ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

[accidental post]

 

His character feeling that way isn't developed in the movie.

Him trying to make up for it isn't either.

I think that's dumb. Heroes lives have no less value than leaders. And the deaths of those people allowed for the destruction of the dreadnaught, which meant that they couldn't be destroyed later.

He can't help find a solution. He has no skills that could help them here. Even when he does, that solution is treated as wrong and the movie suggests that the resistance would've been better off if he had left or just stood around and did nothing.

He has no more reason to do that now than he did at the beginning of this movie or the end of the last.

 

If I had to put words to Finn’s “lesson” it might be “balancing passion with temperance”. He’s a very passionate character, always throwing himself 100% into his efforts, diving headfirst into the fray. But self-sacrifice is the value-on-reserve of a soldier, and he has to discover that there’s more to him than just being a martyr. Rose sees that. TROS actually follows through with that idea, showing that he has value as an emerging Force sensitive. We could argue whether or not it was as poignant as it could have been (I personally think there was a ton of things in TROS that could have stood to be much better developed), but it’s there nonetheless.

 

I've always found it strange why people believe that this character was set up to be a jedi since there is absolutely no evidence that he was going to be a jedi. JJ abrams used him as comic relief and a bait and switch for the actual main character, Rey.

 

The fact that you can (still) watch the film at all is the real kicker for me. It is top-to-bottom an exercise in bad film making and storytelling. What they did Finn is just the pin in the grenade.

 

Primarily because of the way it played in the trailers and the film itself. I'm pretty sure, although someone will correct me, that none of the trailers for TFA had Rey with the lightsaber... or at the very least it showed Finn with the sabre more often.

 

the marketing for TFA was definitely deceptive

at the very least Finn was eventually revealed to be force sensitive, it’s a shame it took all three films to get there

 

I think it woulda been cool if in TROS Leia could sense Finn’s force-sensitivity, seeing as she too was the one that developed later in the trilogy.

I could imagine her awkwardly outing Finn in front of Rey. (“So, have you told her yet?). And Finn’s not sure if she’s referring to his Force-sensitivity, or his feelings for Rey.

Maybe Finn could have been this trilogy’s version of “there is another”, not only with regards to being a Jedi, but also someone who could become Rey’s “other half” after Ben’s death. Oh well. In the next trilogy perhaps?

 

I been saying this a while now. there really is no evidence that this was ever part of the plan. and any evidence people give is so subtle its barely noticeable as evidence.

I think thats the result of the Redherring of Finn with a saber. people just haven't let their original expectation go. even though it was there hoping it would be a surprise that Rey was gonna be the main hero. sure it was ill-conceived and didn't quite work. but you could tell that was the original idea.

 

LOL - the trolling of the Black character continues. Its quite evident why it occurs.

There was no plan for the ST. JJ clearly put the first steps in it and wanted Finn Force sensitive, RJ didn't continue it, and JJ made sure it fit back in TROS - for as much as they had control.

Arguing its not there is the same as arguing there is no evidence of Reylo in TLJ - JJ wanted Finn using the Force.

 

Yeah, TFA's marketing campaign absolutely wanted to put up Finn as the "first" black Jedi. They wanted to have the publicity of being diverse and woke, but apparently they also wanted the consumerized familiarity of the black character playing second fiddle. If they really wanted to be bold they needed to put Finn on equal footing to Rey, not running around doing busy work that any other side character could accomplish.

Disney rarely leads the way on anything, they are a very conservative company in terms of their creative vision imo, in that they don't take chances. We wouldn't have gotten a female lead in the ST if Hunger Games had not been a commercial hit, they wouldn't be making Cruela DeVille into a bad-girl feminist if Harley Quinn hadn't already been very popular, and probably the only way Finn would have gotten good treatment is if Harry Potter had been black.

 

Or maybe Finn WAS a Jedi character and on equal footing with Rey but was “downgraded” in the editing room by racist a-holes at Disney after the marketing plans had been finalized.

The disconnect between marketing and movie wasn’t strategic. Heavily advertising something you know you’re not delivering on is so rare because it’s a bad, counterproductive strategy. It more likely suggests late-game changes to the movie.

 

@JoJoPenelli I'm not as familiar with the development of TFA as others on the forum, but the sense I get is that the "Jedi Finn" marketing was put together after they had most of the film shot, and wanted to tease audiences. Diverse casting had already become a big thing towards the end of the Obama years, so it was almost a requirement for them to be commercially relevant.

 

There is absolutely nothing in The Force Awakens narrative that even remotely suggests that Finn's part didn't play out as planned, and would have been a Jedi but for being downgraded in the editing room by racist a-holes at Disney.

 

Mace Windu says hi. (I get that you mean in a lead role)

 

Exactly, people saying "JJ set up" or "JJ had a plan" but people don't realize words like these should never be applied to a man like JJ Abrams, he doesn't set things up. He's not the type of guy to have a masterplan. People just assume this is what JJ wanted but why would he when takes specific actions within the story to keep Finn away from all the jedi stuff and force lore. Why didn't he have finn go with rey at the end of TFA. that was the perfect moment to ingratiate finn into a jedi story arc if he wanted but he chose not to why? why did he not make finn fs during his fight with kylo, it would have hyped up the audience and let them know that instead of one jedi story we would have two for this trilogy. Finn fans are like set up this, set up that, but they don't realize this simple concept: WHO THE HELL SETS UP A QUESTION LIKE THAT!?!?!?!?!?!?

THINK ABOUT IT.

Why would jj abrams "set up" a character to be revealed as force sensitive, what purpose does that serve? Was he thinking he could pull of some " I am your father" level twist with this reveal LMFAO.

"Hey im gonna set up this character to be a jedi, but in the meantime i'll waste one full movie, 1/3rd of a trilogy, in order to make the simple progression of him being revealed as FS. In what world does that make sense!?!?!
If your gonna do a jedi storyline, time is of the essence you can't spend one full movie setting up something as basic as character being revealed to be FS, you have to establish that from the jump. The fact that jj didn't do this shows me that he never had a intention to make finn be a jedi, but rather a comic relief sidekick, who's utter incompetence is utilized to show how great and competent rey is, once he served that role in TFA, NO ONE had a plan for his character.

 

It would have been a rather badly-edited movie had it retained aspects of prior versions the studio wanted removed.

That’s...literally how movie-making works. Same with published written works. Etc etc. The finished product usually isn’t the best evidence for xyz having been changed.

(Although if anyone would like to play “Let’s guess what the original R1 and Solo were before they were mostly reshot based on the final products!” have at it....)

@Glitterstimm Maybe. Certainly put together prior to the movie being completed, though. A lot can happen between principle photography wrapping and the movie being finished.

 

I hated how the rough cut of TFA had Finn as the scavenger and Rey as the former stormtrooper but the editors didn’t like it so they switched them at the last minute. Dang editors.

 

Sounds like a cute AU; let us know if you decide to post it on AO3

ETA: or fanfiction.net? Whatever your jam.

 

I don't think Finn was ever planned to be a Jedi. mostly becuase they wanted another Luke Skywalker. and thats who Rey was. the Gender swapped Luke Skywalker. they were taking so much from the OT. and alot of the defying expectations was assuming they needed a load of "i am your father" moments to shock the audience in the same iconic way as ESB.

Finn wasn't the Luke Skywalker. Rey was the Luke Skywalker. and she was always gonna be the Luke Skywalker.

 

Mace Windu.

 

Just a reminder that Anakin and Obi-wan both had starring roles in the PT and both were Jedi.

Yes, Rey was the primary protag. But the primary protag being a Jedi certainly did not prevent the secondary protag from being one. As much as TFA draws from the OT, the character roles and relationships are, structurally, very different.

 

The ST wasn't trying to be like the PT.

Different, but not too different. different enough that you can say its new, but not different enough that they hoped fans wouldn't be attracted to a similar dynamic.

 

You’re talking like the ST we ended up with was in accordance with a plan. It wasn’t.

Different, but not too different. different enough that you can say its new, but not different enough that they hoped fans wouldn't be attracted to a similar dynamic.[/QUOTE]

No - very different. Rey was a Luke analog, though her story - whatever it was - was very different. Kylo was only *very* superficially a Vader analogue. Finn? *shrug.* Poe? *shrug. Han/Luke/Leia? *shrug.*