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ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Yes but listening to disgruntled Jedi Finn fans you'd think they missed Finn (they didn't) or outright hated the twist (they didn't).
     
  2. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Are people seriously still upset over that? (Finn having a light saber) Good Lord.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don’t remember who voiced him in TCW. He was OK in earlier seasons there when he was Obi-Wan’s hippie friend. Dark Disciple having him catch the Dark Side like it’s the flu, and turning Ventress into a sobbing wuss on his behalf, may be the biggest abomination in Star Wars. Ruining Ventress’ character is criminal.

    In the pre-TCW Dark Horse comics, he’s an ***hole who treats women like meat specimens on a butcher block.
     
  4. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Oh i'd heard that that book was bad. I've stayed away from it. Especially since i heard they kill ventress off. I'm good. Ventress may as well still be alive. Maybe she'll run into cal kestess and friends.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  5. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    So looking back at TROS. Did Jannah and her troop experience the same thing as lone Finn did?

    If people say Finn broke from the FO’s influence because he’s force sensitive, does that mean everyone in Jannah’s troop are force sensitive?????
     
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I never thought that was why Finn broke free.
     
  7. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
  8. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    The film implies this.
     
    2Cleva and Def Trooper like this.
  9. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    The film is odd about this, because Finn's discussion with her is all about how the Force gave them a feeling. But then Jannah isn't shown having any Force signs. She doesn't have "a feeling" like Finn does in locating where the main ship is. It's a bit unclear.
     
    Blastaar likes this.
  10. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    it's unclear because no one gave it much thought beyond "this is a convenient way to explain how to know which ship to shoot [Finn feels it] and introduce a new character whom we might use in the future [Jannah]". So no wonder they were left with a situation where bunch of Storm troopers (including Finn) left FO due to "a feeling" yet only one (Finn) could feel something after that event. Though the alternative would be Finn and Jannah feeling the ship and talking over each other so better not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  11. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again, but this is frustratingly ST discussions in a nutshell.
    "Does this imply that?"
    "If you ask me, 'this' never happened in the first place."
    "It's all a bit unclear."
     
  12. Def Trooper

    Def Trooper Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    This whole trilogy is a joke. Both Abrams and Johnson sucked at writing Finn. I'd say Abrams tried harder, but his attempt in TROS was misguided to say the least.
     
  13. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    The trilogy is very much a "Choose Your Own Adventure" story. No one could decide on anything, so even the audience gets to choose their own interpretation.
     
  14. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Amen

    Amen

    @reyvision

    Amen
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  15. Troopa212

    Troopa212 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Finn was the only one introduced to the concept of the force and was familiarized with it for a long enough time to where he could reasonably attribute anything to it. Rey was a special case and even she took a while to understand or accept it. So to me Company 77 not showing abilities like Finn not only makes sense but is in fact not a strike against the writing.

    To be fair to Abrams, Johnson kind of painted him into a corner regarding Finn. He did what he could given time constraints and circumstances.
     
    2Cleva likes this.
  16. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
  17. Triad Moons

    Triad Moons Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2020
    Before The Awakening is the beginning of Episode VII for Finn and this becomes more apparent as time passes. Finn's arc (proper) begins in Rucka's story and audiences were dropped into the (middle of the) first half of his second act of it at the start of TFA. Given what he managed to handle the cast of characters in The Old Guard with Gina-Prince Bythewood, I want to live in a reality where Rucka wrote the script for TFA given how he also handled Rey, Leia, and Poe.

    Anyone following the production of TFA, can probably spot where and how that [potential] aspect of Finn's narrative got yeeted in the re-shoot/rewrite process, but the executives still decided to leverage it in order to bolster Rey's narrative and draw Black audiences.

    Finn's Force Sensitivity:

    [​IMG]

    (Principal Photography)
    • [...]INT DAY - 212 - CASTLE - UNDERGROUND CHAMBER • Finn is drawn toward the object [Lightsaber], Rey repelled by it. She bolts
    • [...]INT DAY - 249 - RESISTANCE BASE • Maz Kanata thinks the special thing [Lightsaber] should be with the boy. Tells Leia
    • [...]EXT DAY - 251 - RESISTANCE HANGAR (MILLENNIUM FALCON) • Leia gives Finn the Sword [Lightsaber]. (x)
    (I don't think anything changed after this point. Finn was definitely still going to be used as a bait-n-switch for Rey no matter how the second and third act was handled. The fact that Rey's escape from Kylo Ren's torture chamber was more McGyver than spontaneous Force abilities, and that she apparently got into a physical fight the gangsters [The Raid dudes?] on Han's freighter, so the Lightsaber bait-n-switch feels more out-of-nowhere instead of hurried into at the last minute, plays into that. The difference is that there wouldn't be any ground for bad faith actors, LucasFilm, and TLJ to argue he wasn't Force sensitive without looking even more malicious than they already do/did when they were pressed about it.)

    (Post-Production):
    • [Post-TFA] JB: “I really wanted to tell people that Finn wasn’t going to be the Jedi of Force Awakens, that you wouldn’t see any signs of him being Force-sensitive. Because they had all the posters (of Finn) with the lightsaber, I didn’t want people to be somewhat disappointed.” (x)
    • [Pre-TLJ] MB: "We don't know that Finn isn't a Jedi. [...]Do you know that he's not? [...]Obviously he's special, because he went against his training as a stormtrooper." (x)
    • [Post-TLJ] JB: "I can’t lie. I don’t like the way they was advertising me with the blue lightsaber. And then all of a sudden - man, it just, you know, transferred." (x)
    • [Post-TROS] JB: "I think the main thing is that Finn is definitely Force sensitive. And was always strong in the force for a long time. [...]In the previous draft [of TROS], it was actually a conversation between Rey and Finn. [...]They actually talked it out. There was a scene where Rey already knew. Like, he stopped her in the Falcon and was gonna let her know that he had the Force. That he felt it ever since he left the First Order. That energy was the motivating factor. And he's known it for a very long time. [...]Rey said, "'Finn, I knew for a long time. Like since the moment I met you, that you were strong in the Force. I knew there was something about you'." (x)
    (Throughout the aftermaths of TFA, TLJ and TROS, Boyega (and Abrams' associates) is, like the audience, trying to wrap their heads around and/or reconcile what Abrams and co. failed to follow through on for misdirection, and what Johnson (and Trevorrow) ultimately rejected with the eager support of LFD by writing Finn into irrelevance. His interactions with the sect of the SW fanbase that weren't attacking him, suggested he was similarly led to believe he could/would be a Jedi, but quickly discarded that belief once the gears in TFA shifted and wanted the film's marketing to reflect that instead of outright lying to the audience (and then gas-lighting them afterward). And I figure by the end of TLJ and TROS, he was ready to wash his hands of the mess.)

    (I hate how the scripted/shot heart-to-heart [in TROS] was written. It's more about Rey being privy to Finn's abilities than it is about Finn specifically handling the situation and coming to terms with it on his own, but that fits with the general lack of an arc he had post-TFA. Nothing is about him, but he is a useful [reactionary] prop for everyone else, esp. in situations where he should be the center/subject and not the object.)


    Finn's Identity
    • [TFA, Production] JJA: “I will only say about that that it is completely intentional that their [Finn and Rey's] last names aren’t public record." (x)
    • [TROS, Production] JB: "I was excited when I read the script. I actually read it, and I stopped, and then I went and had a conversation with JJ. I was like, “thank you, man. I’ve been- I’ve been waiting for this.” (x)
    • [TROS, Post-Production] JJA: “It is part of the story of this one. [...]And it was alluded to in Episode VII [?????], but there’s a bit more light shed on that in this one. [....]I’m not saying we get full, exhaustive downloads on all of their childhoods and every major step that got them to where they are. But there are a lot of questions about Finn’s past.” (x)
    (How this aspect of his character eventually discarded, convinced me no one had a particularly worthwhile approach to this character and whatever comes afterward will more or less be a flaccid mess now that Finn has been solidified as their new Token Black character. I'm also just too taken with my own ideas for the character to really consider anything from LFD worth spit in a bucket now after what they did.)

    Anyway, bye again, stop linking Screenrant articles like they're a reputable website, and thank God for the PC Modding Community.
     
  18. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Well, we don't know for certain. Hux was no Galen Erso; he was no scientist. The death star and those clones had to do with Erso and the Kaminoans, and that meant Palpatine, more than Hux.
    Also, Palpatine was a sith: 'cloning, dark science, secrets only the sith knew'. So the clone+troops+force continuum has been inhabited by Palpatine before. Snoke was basically a FS puppet clone.

    Hux understands his toys and the conditioning program, but he inherited them from Brendol, his dad. Brendol Hux, Rax, Yupe Tahu, all of them were related to Palpatine. Hux was younger and littlemore than a rabid cur/idiot.

    So maybe: a mind trick forced upon FS babies at a massive scale. Maybe that's what Baby Yoda was needed (the Mandalorian takes place 2 years before Finn was born I think) in order to develop the technology.

    It may be that it never came to be succesful, so they tried another thing, and that's what we would be seeing in the films, if you're right (Ochi is called a 'jedi hunter', and not a jedi killer, so with him it would have been about kidnapping FS children. That was the case with Rey)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  19. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    I wish I could like this a thousand times.
     
  20. Def Trooper

    Def Trooper Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Agreed. This was a problem with pretty much every writer that handled Finn; The total unwillingness to dive into his mindset. Sadly, I think Trevorrow did the best job at that (despite his other massive failings). He actually gave Finn a personal arc that he alone drives alongside the larger main plot. He at least clears that low bar.

    JJ did okay enough in TFA, Rian just totally demeaned him in TLJ, then JJ failed Finn by making him too attached to Rey (with little to no reciprocation) in TROS. I'm not sure who was responsible, but cutting out huge swaths of Finn's arc did massive damage to an already crippled character, compounded with the embarrassment of being ignored by Rey in favor of Kylo? Not a good look.

    Yup. As far as I'm aware, there was never a point where you saw directors, writers, or staff at LFL wax poetic about the amazing message and relatability of Finn the same way they did Rey and Kylo. They never seemed to do it much for Poe either, but they showed plenty of dedication to him elsewhere.
     
  21. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Advertising Finn with the lightsaber was certainly a mistake, IMO. There’s no value to artificially raising expectations among fans, and then dashing them.
     
  22. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't pull an Avengers Endgame and have Finn's big moment in TROS be him force pulling a lightsaber to him and igniting it to defeat a major baddie.
     
  23. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    That would require competence and a plan that supported the character.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  24. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Finns tease to possibly being force sensitive was basically similar to what they did with Leia in ROTJ. but really JJ was trying to recapture the Luke, Han and Leia relationship. so there could only be one jedi character.
     
    rocknroll41 likes this.
  25. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    The thing is with Leia we're straight up told that she's strong with the Force and just hasn't been trained. With Finn I watched the movie and then found out he was Force Sensitive from some comments online afterwards.