Sith allies will engage a true monster in battle, and Luke will come face-to-face with a staggering truth.

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780345509147

 

Interesting...

First, I know it's been said before, but yes!!! My prediction came true, there will be a Jedi-Sith Alliance! I which side proposes the alliance, it sounds like the Sith (and particularly Vestara) do from the blurb, which is interesting.

Seems like the journey to different Force cultures has ended.

I think Han and Leia will finally be arrested.

I'm guessing they delivered the other Jedi to Hapes successfully? Is it just the Horn children who are still imprisoned on Coruscant?

Don't like the word "tyrannical" to describe Daala. I hope the situation is more gray, so the ultimate solution isn't to just overthrow the Chief of State yet again.

Where are Jaina and Jag in these blurbs?

It does look like the Jedi may be in need of a refuge on Bastion soon. Although I think they still have Shedu Maad, thanks to Tenel Ka.

Will Zekk and/or Tenel Ka finally make an appearance?

How in the world do the Skywalkers and the Sith plan on "battling" or even attacking Abeloth??? I'm thinking this will end in disaster.

What truth will Luke be confronted with? That's he might die battling Abeloth?

 

Interesting... it was all largely as has been predicted at some point or another, but very nice to see the words "staggering truth".

Hold on... is this the book that's going to have Callista in it? If so, then I wouldn't be surprised if it merely turns out to be be "OMG! She's still alive!" or something similarly anticlimactic compared to all the truly shocking ideas we could consider.

That someone needs to die to defeat her is what I've been hoping for though, so for Luke and Ben to learn that someone must sacrifice themselves would be a welcome development to me. Not that they seem willing to kill Luke off, but I'd like them to at least toy with people by having him put himself forward to do it... only for someone else to jump in at the last minute in the final book. I'd like them to at least start preparing the casual readership for the inevitable though by actually teasing with the idea for a few books.

Still, the Callista thing wouldn't surprise me.

Uncertain how I'd prefer someone needing to die to go... simply that to seal a wound in the Force you need something (i.e. someone's spirit) to plug it up? Or perhaps not quite so finite and it be one of those "There must always be an Abeloth" type things, where someone needs to become the new Lich King to sit atop the throne in the Maw no matter what they do to her?

I'd still like one of the Sith to be the one to finally do the deed though, i.e. Luke volunteers, but that at the last minute Ben gets cold feet over not wanting to lose his dad too, and while they're having their final father-son chit-chat one of the Sith just thinks "This is why you Jedi never get anything done" and does it instead. In effect, I'd either like to see the Kesh people semi-redeemed a la the Jensaarai, or else just see Ben grow up not hating every single Sith and wanting to murder them for what one did to his mother, but for him to realise they are people too. So a Vader-taking-out-Palpatine-at-the-last-moment scene.

Hmm... having said all this, it also occurs to me that this shocking discovery could go back to the "What did Jacen do?" questline and be some revelation about how exactly he was the one who caused Abeloth to awaken. The Throne of Balance vision still didn't seem to Luke to be the last answer in the question of why Jacen fell, so there may well be more of Jacen's path in the Maw for him to retread.

Final thoughts? I sure hope having this fleet of frigates attack Abeloth achieves nothing. I don't want to see Cthulu degraded to a fleet battle.

 

I'm not sure how a Sith sacrificing themselves would really work. I mean, Sith generally only think of their own well being. They can't detach themselves from everything like that. This is the exact type of act that they scoff at the Jedi for. Self-sacrifice is an asinine concept to them. I?m not saying that this is an impossible direction for the plot to go in; just that I can?t conceivably think of a way for it to work.

 

Redeemed or not, Vader did. Rather than use his last energy to blast Jaina one final time, Caedus chose to reach out and warn Allana. Not all Sith use their final breaths to make some vain pointless last attack. Some actually act human, and the Keshians aren't descended from Bane, they're descended from a group of normal people who just genuinely thought the Sith Empire was a force for justice. The footsoldier isn't the baby eating general in charge, and Korsin was the footsoldier not Naga Sadow.

Only Sith deal in absolutes. That's the point I'm getting at: that seeing a Sith not do what Ben expects a Sith to do would be a lesson to him. Right now though, he's stuck in "Sith murdered my mother!" and is stuck fighting this very paradox: the impossibility of believing there could ever to be a person, not some cardboard cut-out cliché Sith who all must act exactly the same, who would do something unexpected. Thinking all Sith are exactly the same is the pathway to becoming one: see Jacen Solo when Lumiya shattered his preconceptions.

Or, to put it another way: the Sith parallel to Cade Skywalker as a Jedi.

Being born on Kesh doesn't make someone evil. Being evil makes someone evil. Nothing is to say someone on Kesh won't not be evil.

...there are going to be light side anti-establishment "Sith" in TOR after all.

Why do I want this though? Because I know they don't have the balls to kill Luke off. And if it's not Luke, I want it to be something that'll have some lasting value, not just "random Jedi [coughCallistacough] comes out of nowhere to save the day". Been there, done that, far too many times. I want to see something different for a change, not just yet another third rate background character be the one to sacrifice themselves. If it can't be Luke, I want them to do something beyond the norm. Instead of Luke sacrifice himself to save Ben, have Gavar sacrifice his life to save Vestara, or something along those lines.

This will also probably be the first time a group of Sith have had to face up to the truth that they are not the greatest power in the galaxy. Usually, the Dark Lord thinks he's the top dog. This time? Not the case. Here Abeloth is the force that will destroy them all, which puts the Sith in a position that is utterly alien to them when all they're normally doing is fighting the Jedi.

 

Lately, unfortunately, I'm afraid it is.

 

Honestly, at least in regards to the politics plot-line, I think you're over-analyzing it. Its not like FotJ's politics plot has had any subtlety to it so far, any room for "gray". The Jedi are good (though somewhat ineffective with Luke out on his trip) while the GA is being over-bearing with a former Imp warlord at the top.

So, Jedi will be on the run with the GA wanting to arrest them? Hm, this sounds sorta familiar... oh wait, didn't they just do that in LotF? Not to mention I'm mostly sure there were arrest warrants for Luke at least at one point during the NJO. And considering how Daala's acted so far, tyrannical seems pretty accurate to me. She hasn't declared herself Empress yet, but at least to the Jedi she's acted very vindictive. There's the whole Tahiri thing as well as hanging carbon-frozen Jedi kids as trophies.

While it is possible to be anti-Jedi and still be a sorta virtuous person... remember, Daala's been breaking rules left and right to get to the Jedi, and its only going to escalate as the Jedi keep resisting being forcefully incorporated to the GA hierarchy. The crazy Jedi rampages aren't helping, but they're mainly a convenient excuse to clamp down on the Jedi. I doubt she can be reasoned with (at least not in good faith), so the longer that plot line is dragged out, the more stupid it gets. Although considering how her administration started, that was already pretty stupid.

Heck, even the Allies summary sorta acknowledges how unimportant that plot is when it says the "future of the galaxy" (they should trademark that phrase by now) will be decided in the Maw. Not too many surprises in that blurb, aside from confirming that of course Luke and Ben don't catch Vestara in Backlash. Fleet of Sith frigates? Wonder if it'll be the same small fleet we saw in Omen or whether they've expanded since then. Hm, not sure who I'd prefer to offer the alliance. On the one hand, I'd prefer it for Luke to start it, as, well, he's Luke, so something diplomatic seems like him. Or mabye they'll let Ben do it, since he's young.

It might be interesting for the Sith to know enough about Abeloth to understand that she's a bigger threat, requiring allies... but then it comes down to how much they scheme while they're allied. Although these Sith were already pretty watered-down from most Sith (although they're still more impressive than Caedus, but that's not difficult to pull off), but still that plot could be almost good.

The shocking truth, hm... well, that's too vague to really make any sort of semi-accurate guess, even. Just hope this book doesn't end on a huge cliffhanger, but oh well, we'll see in a few months.