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ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    I think Rian should have committed to direct both the second AND the third movie, or none at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
    Jedi_Fenrir767 likes this.
  2. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    It amazes me that people demanding 7 figure paychecks in a 10 figure revenue company couldn't figure out the teamwork part of movie making.
     
  3. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    He wasn't villified for it he pulled back from doing anything different in TLJ. My exact feelings during the film were man I don't really know who this loser is but he is not Luke Skywalker and why is fuel a thing... and canto bight what a waste (nothing will change my mind on that). The moment Rey almost went with Kylo and he suggested burning down the first order I though oh there is a point to everything that was going on well at least 50% of it and maybe we are going to do something radically different. Then it as well becomes Empire vs Rebels 2.0 with the Resistance being called rebels. Everything different in TLJ got thrown out the window in the 3rd act and it all gets walked back making me wonder why I saw my favorite character at the time get talked down to and go on a pointless side quest and them one of my favourite characters of all time get basically ruined. TLJ had a lot of stupid things in it for many characters especially Finn IMO and instead of going somewhere with any of it it all goes nowhere....

    I agree with that statement it feels like he turned in a cut of TLJ with something legitimately new in it and the studio said cool now your going to follow it up right since we know that Colin was basically gone then and he said naw I am out after this. Then it was rewritten and we got what we got with the third act seemingly from a completely different movie as it was change to make. He would have done the last two or just stayed out of it
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  4. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
  5. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    C3PO calls him 'master Finn' in Pasaana.
     
  6. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    So? Has nothing to do with his being visually and contextually (comic relief) liken to 3PO role in TFA.
     
  7. Troopa212

    Troopa212 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Abrams kept him around but it was Rian that bolstered his profile.
    She didn't get one either. Unless it was Finn or even Poe, she wasn't going to get a happy ending on that front.

    That was on the table since TFA and it did nothing to handicap the story. In fact I would say it's the only major development that actually enriches a character's story in the entire trilogy.

    This is the only thing that I could agree did handicap the story in TROS. But even that could have been done in a way that made sense and enriched the story.

    Again, Abrams is not to blame here. He didn't kill off Snoke that was Rian. Palpatine was brought back based on Rian's decision not the oher way around.
    Also slaughtering a lot of other innocent people. His story followed Vader's which had nothing to do with fan demand. His story pretty much had to end the way it did, "It Rhymes" remember?
    They had the whole dyad thing going so the kiss was a culmination of a relationship that could only end in Kylo's death. They got as much Reylo as they could get given the circumstances.
     
  8. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    So your proof that Disney and LFL 'designed' Finn as the ST's 3PO is coming from Bob Effette's posts or your own??
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  9. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    @sian1965
    Yeah, Daisy was always very firm on that and she never joked about or teased Rey and Finn romance unlike John who always joked about and teased that everyone loved Finn, that Finn was an eligible bachelor, and I think he once said that Finn should be with Rey. But Daisy was very clear that Rey and Finn were like brother and sister and BFFs, and that John was like brother to her. So I think that they had different take on their characters relationship, with Daisy's take clearly winning out, and that may have seeped into their performances. Rey being completely disinterested in Finn romantically while Finn coming off as a lovesick puppy towards Rey.

    Also, I'm not surprised that TROS was all Rey with everyone else just being there. Daisy is JJ's big favorite. I remember when John said that Daisy texted him that JJ told her that they were getting back together (as in working together since they didn't in TLJ). And my immediate thought was that JJ told Daisy personally while John had to hear it from Daisy. She also told that anecdote about JJ taking her to the restaurant and telling her TROS story several months before filming, and her being worried that he'd be overheard. And then the story changed when she read the script. So that shows that she and JJ have closer relationship than JJ and other actors. A lot was made around here about Rian having a preference for Adam Driver, but I'd say that JJ has much bigger preference for Daisy. TROS is a prime example of that.

    @afrojedi The post is 100% my scientific research. Feel free to refute the visual cues and comic relief context or post visual cues that prove something else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  10. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    [face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh]


    Relegated to the background as soon as Han shows up.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Where is 3PO??? A ha ha ha

    Seems to me that Chewie would be more important than Luke given your example. Hopefully they aren't teaching scientist that type of scientific researching
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  11. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    What Rian actually wanted to do was take off the mask so everyone could see Adam's face, which was because he's a fine actor who expressed a lot of emotion via his face and Rian wanted to show that. I don't think he favoured one actor over the other, he actually said Daisy and Mark were the beating heart of the film.
    I actually liked Luke's depiction in TLJ, maybe because I'm a middle aged old ****, and identified a lot with how starry eyed youthful idealism can be replaced by old age cynicism! But I never saw Luke as a loser - quite the opposite.
     
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’m also a middle aged cynic that had no real issue with that aspect of Luke’s character. The idea that we are supposed to believe that he deserved all the self flagellation he gave himself over Kylo, though? Miss me with that.

    I think Abrams was the first to take off Kylo’s mask so I don’t know that Johnson is responsible for the idea that we’re supposed to be sold on facial expressions above behavior. I do think Johnson favored Driver or Kylo’s character though, although I’m not sure whether it was the actor or the character who was favored more.

    I said on my TLJ rewatch that I actually think Johnson did better by Finn, although that isn’t saying much. At least the bad racial tropes were not there or not as obvious.
     
  13. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Well, I said that you are free to refute my scientific research. It still stands that, context-wise, he was supporting Han after Han showed up rather than the other way around. The main thing was Han going to SKB to confront Ben.
     
  14. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I think the question isn't so much did Luke deserve it, or if Luke thought he deserved it.

    Regarding Finn, I'm actually saddened we never got to see him as leading a stormtrooper uprising. I would have liked to see where it might have taken his character. Same with General Poe, we did get him but not until the very end.
    I'm also sorry that we never had Finn and Poe discovering Rey's little trip to the Supremacy, and Hux finding out Kylo killed Snoke.
     
  15. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    There's different, and then there's just being contrary. But we have lots of threads for that conversation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  16. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Science of the Lambs presents: Finn vs Luke. Who did it better after the key point in the story where they both ended up behind Han?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So this is our starting point. Our heroes were hogging the screen time until the moment Han Solo took the stage and put them in the back. In this spoiler, we are going to explore where they went from there and what was their payoff.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    I credit @afrojedi for this idea. It shows where things really went bad for Finn. It's the third act where he's taken out of the picture to make room for Rey's shining moment. And that affected everything going forward. While in ANH, shiny moment was Luke's not another character's stepping in to push him out (Han's return and assistance didn't have "move over" intention and effect).
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  17. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I don't think he did that much different.
     
    Def Trooper likes this.
  18. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Thanks for pointing that out, because a lot of people think Kylo pushed Finn aside, but in both TFA and TROS, Finn had more screen time than Kylo.
    In fact it was Rey, although Poe didn't help matters much. My personal beef with Boyega aside I liked his character, and I was almost as disappointed in his role in TROS as Kylo's.
    And I'm thoroughly in agreement regarding Luke in ANH. Somehow in the OT they managed to give everyone equal screen time without taking it away from the others. Unfortunately Rey was pushed to the forefront in TROS in such a manner Finn, Kylo and Rose never got a look in.

    Ironically looking back over the entire trilogy post TROS Rose is far more interesting than Rey.
     
  19. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    If that's the best 'scientific research' has for the 3PO argument, I rest my case.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  20. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    It's a great scientific research that proves that Finn was never meant to be the leading man. Check out Rey-centrism in JJ movies. Compare endings:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    #whereisfinn #whereisthetrio #oopshediditagain


    Yep.
     
  21. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
  22. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    You forgot broom boy
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  23. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    JJ(TFA + TROS) - (same thing in TLJ) = scientific research

    duh
     
  24. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Rey is the main character. No one has denied this except people who think Kylo's bloodline somehow should make him the star. But Finn is not 3PO in comparison and comparing a Black human character to a droid is not favorable.

    I always saw Poe as Han and Finn as Leia. They aren't direct copies in the same way Rey is to Luke, but they serve their purpose in the Trio in a similar way.
     
  25. alwayslurking

    alwayslurking Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Finn is not C3PO. But also, Finn is not Han, Leia, Luke, or Vader. Finn was actually one of the few characters introduced in this trilogy who didn't feel like he was trying to fill some archetype from the OT. That's why these arguments that Finn = C3PO are so weak.... there isn't an OT character like Finn. He's actually unique and new. That's why so many of us lament the way his character was wasted in TLJ and TROS.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020