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Lit Fate of the Jedi issues...

Discussion in 'Literature' started by OutsiderJediSam, May 29, 2018.

  1. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 9, 2007
    The yslamiri thing might be addressed later. Maybe, I'm not sure how reliable my memory is. And there's always a suspension of belief for why characters don't do obvious or smarter things, and usually it doesn't bother me quite that much, if the story is of good quality. FotJ... yeah, no.

    Moving things off-planet might be a good idea, but FotJ is also obsessed with keeping most of the characters on Coruscant. Probably so they can all waste time together. Remember that Unification Summit that brought the Confederation and Imperial Remnant leaders to Coruscant? I'm not sure the story does. It was probably just an excuse to bring Jag to Coruscant so he and Jaina could have their scenes together, since otherwise Jag should be back in Imperial space.
     
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  2. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    And Denning couldn’t think of any interesting plot ideas for Jaina out in Imperial space.
     
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  3. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    That because Denning is an idiot.

    he can't think of anything interesting about the daughter of the two of the Rebels greatest leaders living in the Empire. Shows how much he thinks


    They are using Yslamiri to keep the crazy jedi under at least in the temple

    Out side of the Temple they just put them in carbonite, cause that isn't a violation of their rights or anything.

    Yeah it's a shame we don't see more normal people turning on Daala as she goes after the jedi (has she set up the court of jedi affairs yet?)
     
  4. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    so Leia and Han find out about the Mandos and that Jag didn't tell the Order and then go crazy mad at poor Jag....just grrr Leia and Han just grrrrrr......

    1) he is the head of the IR, he can't just screw them over for your sakes
    2) I'm sure Leia always screwed over the Rebellion/NR for other allies instead of keeping secrets for the good of Rebellion/NR in the past......it's called being the COS of YOUR group, you look out for their best interests, of course she has done it too.....hypocrite
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  5. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I can think of multiple plot lines involving Jaina in Imperial Space.
    Jaina meeting Force sensitives and creating an Academy,
    Han and Leia's reactions to Jag becoming leader of the Empire and Jaina marrying him.
    The reactions of Wedge, Luke, Mara, Gavin, and any other GCW era War hero from the Rebellion and or Empire.
    Jaina testing her mettle against up and coming Imperial pilots,
    Relations with the Chiss, meeting Baron Fel,
    Dealing with encroaching Unknown Regions threats.
     
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  6. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Not to mention just the friction due to her blood line and the place she is now living, fish out of water, have to deal with plots and characters
     
  7. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    this Jaina unfortunately wouldn't make it in the IR...she'd constantly just be complaining and yelling at the other Imps and thinking about how she should just cut them down with her lightsaber (although this wouldn't be portrayed as Dark side thoughts) instead of figuring out how to play the game and make real changes.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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  8. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    That does make me wonder-what sort of an empress was Jaina anyway?
     
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  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I’m absently amused that at least some of Sam’s complaints are resolved in the next few books.


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  10. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    And then it'll get much, much, MUCH

    worse.

     
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  11. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    okay, jw something......

    so when I originally read that Vestara and the Lost Tribe were chasing Ship, it sounded like they were approaching the Maw from the description, but then it mentioned being able to see a blue "star" in the center of it and I was like that doesn't sound like the Maw and then they were on a lush planet so I was like this isn't the Maw cluster then......

    but now Abeloth is described exactly like the Font of Power that Luke def. saw at the Maw station him and ben are at......

    so what is up? Abeloth so powerful can project different places? so powerful can create different visuals for different beings at the same place? or is Luke experiencing a Force vision? hopefully it will be explained later....but I'm not too interested in the OP bad guy again so I hope it's not that Abeloth is just this powerful.........
     
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  12. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004



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  13. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    man the Jedi are really pushing it to me.....they think Jaina should revisit her loyalties on Jag since he's the head of state of the IR

    1) Luke/Jedi put him in that position, he's only there bc of them
    2) now they want to dictate that he's the "bad" guy/how he should do his job/throw him away bc he didn't do what they wanted him to do....so they want him to be their puppet basically
    3) hence they are trying to control governments to some degree, hence the whole issue that is being thrown in their face.....
     
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  14. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I don't think jag would ever want to antagonize the Jedi-after all he only got the position because Luke imposed it on the moffs.

    And I do agree Jaina's relationship with jag creates conflicts of interest for both of them.
     
  15. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 9, 2007
    I don't remember the specifics of that plotline, but I remember Jagged getting too much screen time. Not that he's a bad character, but Coruscant is the GA capital, not the Imperial one, so as a visiting head of state he shouldn't have quite that much influence. Though kind of hard to tell the GA isn't the Empire sometimes. And technically the Imperial Remnant isn't the Jedi's enemy at the moment, but really, the whole Jedi vs. Daala thing feels overdramatic, especially compared to Luke's quest.

    I would say wait for answers, but well, you know how their track record on coordination and continuity is (after DNT and LotF) so I'll just advise you not to bother overthinking things, its not worth it. Just keep pushing on through the story.
     
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  16. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I don't really disagree with the notion that it does, I'm just saying it's really crappy of them to play both sides like that

    1) they instilled him in that position and knew he/Jaina had a thing when they did it
    2) now they want Jaina to drop him bc of it

    I'd be royally upset if I was Jaina and Jag

    exactly why I stay so upset, I don't trust them bc of track record

    on the overthinking, personally, I know I could do that, I just don't like ignoring it like it's ok, I want to call a spade a spade per say...

    is this the part where they go to visit the Horn kids at the detention center???
    I do think the plan has some problems but I also think Jaina actually turned it very well by using her brains in the moments it would almost go off the rails which was good to see
    (I did hate the mustache twirling way Daala acted at the end, doubt it'll change anything though)
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I don't think Jaina and Jag's relationship factored into the politics at the end of Invincible-Luke offered the moffs a choice between being turned over to the Hapan government and executed or accepting "Soontir Fel's son" as their leader.

    Thing is Jaina is the last surviving solo child and a Jedi who is both the next generation and probably in the public eye often-the Jedi council asking her to drop him or at least distance herself from him is a sensible demand given their positions. But it is something they should have thought about sooner.

    As opposed to waiting two years to make it an issue.
     
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  18. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I agree Invincible didn't try to factor it in, but it still obviously was going to be an issue

    I also don't deny the conflict it does cause, but like I said, you can't have it both ways, the Jedi DID put Jag in that position and Jag and Jaina were on the verge/are in a relationship, it's very crappy of them to do that to Jaina, and then turn on Jag also now for being true to the job they put him in (unless they want him to be their puppet which like I said causes all types of other problems)

    agreed, something they should have handled immediately if they were going to do it, not wait until now
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  19. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    so Luke just found out about what Jacen saw (the Throne vision) and I'm figuring why he did what he did (Jacen saying he had to stop it and it would probably kill him)..... trying now to justify Jacen this way is crappy

    here's the thing, we already knew what Jacen saw and that was why he was doing what he was doing....what made Jacen wrong was HOW he did it, and that is not up for debate, that is what made him EVIL, you can't change that or justify it
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  20. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Oh I think your going to enjoy the throne of balance stuff.
     
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  21. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I don’t see how Jaina and Jagged’s relationship could be taken into account during the end of the war when they weren’t together at the time.

    Equally - why should it? It’s irrelevant to the wider peace process. Just as much as the Jedi enmity with Daala was not relevant.

    I do like the idea that Daala and the Jedi are both manipulatively approaching the law to achieve their aims. I also like how the GAS is essentially the GAG at this point. Daala took Jacen’s mandate and runs with it to rebuild the galaxy.

    The focus on the Remnant is more a focus on Jagged and Jaina. Fel is essentially the second most powerful person in the galaxy. You can’t write a story without him, especially if he’s dating the Grandchild of the Chosen One.

    Jacen’s always going to be evil no matter what - but the Throne of Balance is going to tickle your senses. What did Jacen see? What could he possibly have send which could remotely justify what he did? Questions...




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  22. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I know they weren't officially together, but they obviously liked each other, the problem is not really so much that the Jedi made Jag head of IR in of itself, it's that they are totally cool with Jag/Jaina from w/e time they do date publically until this moment when Jag had to act in the best interests of himself/IR (which he should) and then now turn on the whole thing....my mistake I guess for making the first point too big when it's more the second point....it's obvious there would be a conflict of interest as pointed out so maybe bring that up to Jaina/Jag way back when they started dating....and like I already said, it's crappy for them to turn on Jag for doing his job, the job they put him in (if he'd told them, he'd be committing treason as the head of state against his own people/GA for giving way state secrets)...it's not about them wishing that'd he been ABLE to tell them, it's their total disgust at him for NOT telling them

    My answer to that would simply be nothing he saw could remotely justify WHAT he did bc like you agree, the actions were always evil..
     
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  23. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Unless of course Jacen was right in the end. After all Caedus did have supporters and he did have a motivation that wasn't utter self elevation or ambition as opposed to palpatine or Krayt.
     
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  24. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I'm not so sure the Wookies or Fondor would agree with you
    also, I think we've done this before, but come on now?
    right in the end? supporters? yea that totally would justify taking over and becoming a dictator, creating a police state, killing millions, torturing subordinates, razing planets, turning a good son against his good father, do I need to go on??
     
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  25. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    You bring up many good points-I'm just playing devil's advocate and am as everyone knows a Jacen fan.