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Lit Fate of the Jedi issues...

Discussion in 'Literature' started by OutsiderJediSam, May 29, 2018.

  1. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    Hm I´m not sure. These youtube channels would never become so popular as to really bring in a huge fanbase on their own(and I guess many of their viewers today are EU fans) and the essential guides I think are more intresting towards EU fans to get some more background. The majority of possible cutsomers probably just want a not to complictaed SW story they can understand without needing to have reasearched the backstory and it probably wouldn´t hurt if it has a link to the movies.
    The Thrawn trilogy was all of that, while at the same time offering some new things and characters, and that´s what I belive is the reason its the most beloved piece of SW literature.
     
  2. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    The Thrawn trilogy was itself 20 years old-and introduced more than a few new characters-Mara, Thrawn, Pellaeon, kardde, C'boath, etc...

    My point on the YouTube channels was that they could have served as a sort of intro/summary/discussion of the EU.

    A way to broaden the EU's exposure and to show it to a more general audience than what might see it in a bookstore or fan convention.
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  3. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    Yeah it introduces these new characters but they don´t overtake the story, the main PoV and the action is still in the hands of Luke, Han, Leia and Lando. Also while new characters Thrawn and Paelleon are part of the empire, a faction established in the movies. You don´t need any additional knowlegde above the movies to understand these books.

    Certainly youtube channel can introduce the EU to people but I don´t think that many people who have just seen the movies would be intrested in videos on Jacen or the Vong. And of those who watch the videos only a few would probably go on to read the books. I mean isn´t the point of these videos to give people who don´t want to read the books a general idea what happens in them?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    True true-it does have that unfortunate effect.

    And yeah you are right about the Thrawn trilogy.

    I honestly wonder-what would have salvaged the EU if new leadership had been put in.
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  5. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    The years between 2005 and 2012 were a double-edged sword for the EU. With no further movies in sight, and silver screen SW seemingly closed forever, it seemed like the EU was free to do things it had never done before, with each passing year amping up the "Sure, why not?" factor from the higher-ups even more. Starting with Legacy and continuing on with things like The Old Republic and Fate of the Jedi, there were suddenly Sith everywhere.

    [​IMG]

    And then by 2012 we had a series on the origin of the Jedi. The other side of the sword is that LucasArts was making these games like The Force Unleashed and whatever the one was with that Jedi named X2 that were like "Look at all these Jedi that were part of the Rebellion!" and just completely spitting in the face of the original trilogy (seriously, look up this X2 fella on Wookieepedia. He was a Jedi working with the Rebellion and then the New Republic right up until at least Dark Empire. For... for ****'s sake.)

    So yeah it was cool that the EU was free to go in previously-undreamed-of directions, but it also took things too far and often seemed like it was close to collapsing under the weight of its own unchecked vastness. In retrospect, it really needed some oversight. Some sort of figure guiding it and not being afraid to reign things in and veto stupid things (TFU? Sure! But lol of course it's not canon). A Kevin Feige type. Bring in diverse voices and let them do their own things, but maybe have some, any sort of plan. Having it be open season wasn't the best idea.

    But actually that would have been impossible with The Clone Wars happening. Damn.
     
    Nobody145, Xammer and kalzeth like this.
  6. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I didn't have a problem with TFU actually.

    As for planning-if I were in charge I would have added more writers for the post NJO era than the 4 or five that were actually there, and also expanded on less explored eras.

    I would have sought to maintain thematic and tonal consistency where appropriate but also allowed exploration into other genres such as horror, detective, spy etc...-the Star Wars universe can accommodate a near infinite variety of story types.
     
  7. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2016
    It may seem like stating the obvious but as a business they're less likely to listen to what you're saying the fans felt when the books are still selling and making a profit. I don't know the figures at all but assuming that Denning's novels were still selling just as well, or even better, as any others, which is likely, then the publishers will keep contracting them.
     
  8. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Sales were declining pretty much continuously though IIRC
     
  9. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Well the Sith are a good villain for Star Wars, it's them and the Empire and when they tried to move away from that in a big way (NJO) it got backlash.

    While I don't think FotJ needed Sith, Legacy and SWTOR work fine with lots of Sith. I mean the Lost Tribe could have been a new take on things. It wasn't but they had potential.
     
    OutsiderJediSam likes this.
  10. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Regarding the NJO-I think it was controversial-fans left the franchise over it.

    While personally I think the Yuuzhan Vong were excellent antagonists and stand on their own merits-they were beyond what a lot of other fans could accept in terms of fitting into Star Wars.

    The issue was that that the Vong were controversial-the Sith aren't. The Sith are pretty easily recognized and accepted as SW antagonists.
     
    AusStig likes this.
  11. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    The Sith are also sometimes boring, as FotJ showed. The Legacy comics put a little bit of thought into their Sith, the Tribe were pretty generic.

    NJO was controversial, but hard to tell what was the biggest factor. Maybe it was the Vong, maybe it was the gore and darkness, maybe it was the writing, I'm not sure if any major cause was ever agreed on. Not like they can poll every disaffected fan.

    Anyway, you can have excellent Star Wars books without any Sith in them. The X-wing books are fondly remember as some of the best of the old EU. Mercy Kill is most likely the best post-TUF novel by far, and no Sith there (thankfully). Even the KotOR comics, set in the ancient Republic, barely has Sith. Well, kind of, its complicated, but the villains there are usually more than just loud jerks with red lightsabers.

    LotF and FotJ were written after the prequels finished, so now other eras could use the Sith more, but aside from it undermining Palpatine and Vader's deaths, just using the Sith so much cheapens their threat. Bad enough they ruined Jacen, then we had FotJ's mess of a plot between the Jedi's problems with the GA, the Tribe, Abeloth and it was just confusing rather than complex and interesting.
     
    kalzeth, OutsiderJediSam and AusStig like this.
  12. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    The Tribe was generic in Dennings hands.

    In Golden or Miller or Allston’s hands they were very well used.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    I don't think Lucasfilm releases those numbers, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Almost all of the FotJ books reached the top 10 on the NYTimes best seller list.

    Outcast reached 3
    Omen reached 4
    Abyss- 7
    Backlash- 4
    Allies- 8
    Conviction- 3
    Ascension- 7
    Apocalypse- 2

    LotF follows a similar trend. Plus, this is only the post-rotj era. For instance, Darth Plagueis(2012) reached #4 on the list. I think they were selling a great many books.
     
  14. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Curious-I did know that invincible did very well on the bestsellers list. I even saw invincible once for sale at a truckstop restaurant of all places.
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  15. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    Well it was the conclusion of a longer series and killed Jacen who arguably was the main character of the younger generation.
     
    AusStig likes this.
  16. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Yeah-that was my point it's an extremely depressing sad book, even for someone not very familiar with the old EU-the tone is dark, forboding and just sad.

    I was surprised at how well it did in terms of sales.
     
    AusStig likes this.
  17. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    YeahI got that.My point was that the conclusion of LotF and Jacen's death where pretty important plot wise for the EU. Maybe people picked it up because of that.
     
  18. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    This is sales. Just sales. I went in expecting Jacen to be redeemed or captured, not killed.

    No telling how many people brought the book, read it, then on sell it/return it.
     
  19. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I saw it for sale once I believe in a truckstop and once at a gas station. Though there were no other LOTF books-so a lot of people picking it up would probably have not understood the context.
     
  20. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2017
    just checking in, good news, my local library has Mercy Kill, so I don't have to buy this one, it'd annoy me to have only one X-wing book....so I'll be going to get it early next week and we're off and running again....oh and looked on Marvel Unlimited, just wow at all the issues of Legacy....that'll be a trek, but I'm gonna do it
     
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  21. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I'm looking forward to it.
     
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  22. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Return a book? Surely you can't do that. You could just read it, return it, and never play a cent.
     
  23. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    I meant a refund lol, yes one can use a library.

    But have not found a single Star wars book in a library since year 6.
     
  24. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2016
    I don't get how you can get a refund on a book though? How would you run a business like that? Anyone could just treat a bookstore like a library, buy a nice new book, read it, then return it and get their money back.
     
    OutsiderJediSam likes this.
  25. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    You can return most products for a refund or more often store credit.

    My main point however, was simply that the sales don't tell the entire story.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018