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ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    As of TLJ they are all about as interesting as watching paint dry. I thought they all had a lot of potential post TFA. Since then I can’t wait for something new and better so we can forget the whole ST business.
     
  2. alwayslurking

    alwayslurking Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2019
    =D==D==D=
     
  3. godisawesome

    godisawesome Retired Mod of the Sequel Campaign star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Finn, interestingly, has effectively three scenes to choose to fight the FO and with the Resistance, two of which take place in situations where he has the opportunity to make his choice without it being an immediate life or death situation, whereas I’d argue Rey effectively only has two scenes where she makes that choice, and only one devoid of the life or death situation.

    Finn first returned to Han when the Hosnian System is destroyed, even though he has his escape ship, and his mind was not immediately focused on Rey. He then volunteers for the SKB mission, ostensibly only for Rey’s sake... but once he’s back in a life or death situation on SKB, he prioritizes the needs of the many (the Galaxy and the Resistance) over the few (Rey and himself.) Rey, meanwhile, rejects her first opportunity, then goes captured by Kylo and is forced into a life or death situation when she first starts choosing to fight them, before making the decisions under a calmer situation at the very end...

    ...And yet Johnson thinks Rey has the perspective and motivation to be a Resistance member, but not Finn.

    The root of the cause is almost certainly Johnson wanting Finn focused away from Rey more than anything else, and probably also just having his plot be more of a late production addendum to a smaller story, if the reports fo him expanding Finn and Poe’s roles after TFA was successful are true.
    ...Come to think of it, Finn’s empathy and impulse towards selflessness are two major traits he has is TFA that are very absent in TLJ... and mirrors the increase in selfishness and apathy the other characters have in TLJ in comparison to the previous film as well.

    FN-2187 got introduced stopping to help a fallen stormtrooper, and his real moment of existential horror comes when ordered to commit an horrific atrocity and being too human to do it, and his stare at Kylo has some elements of disgust as well as horror. Finn’s fast friendship with Poe and his desire to help Rey out against the thugs and then feeling responsibility for putting her in the FO’s sights, and his prioritization of the Galaxy over his and Rey’s escape on SKB and his own earlier on Takonda again shows his empathy and larger perspective in spades. Even his flaws, like lying to Rey and BSing his way onto the SKB mission, showcase some empathy and perspective, because he shows genuine guilt at misleading people for their sakes, not his own (unlike a certain dark haired pretty boy who loves pity parties.)

    But he’s not alone in having the POV stripped from him in TLJ. Everyone’s more selfish and shortsighted in that film: Luke’s a selfish coward uncaring about the deaths in the Galaxy, Poe’s a glory hound, and even Rey cares more about her desires than she does others (leaving Kylo unfettered after waking up with him unconscious and still a sworn enemy of everyone in the Galaxy.)

    I feel that’s probably both Johnson being emotionally disconnected from TFA’s story (...and maybe the OT’s as well), but also his “film noir” sensibilities - I think he genuinely, on a reflexive level, thinks of human beings, even heroes, as being more selfish and myopic than what Star Wars usually uses, and regards more virtuous characters as quaint or exceedingly rare. Even in Knives Out, the way his story treats Marta as the only completely good and selfless character in the main cast, leans heavily on her being naive and basically one-in-a-million.
    The real problem wasn’t that he was sidelines because Rey and Kylo were “far more interesting” - that would imply he lost his starring due to audiences having that reaction, akin to what usually happens to Cyclops whenever Wolverine shows up in X-Men.

    The real problem was that even before TFA was released, Johnson and LFL were already sidelining him... and anything inconvenient in Rey’s personality and characterization... in favor of Kylo and the Kylo-centric relationship Rey would have with him. TLJ’s script was already written by the time TFA came out, and to be honest... I’d say it’s clear that Boyega as Finn paired with Ridley as Rey was actually more measurably popular and engaging for overall audiences than the Rey and Kylo relationship that the ST saddled itself with afterwards.

    Rey was more popular in the films where she was partnered with Finn in part because he was a co-Star for her - what chemistry and appeal she could have had bouncing off Kylo was killed in comparison because LFL didn’t really want her conflicted about Kylo, and because frankly Kylo Ren is not nearly as good of a role for a great actor as Finn in TFA was.

    Boyega delivered a more meaty performance in TFA than Driver did in all three films because Driver is stuck with an “appetizer” type of character, instead of “main course,” which Boyega got at least once.
     
  4. Darkstrider

    Darkstrider Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Nothing wrong with saving who you love, I get that. And him caring about her before other things in TFA. I guess I'm not seeing why is it negative that he did? They bonded after their Jakku escape, it's natural he cares for her well being?
     
  5. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Fair enough... Maybe he did "absolutely nothing" for me because they did "absolutely nothing" with him haha. You know what I find absurd? That they actually tried to market him as the Jedi (See the poster etc) ...somehow I knew all along he wouldn't be! I knew Rey would be the one right from the get go. I guess that's why the ST got so silly. Making the main star of the trilogy a Skywalker was just expected. It's not creative or witty to make a film where you are introduced to suspects in a who dunnit only to turn around at the end and go "Ha - it was the next door neighbour all along!" Really? We only saw him twice and had zero clues onscreen...that's just annoying! [face_shame_on_you]

    The PT - Grandfather :bluesaber:
    The OT - Father :greensaber:
    The ST - Daughter (tries to find yellow lightsaber...can't) :bluesaber:

    But no, let's make her a Palpatine...??? :oops:

    Sorry, back to Finn... Um, nah I have nothing more to add.
     
    Darkstrider likes this.
  6. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    A new update regarding Boyega’s career. A recent announcement was made of another film he is set to star in called “The Test”.

    https://deadline.com/2020/09/john-boyega-gavin-hood-payman-maadi-eone-drama-the-test-1234579543/

    Entertainment One is soon taking out a package, an adaptation of the Sylvain Neuvel novella The Test. John Boyega and Payman Maadi star in the Gavin Hood-drama about a soft-spoken immigrant (Maadi) taking a citizen evaluation test, and a brilliant young behavioral psychologist (Boyega) supervising “the test” confront a terrorist group lead by a far-right fanatic. Hood, who directed Tsotsi and more recently the tense drone drama Eye In The Sky and Official Secrets. He wrote the script. Erwin Stoff will produce with Zev Foreman and Ilda Diffley overseeing for eOne.

    And this is a perfect opportunity to use the resources of Deadline to lay out reminders of other post Star Wars films he is attached to.

    First there is “Naked Singularity” which has already been filmed:

    https://deadline.com/2019/04/olivia-cooke-john-boyega-scott-free-naked-singularity-1202591129/

    Olivia Cooke has signed on to star opposite John Boyega In Naked Singularity, the heist fil helmed by first-time feature director Chase Palmer, who also penned the screenplay with David Matthews. Scott Free Productions is producing the pic, which is an adaptation of the same-titled novel by Sergio De La Pava.

    The story centers on an idealistic young New York City public defender burned out by the system and in the middle of a mental breakdown. Seeing signs of the universe collapsing around him, he gets suspended and decides to rob a $75M drug deal off one of his clients.


    He is cast as the lead as well in Jeremy Saulnier’s next work (Saulnier is one of the best young filmmakers to emerge from the 2010s). Its title at this point is “Rebel Ridge” and it has a pretty good cast”

    https://deadline.com/2020/02/don-johnson-james-cromwell-john-boyega-rebel-ridge-netflix-1202868126/

    Knives Out and Watchmen star Don Johnson has been cast alongside John Boyega in the Netflix film Rebel Ridge from writer/director Jeremy Saulnier. Also joining the cast are Erin Doherty (The Crown), James Badge Dale (Mickey and the Bear, Hold The Dark), Zsane Jhe (Underground Railroad, Good Trouble) and Oscar Nominee James Cromwell (Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom, American Horror Story: Asylum).

    The pic is described as a deeply human yet high-velocity thriller that explores systemic American injustice in the context of bone-breaking action, ever-coiling suspense, and pitch-black humor.


    Another one coming our way is the intriguing sounding “Borderland” with another strong cast:

    https://deadline.com/2020/07/john-b...ynor-star-ira-thriller-borderland-1202974762/

    IRA thriller Borderland is set to feature an exciting cast of John Boyega (Star Wars), Jack Reynor (Midsommar), Jodie Turner-Smith (Queen & Slim) and Felicity Jones (The Theory Of Everything).

    The film will follow an Irish paramilitary, Michael (Reynor), who witnesses the shooting of his pregnant wife at the hands of an SAS sergeant named Tempest (Boyega) when a border ambush goes wrong. When Tempest is sent back to London to lead a covert counter-terrorist operation, Michael joins a ruthless active service unit (ASU) wreaking havoc in the capital. For Michael, the mission is personal – to hunt down Tempest – and he’ll stop at nothing to avenge his wife’s death.



    And with the humorous sounding “They Cloned Tyrone” he has just been joined by two other heavy-hitters:

    https://deadline.com/2020/09/jamie-...e-teyonah-parris-john-boyega-cast-1203027407/

    EXCLUSIVE: Oscar winner Jamie Foxx and Teyonah Parris, who stars in the upcoming Candyman reboot, have come aboard They Cloned Tyrone. The pair join previously announced lead John Boyega in Macro and Netflix’s sci-fi feature film, which will mark the directorial debut of Creed 2 scribe Juel Taylor.

    Taylor penned the screenplay with Tony Rettenmaier. The plot follows a series of eerie events that thrusts an unlikely trio (Boyega, Foxx, Parris) onto the trail of a nefarious government conspiracy in this pulpy mystery caper.

    Macro secured rights to They Cloned Tyrone in a bidding war, developed it and sold it to the streamer.


    Of course there is still the “Small Axe” anthology work by the great Steve McQueen that I posted about last time. It will start airing on Amazon Prime (in America at least) in November.

    And there’s more. Boyega will be doing something different, a ten-part sci fi thriller done in podcast form. I can't wait for this to be available for downloading:

    https://deadline.com/2020/08/john-b...ted-podcast-iheartpodcast-network-1203002901/

    EXCLUSIVE: iHeartRadio, FlynnPictureCo., Psychopia Pictures and UpperRoom Productions have defied the pandemic to complete production on There Be Monsters, a 10-part narrative sci-fi thriller podcast. Starring are Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker‘s John Boyega and American Crime: The Assassination of Gianni Versace‘s Darren Criss. There Be Monsters is produced by Beau Flynn of FlynnPictureCo., Dan Bush of Psychopia Pictures and Boyega’s UpperRoom Productions, and it will be available later this year on the iHeartPodcast Network.

    Boyega plays Jack Locke, a mysterious hero with a vendetta who infiltrates a Silicon Valley body hacking startup run by an enigmatic CEO Max Fuller (Criss), whose highly secretive creations promise to enhance human biology in incredible ways. Of course, every drug has a side effect.



    Finally he has signed a deal with Netflix as a behind-the-scenes Hollywood player:

    https://deadline.com/2020/03/john-boyega-netflix-movie-slate-east-west-star-wars-1202878183/

    Star Wars actor John Boyega is teaming with Netflix via his UpperRoom banner to develop non-English language films focusing on west and east Africa.

    UpperRoom said it “will develop film projects based on stories, cast, characters, crew, literary properties, mythology, screenplays and/or other elements in or around African countries.”

    “I am thrilled to partner with Netflix to develop a slate of non-English language feature films focused on African stories, and my team and I are excited to develop original material,” commented Boyega. “We are proud to grow this arm of our business with a company that shares our vision.”


    So from the looks of things he will be quite busy and his career appears to be taking off. That may come as a disappointment to those who have been saying since TLJ that he would have the least remarkable career post Star Wars of all the new cast ( some refer to it as him having a Mark Hamill type of career following his Luke Skywalker days post Return of the Jedi). And of course there have been those who were very vocal that he wouldn’t get work again following his criticism of the sequel trilogy as well as his being outspoken on social issues. We’ll have to wait for the final results of these projects but it can’t be denied that his plate is full. Go, John!
     
    NHB0M, EHT , godisawesome and 11 others like this.
  7. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    I wouldn't have an issue with RJ having him remain reluctant to join the Resistance if Rian was interested enough in his storyline to give us a good and worthy development out of it. Going back to long ago discussions Finn, despite (or because of ) what he had seen and done, may have been more interested in staying clear out of the conflict altogether and finally putting his life ahead of any cause or fight. Nothing wrong with that. But what he experiences on Canto Bight must shift his thinking and finally lead him to making a moral stand. That shift however needed to be something that could be legitimately convincing to us as viewers. Frankly that's not what we got. If Finn had witnessed something emotionally jarring like the transporting of children who were to be new child soldiers for the First Order and that the rich folks of Canto Bight had been financing and facilitating this form of slave labor, then I could see that being the final straw. He needed to experience something that reminded him of that pain he went through, what he did not need was having someone like Rose tell him what he should be thinking and thereby leading him in one direction. That's boring.

    Of course it would have helped if he was portrayed in TFA the same way he had been in toy merchandise a year leading up to the release : a trained warrior. Also if he had had some blood on his hands by participating in earlier battles and if he had been perhaps more sullen and guarded around others while also being the kickass guy I thought we were going to get, that may have made his hesitancy to join the Resistance more acceptable to some viewers. The opportunities were there; TPTB failed him.
     
  8. godisawesome

    godisawesome Retired Mod of the Sequel Campaign star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It’s not a bad thing for him to care about Rey at all...

    Unless you’re Rian Johnson, trying to replace Finn with Kylo Ren as the male lead and main screen partner for Rey, and are determined to do everything you can to “break up” the co-protagonist nature of Rey and Finn.

    Then, because you want to de-emphasize Rey and Finn’s bond, and can’t just rely on making it clear one character values the new guy over the other (Rey caring more about Kylo’s feelings than about what he did to Finn), so you instead have the story castigate the other character for caring about their old partner... and introduce a new screen partner for them to try and pull them away (Rose).

    Though honestly, Johnson could have saved himself some wasted work and done his job more effectively by just actually writing Rose as an interesting character with an interesting relationship with Finn, instead of getting bored with his initial ideas for them and just laboring Tran with a boring character that wasted her skills and dropped her natural chemistry with Boyega after her first scene.

    I feel like the difference that really killed the team-up between Boyega and Tran in comparison to Boyega and Ridley was that Abrams embraced ambition and improvement with his take on the character, and simply cared about both of them and their chemistry, while Johnson... did none of that. His statement about cutting Finn’s first introduction because it would have required introducing a conflict between Finn and Rose and he “didn’t want to do it”, the fact the entire story is supposedly the result of being asked to increase Finn’s role from his earlier drafts, and the simple emotionally dead way that their relationship unfolds shows Johnson didn’t really care about even his own new character in this pairing - Rose was there to be Not-Rey with Finn, and who cares about the rest?
     
  9. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014

    Boom! Well stated. You hit it on the nose, the bolded part in particular which were my initial thoughts after seeing the movie. Can't go without saying that in my estimation Reylos talked up Rose on social media for a similar reason. She was merely a tool to ensure that Finn would not be an obstacle to Rey & Kylo. But outside of that they had no real use for her nor did they devote energy talking up her story and any potential character arc in store for her. No, she was just cover. Like Rian intended.
     
  10. ScorpioGirl

    ScorpioGirl Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Is anyone else bothered by Finn teasing Poe about being a former Spice Runner and being a bit judgemental about it? I mean, Poe never gave him a hard time about being a stormtrooper, yet the second Poe is no boy scout, Finn is judgemental and slightly disrespectful.

    That reaction also leads me to believe that he will be pissed that Rey kissed KYLO REN of all people and "wanted to take his hand".
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
    Darkstrider likes this.
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I thought Finn teasing Poe made for some good dialogue. “You were a stormtrooper? We could do this all day.” I see your point, but I was not bothered by the scene.

    On Finn being pissed at Rey—I would be disappointed if he weren’t, or if he even gave her the time of day at this point.
     
  12. godisawesome

    godisawesome Retired Mod of the Sequel Campaign star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It’s one of those situations I wouldn’t be surprised if LFL wants to avoid - Finn confronting Rey over her “bond” with Kylo. Because about the only way to have that scene work with the two living characters being written well would be to point out and embrace criticism of the dead character.
     
  13. ScorpioGirl

    ScorpioGirl Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Mace Windu's memory and reputation was ruined posthumously. I don't think they care about criticizing the dead.
     
    Darkstrider likes this.
  14. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I liked the deleted scene where we find out Finn and Poe were former Spice Girls.
     
  15. alwayslurking

    alwayslurking Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2019
    This is one of the (many) reasons I hate Reylo so much. It basically requires Rey to live on her own little plot island. If she has any meaningful interactions with other characters, the ridiculousness with the way Rey is being written can no longer be ignored.
     
  16. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    I can't see Rey or Finn or Poe ever discussing it in any significant detail, lol. At least not any time soon. It seems like an area LFL will ignore. They killed him off right after the kiss because they obviously didn't want to deal with it. It's very having their cake and eating it, too.
     
  17. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Kylo Ren died because he then read all the negative reactions to the kiss on Reddit, and then he died laughing.
     
    Darkstrider likes this.
  18. Def Trooper

    Def Trooper Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Yup. They've already skipped past that, that's what the no-dialogue Trio Hug was for. "All is well and nothing else matters because we're a family" and all that stuff.

    The character writing in this trilogy is a joke, and TROS is the punchline. Rey spends the whole movie dunking on Finn, but all he is allowed to do is follow her around like a loyal puppy, trusting Rey to a fault even when she pushes him down, heals his mortal enemy (leaving him free), and bails out with the last Wayfinder.

    Poe at least got to be pissed about Rey immediately stealing a boat from people they just met and potentially getting herself killed with it.
     
  19. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    There's also the death of Han and Finn's reaction to it.
    The thing is, that I think they didn't have to do what they did to do this. They could've delved into the stormtroope thing for the character and began building that more into the DNA of the character.
    I wouldn't go as far as say Finn sees Kylo as his mortal enemy as far as the movie's have shown. And I see her pushing him down as a way to keep him away from the fighting. I don't remember her dunking hon Finn really.
     
  20. Darkstrider

    Darkstrider Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2020
    why then didn't JJ threw back the ball to Finn court in TRoS? He could do whatever he wanted leaving Rey's attempt to reach Kylo in TLJ as just that, an attempt. In fact there never was a better suited moment to turn it back around than post TLJ's Rey's closing the door on Kylo. With that, JJ had open narrative to do that which you claim was his original intent in TFA was, making Finn the lead. Yet, he didn't do that...I wonder why.
     
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Abrams certainly should have; I have not seen many people disputing that other than those who want to de-emphasize Finn or laugh at the bully “humor” that was his screaming Rey’s name.

    “B...bu...but [insert popularity statistics here]” does not change my opinion one iota, since an idea or a character being “popular” changes nothing, much less making that idea or character “good.”
     
  22. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I actually liked when Rey knocked Finn down. I thought she did it to protect him. Would it be nicer to let Kylo kill him? That fight was the highlight of the film for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    She did do it to protect him.
     
  24. godisawesome

    godisawesome Retired Mod of the Sequel Campaign star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Well, the implication from Boyega’s interviews, concept art, and BTS reports on Episode IX (both before and after it became TROS) is that LFL ordered Reylo as part of the general push to make Kylo the male lead and to give Ben a redemption story, and possibly even ordered Finn’s story cut down as well.

    Boyega and the concept art have implied Finn’s story in TROS was originally “Jedi-Pirate boarding action” instead of the mere fire fight he had in the released film, and nobody in Bad Robot sounds particularly enthusiastic or happy about the kiss between Rey and Kylo, and they’ve even implicitly apologized or tried to recontextualize it.

    Either way, Abrams did *not* have total freedom with TROS - he had limited time and certain directives from LFL at minimum, and their previous directives had been focused on Kylo to everyone else’s expense, so it’s not hard to see why Finn is still getting screwed over, and Boyega doesn’t blame Abrams, so...
     
  25. Darkstrider

    Darkstrider Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2020
    he could have stepped down if he disagreed with it. Or have it both, make Kylo Rey's trophy wife with Finn still being the second to Rey lead with the bigger part in the story.
    I think, if ST had shortcomings, it was definitely too broad of the scope of characters introduced in TFA with not enough time to give the proper spotlight to all of them throughout the trilogy.