ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

I think TFA did a great job with Finn. Marketing bait and switch aside, he was a strong character, he developed, he had set backs, and he was set up to do amazing things in the future.
TLJ, he was motivated by his feelings for Rey they entire time yet he had to be taught to save what he loved (and tazed for trying to do just that)? Finn should not have been separated from Rey the entire film (or put in a leaky bag) and he should not have been kissed by Rose just to keep him away from the mighty white/white ship.
RoS, he yells Rey alot and Rey dgas about him or the rest of the group. What's his arc? Finn should stop worrying about Rey and spend his time with the people who actually care about him. He should also get a last name. At least there were no janitor jokes.

Agreed. The only thing they did with his force sensitivity was to make him act like a snob about it to Poe.

 

Well, for one they retroactively made his "strong-minded" breaking out of First Order conditioning explainable by force sensitivity.

I don't mean to be nitpicky, but lasting against Kylo for even that long in TFA makes more sense to me now. Kylo against a non-force-potential would have been even more one-sided.

And Finn sensing Rey's "death" was definitely a character-defining moment Imo.

Plus if he didn't know what ship they transferred the signal to the Resistance would have likely lost the space battle.

 

That's not how the Force works.

 

I wonder if Rey tells Finn how she was brought back to life. Cause she's got some splainin to do.

 

Does Rey even know she died? Or did she just think she was taking a nap? Finn might have to tell her, as he undoubtedly felt it.

 

"Hey, you know that guy that sliced you open and has been trying to kill us for a year? You 'member when I was fighting him and you were worried and I yeeted you away and then I stabbed him and healed him and left him on the DS2 so he could try to kill you again? Well cool story, I KISSED him!!!!"

 

a nap lol. she was seduced by the sleepy side of the force.

 

It’s exactly how the force works, Finn senses things through the force.

 

The way that they handled Finn’s Force development was a great way to setup intrigue in the EU for many Finn and hardcore Star Wars fans, while also not turning the entire film into the Finn saga either. They found a nice balance between him and Poe Dameron where both had interesting support character developments for the millions who will only watch the films, and will never read the books, so that the focus could mostly be on the two leads: Rey & Kylo/Ben.

However, for the rest of us... I suspect a lot of strong stories ahead and even a will they or won’t they with Rey over the years ahead as she trains him (imagine the intimacy written during training scenes in a novel!) so it will be very exciting for FinnRey fans ahead. They will throw some complications getting in the way but I could see them becoming romantic eventually.

And I totally agree that there were a lot of OT Leia parallels for Finn in terms of force development. Bodes well for a a Jedi path ahead!

 

I think Finn (and Rey) were left with the two best possible endings for more stories post-TROS. I'm actually kind of curious what they'll do with Poe, as his story seemed very finished.

Taking out Palpatine is tiring, okay? Rey just wanted to take a long nap.

 

While I agree it’s great that Finn’s force sensitive for future stories it would’ve been nice if it had been firmly established in TFA so that we could’ve had both Rey and Finn learning together on screen.

 

I agree. It would've felt different from the OT, where it was just the one lone hero. The ST does suffer from "repeating the OT" too much.

 

The character development in TLJ is exactly why I think that film did him the most harm. tRoS tries to repair what it can, but leaves his story incomplete.

The problem with Finn learning to sacrifice in TLJ is that he already knew what the stakes were as a former Stormtrooper. He was just afraid to get involved until Rey paid the price for his cowardice. He then led the Resistance to Starkiller, trusted the Force to help take down the shield, took on Kylo Ren. After all of that, as a viewer, I had no doubt Finn who commit to the cause with Rey.

IMO, having him attempt to flee is a regression borne more out of Rian Johnson's writing choices than a natural progression of the character's choices up to that point. And separating Finn from Rey, and in the process the main plot, weakened both characters. They both started out as characters trying to find themselves and where they belonged. Because of the narrative choices in TLJ and the work needed to tie them into a somewhat cohesive trilogy, only Rey ends up finding her own identity (when she adopts the Skywalker last name), and that feels hollow because we still don't have a clear idea of who she is internally or what motivates her.

I think JJ envisioned both Rey and Finn carrying on that Mantle but couldn't get there because of TLJ (Finn never meets Luke before he passes into the Force and they send him away from Leia). Unfortunately, I think that's why they don't include Finn in the ending on Tatooine as well.

For all the development TLJ intended to accomplish for him, it actually stunted his growth.

 

See I don’t think Finn was learning about sacrifice but that there was more than his immediate circle at stake.

In TFA he goes to SKB solely to rescue Rey. He cares so deeply about his friend but is not really invested in resolving the crisis the galaxy is facing. So much so that he’s looking to just hide out in the outer rim for it to blow over. He only helps the resistance if it served in helping Rey. I definitely don’t think he trusts the force given that he doesn’t seem to understand at all what it actually is or means.

As JJ hadn’t made any statement on Finn’s sensitivity Johnson decided to take him in a direction that made sense - make Finn realize what’s at stake. Finn developed into a character that realized he had a role to play in this conflict and that he couldn’t stick his head in the sand. He embraced the Resistance.

Finn isn’t included in the end because there was no narrative need for him to be there. If he’d gone on this force journey with Rey at the end of TFA then things may have been different. JJ couldn’t think of anything to do with Finn in TROS and literally was like “ehhh...guess he’s force sensitive”. It was such a low bar.

 

JP does say the only alternative take he's heard of the ending featured the Resistance with her on Tatooine and had Finn and Rey holding hands. I get why they weren't there (the ending is about Rey and her mentors), but I wonder what it would've looked like. I headcanon they're all on the Falcon waiting for her.

 

"But...it felt like kissing my cousin, I swear!"

"He kind of is now, Rey."

 

I mean Finn sensed a few things in TROS, ala Leia at the end of ESB but in no way should he have been there with Rey to face down the emperor. I hate talking about “levels” of the force because it makes it seem like a video game but at that point Finn would be as useful as Leia would’ve been going up against Palpatine - useless.

Put your dislike of Ben aside and answer what exactly would Finn have added to that confrontation anyway outside of being concerned for Rey? Why does he deserve to be there? Luke has amazing connections with many characters in the OT but they weren’t there either.

Whether you feel like Kylo/Ben is developed or not narratively it would make no sense for him to not be involved in that final confrontation. At that stage he is the last remaining Skywalker in the Skywalker saga. His lineage is directly tied to this embodiment of evil. I agree Ben could’ve absolutely been developed earlier in the ST, you’ve got no disagreement from me. It still 100% worked for me on screen.

I didn’t love the ending of TROS on Tatooine and would’ve preferred and ending of found family. I’m okay with her taking the name Skywalker given that she was reborn with Skywalker life force. Point is she went there to pay respect to her Jedi mentors Luke and Leia neither of which really had a relationship with Finn. It would’ve been great to see what they would’ve done with a Rey and Leia if Carrie hadn’t of passed but that was the hand we were dealt. So although Finn and Rey were the absolute heart of TFA he had no place being there. Just my opinion.

 

Finn was kidnapped as a child and indoctrinated to indiscriminately kill innocents on behalf of a fascist regime. He knew exactly what was at stake. Yes, initially it made him afraid, and he saw the cost of doing nothing when his friend was taken. While that was the catalyst for him taking action and helping the Resistance, it didn't mean he would still cut and run after taking down Starkiller. After seeing that the First Order could be beaten, and realizing his new family, Poe and Rey were still in the fight, there's all the reason for Finn to be motivated to stay. Rian chose to start him off as a coward again, arresting his development.

And as for understanding the Force, Finn actually understood it just fine when Han chided him on Starkiller. The Force led Finn to the means to take down the shield, just as it led him to Rey.

 

The force didn’t lead him to anything on SKB. He just knew Phasma could take down the shield and Han technically “found” Rey.

Now I’d have loved it in TLJ and TROS if they had explored more about child soldiers, brainwashing and FO rebellions. We didn’t which is a shamed

 

You don't bring a butter knife to a gunfight.

 

Exactly.

Luke - “A thousand generations of Jedi now live in you Rey”

Finn - “oh awesome good for you Rey. Can I...can I have some generations?”

Luke - “you can come too Finn”

Finn - “I don’t need many. Ten tops.”

Luke - “...”

 

The thing is, for an effective redemption arc, Finn (and Poe) are absolutely needed. Part of an effective redemption arc is an acknowledgement of the validity of the feelings of the people you have harmed, and an unpacking of those feelings. There has to be an honest attempt to atone for one's crimes. Finn, as a kidnapped brainwashed slave in the organization that Kylo was leading, and as a person who Kylo sliced open, deserves a moment with Kylo, as does Poe. Without an effort on Kylo's part to atone for his sins against others, not just Rey, it's not even a half-***** attempt at a redemption. It's just a plain "stop the horror" moment, but the movie treats it as an "all is forgiven" moment. The movie effectively states that Kylo's crimes against Finn don't matter. Finn is worth more than that.

 

A former stormtrooper with combat and lightsaber experience and the Force. Sounds like more than a butter knife to me.

 

He has no idea how to use the Force. He's not even a novice. Hasn't kicked a ball yet would find himself in the World Cup Final. Realistically dead in seconds.