ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

I couldn't care less about Finn being force-sensitive (we've seen plenty of FS people in SW already, it's nothing new or interesting), but I would have loved to see a storm trooper rebellion. I'm just not sure how it could have been handled convincingly. The Duel Of The Fates script had it, and it gave Finn more to do than TROS did, but it suffered from feeling a bit too easy and rushed (not the rebellion itself, but the stormtroopers switching sides.) I think the only way to convincingly do such a thing would be to plant the seeds for it throughout the trilogy. Then, when it happens in Episode 9, it would feel earned. But that would have required having a grand plan from the beginning, which sadly wasn't the case. .

 

Rey and Finn shared the TFA vision originally. They held hands with Maz; or rather Maz held hands with them. That looks like Rey and Kylo and Finn and Kylo. Rey and Kylo is VII-IX. Then Kylo became a 'traitor', like FN-2187, and joined Leia's cause, like TLJ Finn. (Something else happened off screen, and Ben returned as the last Skywalker. Maybe a 'somehow I've always known' moment. Apparently, he knew Rey had the 2 lightsabers with her)

I think they just moved Finn the jedi to post-TROS stories. He had to be Obi Wan the general before being Obi Wan the jedi. But before that, he had to join the cause, and not merely Rey, and before that he had to become a traitor.

Ben has not reappeared. Maybe Finn will finally have his vision and will bring Ben and Rey together in some way. So, perhaps reincarnation; Vader was also Jake Lloyd and preceded Jake Lloyd (1983>1999)

 

JB: During BLM movement
Disney's SW:

JB does interview talking about black experience and important things including how SW did him dirty and every poc character.
Disney's SW: Did anyone say baby Yoda.

They could have dropped this news anytime. They aren't fooling anyone.
Also, didn't succeed Disney because JB, Finn, TFA, TLJ and TROS are still trending or were trending. You can't shut this conversation up.
This is why my first response to that first tweet was an eye-roll and why these brands, corporate grandstanding mean nothing.

 

It would be great if post-TROS stories fulfill some of the possibilities that were teased for Finn’s characters. There’s certainly ways to do that. But that won’t change anything for Boyega or, even more importantly, for the millions of people who watch the movies, versus the thousands who read the books. But still, getting some good Finn stories would be rewarding...

 

@reyvision

BS. JJ made a movie that takes a 1 year gap. If he wanted Finn to be a Jedi or lead Storm troopers, he could've made him a trainee in the meantime with a small convo explaining how they found out, or he could've had Finn contacting Storm troopers with a small convo explaining he's met with them off screen as well. Resistance was left with 20 people. JJ could have used his imagination to how they filled their ranks. Instead, he wasted 2 acts on various McGuffin chases because his cast wanted to hang out together. This is well documented. Daisy, John and Oscar all went on the record that they wanted to finally have scenes together. And that meant bye bye individual story arcs. It's very simple. So what they got is Finn and Poe tagging along with Rey who was doing personal investigation. All JJ choices and this one was made to please his cast who is responsible for forcing his hand. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't CT, who wrote the movie during TLJ production, do much better with Finn's arc and had rebellion on Coruscant and Finn waving a flag like The Patriot and what not? Point being, he found the way despite TLJ setting nothing up. Likewise, TLJ (and TFA) didn't set up Palaptine either yet JJ found a way to bring him back (but didn't find a way to give Finn any character arc let alone Jedi/leader). I get why John has blindness to JJ's faults - he gave him the big break and seems willing to accommodate cast suggestions/demands - but all TROS problems and missed opportunities are JJ's choice. All of them.

 

Now we just need Daisy to say, "yeah and what was up with me making out with the dude that killed all those good guys throughout the trilogy?!?" Yeah right, like that would ever happen.

 

Maz training Finn and developing his FS and him using it to help initiate a stormtrooper rebellion is another path aside of the Jedi path. It's hard to believe some of these writers get paid $$$ given how small their imaginations were.

 

No one is praising TROS or saying it did things right. It failed tremendously. But TLJ left him with nothing for Finn. TLJ decided Finn's story wasn't as important. JJ was left with a huge mess come TROS, not just with Finn, but with multiple issues, and he was trying to end a 9 part saga. TLJ didn't set up squat.

FWIW, I wasn't a fan of DOTF Finn either. It involved him being captured and enslaved. It was very tone-deaf.

 

yeah classic damage control. I guess they'll have to speed up the trailer for S2 now that Release Date didn't trend.

@reyvision TLJ didn't set up squat which also gave JJ freedom to go in any direction he liked. he chose ROTJ rip-off all the way to bringing back Palaptine. So no, things not being set up were not a problem. The problem was JJ's selection of what thing that wasn't set up to put in the movie.

 

Agreed - and Boyega got that too. I never blamed JJ for what went wrong with Finn and Rey's characters - looks like the actors knew the deal too.

 

I think I'll take Boyega's words on this over yours. He said the problem started way before TROS, and he even praised JJ for trying to fix the mess. JJ couldn't fix the mess, but it was a mess. I'm not sure anyone could fix the mess that we were left with after TLJ.

 

But wouldn’t it be great if she came out and said, “Wait, what? I thought that was for the blooper reel.”

Honestly, I wouldn’t want the cast to suddenly start airing all grievances. But it is refreshing to see Boyega feeling comfortable enough with being honest about his impression. The whole Disney era is so tightly wound, with so much painful silence from trying to look perfect. Their lack of transparency is unseemly. And even for obsessive fans like me, it can be easy to miss bigger issues if they’re not discussed honestly in some form or another.

Most people won’t read Boyega’s interview or even be thinking about the sequels almost a year after they concluded. But it’s a fact that there were opportunities not taken. And I would hope at least the filmmaking industry might try to learn from others’ failures. And seeing the actual actors be part of that conversation, rather than hints of it coming only from sensationalist rumor mills, is a positive development.

 

I'm all for the airing of grievances. Maybe it will help insure Disney doesn't make the same mistakes again.

 

Daisy seemed happy with TROS, but she wasn't happy while filming TLJ and she did voice her issues then. I'm not sure she would now, though who knows. She might now after seeing what John's said.

 

Same here! Let the airing of grievances...BEGIN!!!

 

I don't even like this being made JJ vs RJ because it is bigger than that.
TFA was the parade but you got kicked down a hill at the end of it but no big deal. You can get up and keeping going.
TLJ came in, picked up a gun and shot you in the chest. Why more serious issue that is hard to recover from.
TROS did a very bad patched up job but it at least tried to save you. We also know this movie was more messed up with in post than others because of Disney panic after TLJ.
JJ is to blame but RJ clearly has bigger blame for completely ignoring any set up in TFA.
The bigger blame is with Lucasfilm and Disney for not having any vision, for a allowing directors to not adhered to any plan and for using Finn as bait and switch.
The problem is the fact Disney/Lucasfilm thought that it was ok to do this:
"what I would say to Disney is do not bring out a black character, market them to be much more important in the franchise than they are and then have them pushed to the side. It’s not good. I’ll say it straight up.”
It is not and they need to be called out for so they or other studios don't continued to do this.

 

Remember, Poe died early on in the scripting process and was only brought back based on Isaac himself (and a desire, purportedly, by Kennedy and JJA to have him in a move where he actually survives). That makes the decision to ramp up his character arc (...) all the more galling to fans of Boyega and those who wanted Finn to be more than a sidekick. Poe went from quicksand feed to general of the Resistance. Finn, well, he...rode a horse.

If the three sequel movies were treated, developmentally, like those of the previous two trilogies, each would have had a defined three-year production cycle, no overlap. Finn's story would have had more time to breath, as would EpVIII and IX. By rushing into an every-other-year release schedule, Disney accelerated themselves right past good narrative decisions. Well, that and not having the screenwriters and directors sitting down for a long weekend or so to discuss overarching plotlines and character journeys, mythic symmetry, pacing, et al, so that the films viewed together look like the third act of a three act, nine-film saga, and not a Frankenstein's monster of conflicting artistic visions.

Finn is an obvious casualty of Disney's loose approach to story. He's not alone, but it's perhaps the most egregious example. And in a time where identity politics matter more than ever, the damage to a character became a cultural disappointment, relegating the character to sci-fi black sidekick trope status - a plot device at best, not developed as a rounded character, ultimately disposable. What boils down to scattershot decision making robs fans of entertainment, sure, but also turns what could be an icon into a frustrating, missed opportunity.

 

The problem is they saw it as punching up.

They brought out a male looking like they’re the Jedi and more important than they are, then have them pushed aside for the surprised female hero rising.

 

As much as I like Solo, there's hints of Disney being a bit tone deaf when it comes to diversity there, as well.

The gang - 1 middle-aged white guy, one alien, one black woman. Nice, good start... but the middle-aged white guy turns out to be the leader of the gang, and the only one in most of the movie, whereas the other two are killed off after a few minutes of screen time. Swing and a miss.

So it isn't just the ST - it isn't just Abrams or Johnson - other Disney SW material sometimes has the problem too. Perhaps Disney just doesn't quite get meaningful diversity rather than tokenism - yet.

 

i'd disagree with you on that one. TLJ gave him a story about facing his fears and finding things to fight for not to die for. The story for TROS should have been pretty simple, have him adapting to a leadership postion possibley even showing other stormtroopers how to come to terms with what has happened to them and deprograming them so to speak.

I always thought they should have done a referse Marvel release. IE Ep7 then 2 or 3 movies about indvidual characters, EP8 then 3 more and so on. It would have worked better as then you wouldn't have had to cram so much character develpoment into each movie.

But yeah the incredibly short development cycle hurt the movies

 

TLJ's story gave John nothing but a repeat of his TFA story, only with a different girl. I'm glad you were able to enjoy it, but John, the actor portraying the character, did not and I feel his truth for why he feels this way outweighs most of our opinions on the subject. He was there everyday, we weren't. He knows the behind the scenes stories, we don't. He was disappointed with his TLJ arc, and I feel that opinion needs to be listened to.

I wish Thandie Newton had been the leader, such a missed opportunity, IMO.

 

Yes but he didn't single out Isaac as "they knew what to do with him, gave him all nuance" [paraphrase] but put him in the Team Diversity Done Dirty ( aka Team Triple D) even though that clearly wasn't the case with Isaac. What you say is true 100% and Isaac role expansion hurt Finn role more than anything else. But not according to this interview.

There's clear "I won't say anything bad/controversial about X " even if there's a reason not to be so tolerant. Like JJ defense. JJ made Finn a comic relief and a janitor and his movie pulled the bait and switch. So while I understand loyalty to the one who gave him the big break, it does frame the interview as "X vs Y" even if that may not have been the idea. But editorial clearly jumped on it. Some people are given a pass some are not.

 

Well, there were calls for boycott if Rose was in Episode IX. Didn't Kelly write an essay about being bullied by fans for being Asian? So that makes two with negative experience.

BTW, scared and sweaty was JJ's idea. His boy's.