ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Poe and Rey were the first people to treat Finn like an actual human being. Poe straight-up refused to dehumanize Finn by calling him by a number and asked Finn's permission to call him by an actual name.

His conversation with Poe indicates that he has been dehumanized his whole life.

TFA Script
Poe: "I saw it! Hey, what's your name?"
Finn: "FN-2187!"
Poe reacts, this tells him volumes about FN-2187's history.
Poe: "Fn-whaa?"
Finn: "That's the only name they ever gave me!"
Poe: "Well, I ain't using it! FN, huh? Finn. I'm going to call you Finn! That all right?"
Even in the madness, Finn can't suppress his smile.
Finn: "Finn. Yeah, Finn, I like that! I like that!
Poe: "I'm Poe. Poe Dameron."
Finn: "Good to meet you, Poe."
Poe: "Good to meet you too, Finn!"

On Takodana, he also tells Rey that the reason he lied to her was because he was ashamed of having been a part of the First Order. He lied because of misplaced guilt since we know that he was a slave that never had a real choice in the matter.

Finn: "I'm not Resistance. I'm not a hero. I'm a Stormtrooper. Like all of them, I was taken from a family I'll never know. And raised to do one thing... But my first battle, I made a choice. I wasn't going to kill for them. So I ran. Right into you. And you looked at me like no one ever had. I was ashamed of what I was. But I'm done with the First Order. I'm never going back."

Finn cared about Rey because she was kind and treated/looked at him like he was a person.

Finn's backstory means it makes perfect sense for him to form attachments so quickly to people who treat him like a person. It matters a lot to him because he's been dehumanized his entire life.



It's the same reason that Rey is so moved by Finn coming back for her: she was abandoned by her parents and grew up having to fend for herself.

Finn: "What happened -- did he hurt you?"
Rey: "Finn. What are you doing here?!"
Finn: "We came back for you."
She is speechless -- this is all she's ever wanted anyone to do. Chewie talks -- and Rey's eyes nearly tear up.
Finn: "What'd he say?"
Rey shrugs, smiles, though nearly in tears.
Rey: "... That it was your idea."
Finn awkwardly smiles. It's his nature. They embrace.
Rey: "Thank you."



I'm also not going to look poorly on a person who's just escaped life-long slavery for being scared and making poor choices, especially when he's still shown trying to do right by people in spite of his fear and flaws.

For example, he gives the Resistance information about Starkiller Base to help them devise a plan and while he lies about knowing a way to shut down the shields, he always intended on figuring out a way to shut them down when he got onto the base and he proceeds to do just that.

Finn is a flawed but good person who ultimately braves his worst fear to help the people he cares about. It's part of why he's my favorite character in the film.

 

But it shows an intention that he takes action in, in him to be noble, for someone he doesn't know. I think he isn't shown to have a crush on Rey in that moment. Why does him not being able to save her, make him better? His intentions can still exist irregardless of that.

Why is wanting to help someone based on caring about that person less noble than wanting to help a cause based on caring about that cause? Isn't it something someone cares about still?

 

This would be a more compelling story for Finn if the 'became' part didn't happen in the opening minutes of the movie.

Finn works as a character entirely based on Boyega's winsome performance. As a former Stormtrooper, his character makes really no sense, and TFA's script ensures that at every turn he's kept as safe and uncomplicated as humanly possible. He's completely morally pure, with no demons to grapple with, and with absolutely nothing to regret.

Imagine the potential of an actual veteran Stormtrooper who's fought battles for the First Order but refuses to fight anymore when he sees the pain of his comrades. The regrets he could grapple with over the course of the films.

But no. Actually, Jakku is stated to be his first battle ever, so he's actually never hurt anyone in his entire life, even unwillingly, and before that he did a non-combat job that we're going to turn into a joke and an expositional tool.

Also, he's been raised since he was a baby by an authoritarian military state, but he somehow was spat out of this murder-bot-machine as a well adjusted, charming young man who is very big on quipping, and you'd never know he was ever raised as a child by a horrible regime to be a Stormtrooper if the movie didn't make it explicit.

His characterisation makes sense when we realise that they wanted him to be some sort of smuggler type character and they changed it to "Stormtrooper who ran away" but they clearly had no interest at all in devoting significant time or energy to it in TFA's script, and sadly this never improved over either TLJ or TROS, either.

 

Good grief. Are Kylo fans that desperate that they are resorting to ridiculous levels of bothsidesism nonsense?

 

Can't argue against any of this because these are points people like myself were making as far back as 2015.

 

Thinking about Finn, I wish we’d gotten more insight into just what exactly it was like to be raised in the First Order. We never really get into that world despite several opportunities. I wonder if the directors felt they didn’t have anything to add to what films or books like THX-1138, 1984, and Brave New World have done? Or perhaps they didn’t want to accidentally draw too many parallels to the real world? It’s a missed opportunity in any case.

Thinking of that just now made me imagine a version of Episode VIII that went in a far more abstract direction, where Finn is in his coma for most of the film but we get to actually see into his mind. We see key moments of his past, what it was like to be raised and trained by a dystopic, militaristic technocracy, but we also see Finn confront that past as he reevaluates it, possibly with a version of Rey or Poe who represent a part of him he can talk to along the way as he breaks through layers of conditioning, before finally waking up toward the last third of the film in order to participate in whatever climax that version of the movie would’ve had.

Just a thought. I’m sure it’s an idea with lots of flaws; I don’t love the idea of Finn not taking action for a long period of time. But then again, I do think action can be overrated and sometimes there’s a lot of work that needs to be done internally before taking action. Perhaps it would work as a setup for Finn eventually helping other First Order soldiers turn away from their conditioning.

Anyway, it’s just a weird idea, and maybe “not Star Wars enough,” though of course that was the big chip on Lucasfilm’s shoulder when making these movies. But Finn simply has such an interesting psychological setup, I wish they’d explored it better.

And I’m sure there’s less gimmicky ways of exploring Finn’s background than this silly idea. If the sequels were a TV series rather than movies, maybe using his coma as a means of exploring his past could sort of work. Though it would still be very much a gimmick. Darn it, ‘90s TV, get out of my head!

 

One gets scared but ultimately does the right thing; the other becomes a serial killer because his mum had a full time job.

certain fans: they’re the same!

 

Finn was selfish and only done everything because of Rey. Kylo was manipulated by Snoke right from when he was born.

 

Finn was taken from his family at a young age and raised to be cannonfodder by a regime that dehumanized him to such an extent that he wasn't even allowed a name. After being unable to kill innocent people, he deserts and meets an enemy pilot who treats him like a human being. After they crash, he's unable to locate him, much to his distress. He eventually runs into a scavenger and lies to her about his identity because he feels ashamed that he used to be a stormtrooper, even though it's established that being a stormtrooper was never his choice meaning he lies out of a sense of misplaced guilt.

The two end up helping each other escape from a First Order bombing and have two miniature adventures together. He later admits the truth to her and leaves because he's terrified of the organization that kidnapped him as a child and has committed numerous atrocities including that he bore firsthand witness to. He asks her to come with him, but she refuses and the two part ways. After seeing said organization deploy a planet-wide genocide weapon, he rushes back to find her and after a fight, he witnesses her being kidnapped.

He offers the Resistance all the information he has on Starkiller Base, which helps them formulate a plan of attack. He then lies his way onto the mission so he can be sure that his friend is saved. He is terrified of the First Order, but he still doesn't hesitate to confront his worst fear for the safety of his friend. On the base, he admits that he lied but that he intends on keeping his word. He later proves this by figuring out a way to disable the shields and provides further intel. He delays finding his friend for the sake of helping the Resistance first.

He is reunited with his friend and later, they witness their mutual companion die at the hands of his son. While trying to defend themselves against said son, Finn fights him to protect his unconscious friend, which gives her enough time to wake up.

Finn is so frightened by the First Order that it motivates him to run and yet, his love for his friend motivates him to face his worst fear for the sake of making sure she's safe, even if it means squaring off against an opponent that he knows he cannot beat.

But yes, Finn is a selfish person. I mean, just look at some of the things he does in the film!


Look at him refusing to gun down innocent civilians!


Look at him run across that long desert stretch in the heat to help Poe - a man that he barely knows!


Look at him run and embrace Poe because he's just so relieved that this stranger is alive and well!


Look at him show concern for his friend after she was captured!


Look at him shout in horror as his friend is tossed into a tree and look at him as he picks a lightsaber to protect her!

Look at him end the film in a coma because he so selfishly tried to save another person!

My god, audience, I have never seen so selfish a person before!

Being motivated by the selfless love for another human being is the most selfish motivation of all!

Kylo Ren was manipulated by Snoke since birth!

Finn was just kidnapped and dehumanized his whole life by the First Order!

 

Finn really is the "Nobody" going up against Kylo Ren. Both on the wrong side, one broke free, the other didn't. He was a far better foil for everything Kylo Ren represented, in terms of what TLJ was trying to sell as legacy vs. nobody, anyway.

 

That's not said or shown in the movies.

 

I want him to have a green lightsaber. I love the blue, but the ST had so much blue. Let's get some green in there. Finn would look good with green.

 

The entire problem with everything that you wrote their is not a single aspect of what you wrote about Kylo is ever presented on screen. We get one reference to him hearing voices at some point that’s it. It simply fails to work as a comparison between Finny and Kylo because the films never decided on anything with regards to Kylo’s backstory.

 

Kylo is shown as conflicted and struggles between dark and light. Finn however is cheerful and and doesn't seem like someone who was brainwashed from the start. Clearly he was not manipulated like Kylo was.

Finn constantly whoops and cheers a minute after escaping with Poe. Kylo is constantly struggling with his emotions and was manipulated by Snoke very deeply.

Kylo is shown as conflicted and struggles between dark and light. Finn however is cheerful and and doesn't seem like someone who was brainwashed from the start. Clearly he was not manipulated like Kylo was.

Kylo is shown as conflicted and struggles between dark and light. Finn however is cheerful and and doesn't seem like someone who was brainwashed from the start. Clearly he was not manipulated like Kylo was.
Finn constantly whoops and cheers a minute after escaping with Poe. Kylo is constantly struggling with his emotions and was manipulated by Snoke very deeply.

 

None of that is said or shown in the movie. Kylo talks about being conflicted, along with other saying it, and he pouts, but I think never actually expresses a lot of real conflict in actions in the first 2 movies.