main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. The Boards Are Now Reopened For Business:

    READ THIS: your ability to post here depends upon it.. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    This I agree with. Finn doesn't really have a direct comparison. Not like Rey does with Luke or Kylo with Vader or Luke with Obi-Wan. That's one reason why he seemed so interesting. In TFA, anyway.
     
  2. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Where is CP3O using the Force? When did CP3O slash Vader's shoulder with a lightsaber? How many X-Wings has C3PO downed? How many languages does Finn speak? How many times has Finn blamed others for his decisions? How many times has Finn snapped at his companions?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  3. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I didn't. I covered only JJ movies. They have Rey-centric endings. Unlike based Rian's ending.

    @afrojedi That all stands but visual cues in TFA are undeniable. And he was TFA's comic relief so that's that. For all beatings that Rian gets for his handling of the character, outside of leaky bag and encounter with Rose, he did very little comedy that I can think of, while he was dominant comedy force in TFA. So context-wise, he filled the spot that 3PO occupied in ANH - comic relief sidekick.

    Also, slashing Kylo's shoulder was a consolation prize for not being the One. pretty much without any consequence. Like downing redshirt X Wings. That's what he did, killed redshirts, not bad guys that mattered. That's not what a lead does.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  4. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    I forgot when 3PO encountered Vader and had a lightsaber duel with him in ANH that lead to Luke crying over his body.

    Your logic is fault-y. Just because a character has funny moments does not compare them to a droid.
     
  5. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I don't understand the x-wing references? Am I missing something?
     
  6. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    My bad :tie:TIE fighters:tie:
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  7. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Nope, my logic is far from faulty because visual and contextual cues were used in TFA to compare him to a droid. If they weren't in place than I wouldn't notice them. Also, it isn't like 3PO was never a warrior, temporary he may have been but, then, Finn was a temporary "Jedi" too.

    [​IMG]

    Moreover, Finn's encounter with "Vader" was nothing more than red herring for marketing devised to hide that Rey was the Jedi. There was absolutely no consequence and payoff to his fight with Kylo because all consequence and payoff was on Rey's side. It's Rey who had meaningful relationship with "Vader" going forward, while Finn faded from "Vader"'s memory. And if JJ had a problem with that, he could have brought it back just like he brought back Palpatine. But oops, he didn't. Oh, and Finn holding the saber like a flashlight in TROS was quite a payoff to his wielding the saber in TFA. [face_tee_hee]

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    The C3PO theory has been thoroughly dismantled so dragging the goal posts over to the 'He's not the protagonist' argument was a better tactic. Finn wasn't the protagonist and the writers lumped too much comedic relief on the character. This is sad, because embracing the Stormtrooper turned Rebel story would have been an excellent B plot arc for the trilogy. Unfortunately the creatives were either too lazy or too pressed for time to write a storyline for this unique situation. This is certainly one of the things that led to a decline in the popularity/positive response to the trilogy over time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  9. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    And then, completely bizarrely, they created a female Finn (Jannah) in the last movie in order to half-baked reference what-could-have-been. It's a weird weird trilogy, unfocused, meandering, not sure what it wants to be.
     
  10. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I like Naomi but her character was a unnecessary.
    FS Finn doesn't bother me but I was a bit disappointed when they said 'the he Force' drove Finn to reject the FO. I thought it was simply because he was a decent person.
    It's ironic....C3PO, R2 and Chewie outlived all the Skywalkers and Solos didn't they?
    Heck, it's depressing. The more I think about it, the more depressing I realise TROS really is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  11. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    That’s not exactly surprising.

    They were older than them and shown during the PT too.

    Since actors are fully in costume you don’t have to show aging. And as shown with Chewie and C-3PO, you can get new actors to replace them.

    You could eventually do the same with Anthony Daniels. The only thing is that you eventually have to get someone that can do his voice. Just like replacing Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Bugs Bunny voices, etc over the last few decades.


    Heck. George Lucas was saying Artoo was going to outlive everyone for years. That was always his intent. And that the entire story is him telling the tale to young people hundreds of years after the fact.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  12. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    TFA: And raised to do one thing. But my first battle, I made a choice.
    TROS: It was the will of the Force

    JJ retcons even his own movie. Never change, JJ, never change. [face_tee_hee]
     
  13. starfish

    starfish Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Being force sensitive doesn’t mean a person doesn’t also have free will, that’s never been the interpretation of how the force works

    Finn being force sensitive doesn’t contradict the fact that he decided to leave the FO and that it was his choice to do so
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  14. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    It muddles the waters and it was presented in a way that seems like everyone who left FO did it on inexplicable instinct/feeling rather than something thought out.
     
  15. starfish

    starfish Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    I don’t think it muddles anything about how the force works, the force guides them and helps them to trust in their intuition to leave the FO, it doesn’t literally decide things for them. That’s consistent with how we’ve seen the force presented before.
     
  16. alwayslurking

    alwayslurking Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Exactly. If being force sensitive is all it takes, then why is Ben Solo a part of the First Order? It's all about choice.
     
  17. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I like your avatar.
     
  18. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Finn: Okay, wait. You were First Order?
    Jannah: Not by choice. We were conscripted as kids. All of us. I was TZ-1719, Stormtrooper.
    Finn: FN-2187.
    Jannah: You?
    Finn: I never knew there were more.
    Jannah: Deserters. All of us here were Stormtroopers. We mutinied at the Battle of Ensa Island. They told us to fire on civilians. We wouldn’t do it. We laid our weapons down.
    Finn: All of you.
    Jannah: The whole company. I don’t even know how it happened. It wasn’t a decision really. It was like…
    Finn: An instinct. A feeling.
    Jannah: A feeling.
    Finn: The Force. The Force brought me here. Brought me to Rey, and Poe.
    Jannah: You say that like you’re sure it’s real.
    Finn: It’s real. I wasn’t sure then, but I am now.

    Sorry but they do not talk about it as if they made a choice. Jannah explicitly says it wasn't a decision, they didn't know how it happened. Movie debunks any decision/choice-making. It was the will of the Force and they were basically pawns.
     
    Def Trooper likes this.
  19. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I think the will of the Force still allows free will. Like maybe the Force guides you or puts an idea in your head, but you still have to decide.
     
  20. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I honestly have no idea what Terrio and Abrams were doing!
     
  21. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    whatever they were doing they certainly didn't write those lines as an example of free will. Quite the contrary.
     
  22. starfish

    starfish Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    No because that’s not and never has been how the force works, the force doesn’t literally control people or make them do things against their will.

    Jannah’s dialogue is describing how the company as collective spontaneously decided to leave without prior discussion or planning.

    Finn is describing how the force was guiding him.

    Neither comment is supposed to be taken like they didn’t have a choice in the matter.
     
  23. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    That's your interpretation. Jannah says very clearly that they didn't know what happened and that it wasn't a decision. So we are going to agree to disagree whether "I don't know what just happened" means choice and free will or not.
     
  24. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    She says this mysterious force “feeling” heavily influenced her decision but ultimately she made the decision.

    just like the dark side heavily influenced Ben Solo’s decision to kill his classmates and join Snoke. He made his choice and Jannah made hers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  25. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Yes and every time 3PO is in those situations you posted, it's funny and the audience laughs at him. When Finn is fighting Kylo, it's serious and not a laughing matter. It doesn't matter if he gets knocked out during the fight (Kylo gets thrown down a pit during the Palpatine fight in a similar fashion). Point is, he's not 3PO and comparing him to him has no basis in fact. Simply because a character has comedic moments (which they all do, Kylo throws tantrums, Rey can't shoot her pistol correctly, etc.) doesn't mean they're on a similar level as a droid.

    His character arc was done badly (like many characters in this trilogy), but he's by no means comparable to 3PO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
    afrojedi, Troopa212 and alwayslurking like this.