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Lit Fate of the Jedi issues...

Discussion in 'Literature' started by OutsiderJediSam, May 29, 2018.

  1. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    didn't think about it being that.....but how would Jysella have learned it? I thought that was basically a Jacen skill from a different Force sect??? and he intentionally used it when he did, Jysella just uses it accidentally?, more than anything it's convenient which is stupid, still doesn't really help explain all the other idiocy on how she escaped though
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  2. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Um, the book very specifically tells us that Jysella was using flow walking - within the same chapter if not scene?

    ... and the entire issue is that these Jedi go mad and exhibit a Force skill Jacen had, but he would never have had the opportunity to teach them. Seff has stasis, Valin has the mind scan block and now Jysella has flow walking.

    The question being - what did Caedus do?




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  3. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    • it def. does not tell us it's flow walking, I get it "could be" after being told it is, but the book makes no indication it is, and def. not that she intentionally does it, it's treated as Jysella has no idea what's going on, and wait, she sees the future anyway, is that flow walking also, bc Jacen used it to go to the past.....it says she guessed on the location of the droids in the columns she didn't use flow walking to see where they were placed
    • if Jacen could use it to go to future, why did he never use it to change outcomes in LOTF
    • if it can't change outcomes, then what use is it to Jysella, she would have done what she did anyway somehow magically w/o the knowledge of what the future gave her
    • if all it is is a Force premonition of the future, that's fine since Jedi have them, but it's awfully convenient in this situation is all I'm saying
    • point conceded on it supposed to be another link to Jacen
    • I really don't see how any of this is gonna link to Jacen since he was absent during TDN, and away from the Jedi during LOTF, unless there is a retcon, but that will take more reading I know
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    One of Jacen's Aing Tii learned abilities was called fighting sight. As I understand it was a limited form of flowwalking/premonition were a duelist would see the duel unfolding as they were fighting it.

    In essence they could see the future of the duel just before it was happening and respond accordingly.

    Duelist with fighting sight is engaging duelist who doesn't have it-duelist uses sight to see second duelists attacks and his own for the next ten minutes of the duel.

    It's either an extremely advanced form of combat precognition or flow walking esque observational time travel.

    Or some combination therof. That's how I understood it.

    Maybe that's the power Jysella is using
     
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  5. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Jacen said he could not flow walk forward a few times, because the future was too divided. In Inferno he could go no further than Kuat; in Invincible he was constantly blocked by Luke.

    But yeah, it’s an odd usage by Jysella.


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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  6. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    my only other complaint about it is this then.....in LOTF any and all of these abilities were treated as way special since ONLY super powered and super trained and "a Skywalker" Jacen could do them, so it seems like a jump in power levels/unspecializing Jacen to now have all of these other "regular" Jedi suddenly get them too....seems like another retcon.....and we all know how we feel about retcons.....

    oh and after the Jedi don't stop her....immediately the GFFA do, great job there Jedi!!! no wonder the galaxy dislike them, the Jedi are very bad at w/e they decide to do.....(letting Valin escape last book, recapturing Valin last book, Jaina's mission last book, now this)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  7. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I don't think these abilities are special only because Jacen or a Skywalker can use them-it's just they are unconventional abilities taught by non Jedi non Sith force using groups. Such as the Aing Tii or Baran Do
     
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  8. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    another chapter, same story....why, just why do the authors make every thing the good guys do fail in some way? do they not think that harms the characters?

    1) Jaina's and Jag's doubles are found out almost immediately....that makes the whole point of a double pointless...(I know they still got away for their "rendezvous" but still)....the fact the doubles didn't even keep the charade up more than a little while really hurts the concept of them being credible....also jw, if the one employee took a credcard to help the journalist, why would the rest of the staff help Jaina/Jag, or why didn't that employee tell the journalist what was up???

    also I know this is just me being moralistic, bc I am, sorry, but why do we want to input sex outside of marriage into SW, I mean it really never was in the past, then in TDN it came out of nowhere and now with this...

    1) Jaina and Jag "rendezvous"
    2) and Han and Leia spooning....I mean I get they're a married couple in bed, but really what did that term add to anything???? they were just having a conversation.....

    also, what a boring chapter.....did I just read a chapter on Jaina and Jag having friends help them slip away for a mission that was just to spend a night together and then Han/Leia discuss taking Allana to a pet exhibit???? probably the most legit day to day life issues chapter in SW history but totally unimportant for this SW story
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    The employee was in on it, and sold the journalist a seat to sell the deception, I took it as.


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  10. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Sex out of marriage probably happens IU all the time it's just not something we see the main characters engage in until the NJO-because I believe it's strongly implied Jag and Jaina have sex throughout their courtship in the late NJO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  11. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 9, 2007
    Because they're trying to be grim and gritty and adult, hence Jaina and Jag's "advanced" relationship. Angst and failure is what its all about these days (for example the sequels). Personally I think its really stupid, or rather too much information in Del Rey's case (some of this was popping up in NJO already and has just gotten worse since then), but that's FotJ (and some of modern Star Wars) for you. Its not that I'm against the idea necessarily, I just feel mentioning that kind of thing is a bit irrelevant to the narrative, or at least to Star Wars.

    And you're starting to see the early signs of some of FotJ's major problems. If the good guys were half as competent as they should be, well, the series would only be six books at most (if not three), and that would have meant less money for them. It wasn't quite as bad as in NJO and LotF, since here the main plot is still getting started up, so instead you get filler chapters.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  12. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    1) I'm saddened Lucasfilm (if they're in charge of books) cares that little about the fans, that they're fine with "bad" writing just to maximize money....they could go for both
    2) I'm saddened authors care that little about they're own writing....I would think the writers would want more than a paycheck bc these issues are evident and I believe the authors have to see it too, they realize they're making the good guys incompetent or writing "filler"
     
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  13. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 5, 2017
    Please, Zekk and Jaina, and Jagged and Jaina were clearly ****ing like space rabbits throughout the NJO.
     
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  14. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    poor Zekk, just lost at the end of Invincible, no mention at all yet in FOTJ.....guess no one cares about him
     
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  15. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Blood Oath would have covered this but was canceled
     
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  16. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 9, 2007
    There were apparently plans for a post-Invincible book starring Zekk (and those Hapan cousins of Tenel Ka), I think it was called Blood Oath. Something like that, but the plans fell through

    Well, for Lucasfilm and Del Rey it is a business. I would say the writers do care about what they're writing, but they're under pressure too, to produce a decent length book in a certain amount of time. For most or all of them, its not just a job, they like Star Wars too, I just disagree with several of their interpretations of what is a "proper" Star Wars story.

    And they try to come up with something to fill the space, but often times it falls short. Like even Allston, we all love Wedge, but I felt his appearance in Outcast was contrived. "Oh no, Kessel is in danger, and instead of calling for GA help, because, well, Daala, ha ha, instead we need a bunch of skilled pilots to fly starfighters through a difficult course and drop off things that will save Kessel. Now where are we going to get a bunch of great starfighter pilots with nothing better to do? Time for another Rogue Squadron veterans reunion!". Rather than actually develop what the actual present GA Rogue Squadron looks like.

    The underlying problem is that to tell a "galactic epic" requires time and preparation, instead of this obsession with imitating the OT as much as possible, with an underdog group against the big galactic empire thing (similar to the sequels). Like when NJO started out, the galaxy was at peace as the good guys had won. Then half the NJO was seeing them losing the galaxy to the Vong, then gradually gaining ground back. LotF also started out with a time of peace, but they skipped the Vong conquest part to just have Jacen take over by way of legal droid (which was stupid) then they skipped a happy ending (and I would not call Invincible a happy ending) to hand galactic power to Daala out of nowhere.

    You've reached Omen by now, right? So here the books are rushing to come up with a decent action threat to Luke Skywalker and the NJO (as Daala and GAG, er, GAS mooks aren't going to cut it really, nor are some young crazy Jedi), which is why they decide to add a planet full of Sith who have sat out the last five thousand years to come up with a new army for the Jedi to fight. Which I just find depressing. Great, of all things, a planet of Sith are found and let loose on the galaxy. Couldn't have been some lost Jedi, no, gotta be more Sith. Might as well have some random species called the Vuuzhan Yong show up out of nowhere who really hate lightsabers. The Legacy comics gave their big bad decades to build up his army, the novels, not so much.

    One sad thing about FotJ is that there are glimmers of good ideas. Like way back I think I liked the idea of Luke visiting the various Force sects around the galaxy and picking up a few things. Too bad Mara isn't still around or it could have made for a nice Skywalker family road trip. Instead, well, they came up with a lame excuse to kick Luke off Coruscant, and it seems like he took all the brains with him when he left as not much interesting stuff happens on Coruscant in the meantime.
     
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  17. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Abyss covers this.


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  18. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Regarding Jag and Jaina-apparently there were discussions to have them get married at the end of Invincible after Jaina killed Jacen.

    This would have made Jaina into an extremely callous character and so apparently they decided not to do this.
     
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  19. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    okay so just read about Jedi Natua Wan going crazy while at the zoo place with Leia, Han, and company......so I'm guessing this will now be the running theme, Jedi keep going crazy over and over again and nobody knows why....I mean I knew this was the story, but idk, this 3rd time just made me roll my eyes bc it's the same exact story over and over again UNTIL they figure out the cause.....also, now that they have 3 cases all from the one Jedi age group, shouldn't they have put more thought into which Jedi were allowed to go out on duty....also finally, what is wrong with the Jedi, are we to assume that they go so crazy they don't even act like Jedi anymore, bc in their own view they still are Jedi which should mean they still act like Jedi but they just do some horrible horrible non-Jedi things without care to get away...I mean Natua unleashes the dangerous animal exhibits on all the people (including "not-Allana" who is still a child regardless) in the area (and it might spread out to the entire zoo, haven't read that far yet)....even I worry about the state of the Jedi if this is how they operate now

    EDIT: also, in this book, I've noticed a lot of chapters end on one storyline only for the next chapter to immediately keep going with the storyline......that just seems jarring bc
    1)the chapter ends on a cliffhanger and the next chapter beings immediately and just keeps going so unless you specifically decide to not keep reading at that point the cliffhanger is sorta pointless
    2)the chapter ends in a exciting way, then the next chapter immediately picks up with a time skip and all the excitement just withers way....going to a different storyline helps with that time skip I think, but continuing with the same storyline just highlights the excitement drop off in the same storyline
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  20. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 9, 2007
    I was wondering when you would catch that. Yeah, by now they should have put every Jedi in that age group under house arrest in the Jedi Temple, rather than allowing one to go with Allana of all people. But meh, its another cheap excuse for an action scene. Figures that they would only name a new Jedi just so they can go crazy. I think she's the fourth (or later) case as there was that other Jedi (Heff?) who went crazy earlier. Its just that Valin and Jysella are some of the few existing characters from that age group (since no one other than Corran has had kids apparently), the rest are basically redshirts.

    And coincidentally all these "incidents" are making the Jedi look worse and worse in the public eye too. Daala's crackdown on the Jedi couldn't have happened six months earlier or later, no, it has to start now, same with all these Jedi breakdowns.

    If it was just Valin, ok. Jysella, maybe a family thing? But with at least four I can think of offhand, well, their inability to connect the dots is just embarrassing (can they really accomplish so little after Luke has left the room?). But again, must have action. And an attempt to pull on our heartstrings by putting Allana in danger. I-)
     
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  21. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Clighal worked it out without Luke’s help, ditto Tekli, in Omen. They needed a statistical sample to be sure of the one thing in common with them...?

    But otherwise - yes. It’s a weak cycle that was repeated a few too many times, with the same variation as to Jacen.

    Daala was simply waiting for the next mad Jedi after Jacen to act, let’s be fair. She’s been handed a great tool and she is gonna push it hard.

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    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  22. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    if she does, it's not at this point and I (as well as other readers it seems) have already figured it out and also I get the need for a statistical sample to be SURE but that doesn't mean you can't have already made a good hypothesis and at this point in the book everyone still has NO clue
     
  23. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    My theory

    was that Daala was a pawn of Aby, both living in the Maw for so long and given how convenient these crazies are.

    But nope, just random connections
     
  24. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I'm just wondering what's the feeling on the Master's opinions on what the Jedi should do here?

    1) be fighting against the GA openly as some want to?
    2) or be angry that Jaina's/other's actions keep getting them in trouble?

    me, I know it sucks that the GA is treating them this way, and I know it'd be preferable to have the crazy Jedi in house to study/treat/for safety from the Jedi opinion, but what else is the GA supposed to do also? Jedi are running amok and causing all kinds of issues and there's no "rhyme or reason" right now to it, the crazy Jedi have technically broken the laws so should be housed by the GA govt., and rogue Jedi running missions under the GA noses is obviously gonna hurt the situation worse....I feel sorry for Corran but he's not thinking straight, it sucks to be in Kenth's position at this moment, and the other Jedi are not helping him at all

    EDIT: another thing, just saying, while you'll never convince me it made any sense for Daala to be COS, it's just horrible they kept her being evil...I mean she's the COS of the GA and she's actively evil straight up (p. 231 and 236), it could have been a good true story on how involved the Jedi should be in govt/how they should be accountable/etc but nope, Daala is evil and the Jedi are right and must stop her........

    but I will say, the Jedi punishment for Jaina is confined to the Temple for 2 weeks?? so being grounded??? that's such a crap punishment aka being nonaccountable

    also why in the world did they not show us the interviews that Kenth, Jaina, and Leia had to give, that could have been interesting info, but oh well.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  25. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    I think the jedi are right to use non-violent resistance and the legal process to fight her.

    They also need to show they are accountable.


    Also what did you think of the reporter?
     
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