ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

With respect, you often display a very selective memory about what is posted, which is odd when you consider that posts remain up for posterity and back reference. In post #5521 was me who asked, not accused, whether this was or was not an appreciation thread (i.e. a thread that typically only allows positive posts) after I saw a person getting banned for what appeared to be harmless criticism, later clarified that using the same font colour as a moderator was his crime.

 

No, I’m saying that this isn’t the first time you have tried it on with your nonsense.

 

TLJ's highlight dramatic moments are far superior to those of TLJ, particularly where Finn is concerned. I like seeing Finn actually win things and be the focus of his own storyline, as opposed to just being an elaborate piece of bait to illustrate to the audience that Rey is really the chosen one.

At least TLJ had Finn actually beat people *shrug*. I wasn't particularly impressed by watching him flail around trying to hit a wounded and weakened Kylo Ren. Heck, he's so outclassed he misses someone whose gutshot entirely in one swing. The moment he lands a superficial hit Kylo instantly ends him with contemptuous ease. He was actually being toyed with the entire time. I remember watching that fight with unease, because at that point I knew where it was going, and I was simply resigned and worried as to which body part he would lose.

And which of those achievements are entirely Finns? Like I can't think of a single one. Like I'm supposed to be impressed that he got Poe off the Finalizer. What, was Kylo Ren watching him the entire time? All he did was literally con one Stormtrooper and walk into a hangar. Wow. Even that is played for laughs. You don't remember when he solemnly intones that "it's the right thing to do" and then Poe correctly recognises that he's bull****ting because Finn can't fly starfighters?

Being an elaborate bait and switch in service of the real protagonist and never getting to do anything remotely cool isn't respect in my book. The notion that the movie is afraid of how charismatic and likeable he is is baffling to me. There's no remotely noteworthy difference between his treatment in TFA and TLJ in that respect. Similarly, this idea that the movie is somehow afraid to 'pair him with Rey' like this was somehow the natural place for the narrative to go post TFA is ... how would this work?

Maybe TFA shouldn't have had Finn in a coma and sent them both to Luke Skywalker. But it was never going to do that because that wasn't the story, ever.

 

Anyone seen this amazing video by Okiro?

 

Yeah. It's a mixed bag, not particularly persuasive. Some of its fair, some of it isn't. He's got some weird takes and blind spots, but I guess all fans do. He's big on making very ... generous takes that sometimes delve into outright propaganda.

He's very big on 'Force sensitive Finn was in TFA' JJ Abrams apologia which I just have zero time for.

For example, I remember him recently saying that Alan Dean Foster attempting to put hints of a Finn/Rey romance into the novelization of TFA was vindication that such a romance was 'always intended' - when Alan Dean Foster's comments demonstrate the exact opposite was true (just like John Boyega himself has said and just like Daisy Ridley has said for quite some time). It's something he inserted because he thought that's what TFA's script was going for, and when Lucasfilm saw it they told him to take it out. That's many things but its not 'always intended'. It's "what? no."

 

I never saw any sexual chemistry between Finn and Rey, long before Kylo took off his helmet, they seemed to be more like a brother and sister. Perhaps it was due to the off screen friendship between Ridley and Boyega.
I don't think Finn 'suffered' under Rian Johnson in TLJ, in fact I think he gave him a better character arc than TFA - Finn had his own story there instead of being Rey's sidekick. The character was horrendously used in TROS.
Regarding racism....Finn's 'predecessor' Sam, was originally meant to be white, so I don't think any mishandling of the character was due to race. If anyone was a victim of racism in the ST it was Kelly - a lot of Asian viewers were thrilled to see an Asian actress with a major role in TLJ. I can only imagine their anger and disappointment with TROS.

 

Yeah, Daisy said that herself in TFA promo.

 

I used to be active on another forum, but I quit because I didn't get on with one of the moderators.

 

This isn't about getting on or not getting on with moderators, I don't know them. I would just respectfully expect that posts aren't quite so repeatedly misrepresented, whether deliberately or not.

 

No male character written as viewing a female character like a sister asks her if she “has a cute boyfriend.” None.

Had Finn been cast as white there’d have been no doubt as to whether he and Rey were supposed to be romantic, (whether or not one liked them as a couple). None.

And the fact that a character was once - in the conceptual stages - white has no bearing on whether treatment of the character in his realized form was racist. None.

 

Neither does a male character who has just finished defecting from the military authoritarian regime who kidnapped him as a child. It's a terrible line that doesn't make much sense for the character. TFA's writing not matching up with what it's doing isn't surprising. But that's a seperate issue as to whether one sees chemistry.

Sure there would have been. There's very little in TFA's text that would inexorably lead to a romantic connection, and the performance is ambiguous enough so that anyone can see whatever they want depending on what they focus on.

Rachel Weisz and Brendan Fraser in the Mummy, it ain't.

Finn's got more chemistry with Poe in TFA than he does with Rey, IMO.

 

I'm not sure you can blame the audience for having to interpret mixed messages and coming up with scenario A as opposed to scenario B... and whilst clearly (IMHO), the relationship between Rey and Finn is far from being clear, there's enough going on for a possible 'romance' to be implied (although I did't necessarily see that myself).

Yes - I agree with that... and I did wonder if Johnson was going to run with that in TLJ. I think Boyega brings the most chemistry to the individual relationship dynamics... be it the Finn/Rey, Finn/Poe or Finn/Han Solo. And from an acting/chemistry point of view, I think Finn would have been the best central lead for the trilogy.

 

Things change. Luke certainly looked proud of himself after making out with his sister in Empire

 

“Things change.”

Yes. That’s the point. Things changed.

And those in a position to know what actually happened pointed to racism as the culprit.

Although that’s different from denying that a romance was set up between Finn and Rey in TFA. One can not be a fan of a romantic pairing without wholesale denying its existence. Unfortunately, unconscious bias is a powerful thing, including as applied to taboos against interracial romance, both irl and in movies.

Again - if Finn were white everyone would have assumed that he and Rey would be the romantic pairing of the trilogy.

 

I wouldn't, with what was presented. Also reinforcing this is the fact that Rey was set up as the "Luke Skywalker" of The Force Awakens, a facsimile of A New Hope.

As such, much like her Originally Trilogy counterpart, as the "Jedi" character I didn't' expect her to be romantically involved with anybody. I would have expected those duties to fall to the other two characters making up the new trio, Finn and Poe.

 

Not me.
I judge by the chemistry between the leads, not skin colour.

 

I don't agree with this all. It isn't Rian Johnson's fault he used the cast which was presented to him. He didn't cast the characters. Nor is it Rian's fault he inherited a story which ended up such a literal cliffhanger, that the only real story place to jump off from was "Later that day...."

He had to resolve Rey meeting Luke, as that meeting had been left unspoken in The Force Awakens. He also inherited a story then where Finn was on the other side of the Galaxy in a coma.

Therefore, Rey and Finn being split up was not only a natural progression of where The Force Awakens left them, but in terms of the Sequel Trilogy's rather shameless mirroring of the Original Trilogy, followed The Empire Strikes Back in doing something similar.

Rian's story was pretty specific, and if it were a TV series, it would be the "Luke-centric" episode, mid-season. Sure enough, that is possibly a problem for a three movie story arc rather than say, a ten episode TV series which has time to flesh out the story and do one of those "unconnected-to-the-main-plot-tangent-episodes" which the Last Jedi feels like.

But this stuff about Finn being the black character being moved aside because of dark forces conspiring to keep the character away from Rey, when you see the very specific story Rian was trying to tell, just feels like nonsense to me.

You're a considered and intelligent sounding guy, I'm surprised that you entertain this notion to be honest.

 

Yeah, I don't really see the actors, or the characters, as having 'chemistry', when one is strapped to a table while the other tortures them. I don't really think Luke and Vader, or the actors who played them, had chemistry either. And they were actually related. They're not supposed to. They're on opposite sides of the conflict. They supposed to have anti-chemistry, if anything. They're supposed to be opposites in most ways. That's why there's a conflict. They're not supposed to bond in the same way MH interacts with HF, and CF.

DR's chemistry with JB actually exists, not only between the actors, but also between the characters.

 

Good guys and bad guys can have chemistry fine.

 

Not in this case.

 

Not directed at you specifically, but “unconscious bias” is, by definition, unconscious, and one’s views can be affected by it even if one thinks one “doesn’t see race,” so to speak.

Also, whether or not two characters are set up to be a couple has nothing to do with chemistry. I’m sure we’ve all seen plenty of movies where the romantic leads had no chemistry but were still very clearly written to be romantically interested in each other.

Whether or not one likes Finn/Rey as a couple has nothing to do with one recognizing that they were intended to be a couple. The unconscious bias comes more into play re whether one even sees it onscreen.

 

They may have had chemistry, as a "buddy pair", bouncing off one another maybe. But it never crosses over that threshold into becoming a romantic, sexual attraction type affair between them. It was never written that way for them either. Here is Boyega talking to Variety in 2016 from Cannes.

 

Out of curiosity..What do you think JB would say of Rey and Kylo's chemistry in 7? Was that supposed to be sexual?