ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

…or, when they cast a Black guy, they need to be more aware and cognizant about not writing him into bad stereotypes. That should be a responsibility of any studio in the 21st century. If they then think the solution is to not cast a Black guy at all—that is lazy at best, and at worst another form of racism, because they would then be only casting white actors in order to avoid having to pay attention.

That is not to say Rey had to be in a romance with Finn in order for the studio to not be viewed as racist. But to then have Rey give such special deference to Kylo, for no in-universe reason whatsoever, while Finn is made the butt of jokes and follows Rey around screaming her name, is very tone deaf at best.

 

You’re completely skipping over the fact that the point is that TFA wasn’t changed, and remains the best evidence for Finn originally being more important to Rey than as “just” a friend, while the rest of the ST being written in a blind panic to get him away from Rey shows that was where the reaction was.

The argument is not and never has been that casting Boyega as Finn changed TFA’s script away from either romance or the same importance as romance; if anything, the fact that Abrams reshot scenes to bring more emphasis and focus on Rey and Finn’s relationships and the actors’ chemistry implies that Abrams desired even more focus on their relationship after seeing Biyega and Ridley bring their characters to life and make them complement each other.

The argument is that the biggest reason that Finn went from being the clear male lead, no ifs, ands, or buts, along with being Rey’s most important co-star and having the most important relationship with her, and with Kylo not having anything comparable in significance on the role at all because he was strictly the antagonist… to someone being lectured on how he cared for Rey too much, while being completely ignored by Rey in her enamorment with Kylo, to being paired with a character who seems deliberately to have been written as boring and confining, to losing any scene of confiding in Rey, and to be clearly and specifically replaced by Kylo as the male lead… is likely a mix of racism and insecurity about Kylo.

To kind of paraphrase yourself, “the idea that it probably was the thought Abrams and Kasdan’s mind - and that such a thought scared Johnson and LFL - doesn’t seem to be given any thought.”

Boyega was cast for TFA as the male lead, not Adam Driver. His character was designed to be the closest, most important companion the female lead had. Numerous bits of dialogue, blocking, and character interactions made it clear that his character was occupying the place of a romantic interest in an adventure story, whether the intention was for romance or a romance substitute.

…Then the next films and pretty much all subsequent material don't just insert a different romantic interest for Rey (which conceptually isn’t a problem, but in execution was also horrific), but he’s also repeatedly demoted, demeaned, and his audience gaslit about his role, characterization, and importance.

This is the difference; Tom Holland gets that role, and it’s almost certain that either Finn remains the romantic interest/substitute for romantic interest, and that Kylo doesn’t become the romantic interest instead, or we have yet another “white girl must choose between two white bits” love triangle… and no matter what, Finn doesn’t get demoted out of panic.

The fact they demanded everything about the character be changed and downgraded is what makes it suspicious in the first place.

 

The thing is, we know that Poe didn’t actually get promoted above Finn - Finn was regarded as a threat to Kylo by LFL and Johnson, and thus TLJ shoved him backwards, whether fans of TLJ want to admit that or not. None of his story movement in TLJ is productive, and most of it is harmful and denigrating.

Poe comes off as more elevated because of how hard Johnson was pushing Finn down, and Boyega has explicitly defended Abrams for TROS while heavily implying that LFL likely interfered against his character - which again follows the pattern of paranoia and insecurity over Kylo…

…And Adam Driver is the one LFL explicitly marketed and proposed as the male lead for TROS even when Boyega *still* does more work then him, and *still* has more development and depth in his character on screen compared to Kylo.

Because in no way was Kylo Finn’s equal as an asset to the Trilogy, and trying to supplant Finn as Male Lead actually made Kylo a liability to everything .

That he had the Force - but probably more importantly, he was going to tell her while they were alone, which is likely what most terrified LFL.

Don’t get me wrong; they were probably leery of letting the audience know a more charismatic actor like John Boyega playing a far more likable character was getting the Force going forward as well. It’s part of the reason Finn’s still the character with the most potential after the ST… which probably plays into one of many reasons LFL doesn’t want to do anything post-ST for now. They spent far more time trying to demote Finn than they did even trying to keep Rey as the main character; they’ve got too much pride wrapped up in Kylo to think of admitting that was the wrong move.

But it’s also more likely LFL knew that Abrams was dead-on that Boyega and Ridley had electric chemistry when he cast them, and that the types of characters he and Driver were playing created a massive imbalance against their desire for Driver to supplant Boyega.

Finn’s a more emotive role with a more sympathetic background and more complementary chemistry naked into his interactions with Rey; thus, Boyega, with his more charismatic acting style and rapport with Ridley, easily outshines the introverted, self-centered character of Kylo, which may play to Driver’s strengths for being quietly intense, but offers nothing for Ridley to bounce off of and is founded on toxic sexism.

There’s no way LFL wanted any scenes reminding everyone that Ridley and Boyega were a well-oiled machine clearly superior to just having Ridley act hard at Driver instead.

 

Have to disagree; Isaac made a compelling enough performance to get the ST it’s own, more active and more heavily featured version of Wedge Antilles, engaging enough to be the highest profile ST character to have his own comic book for quite some time, based off a logical reading of his character in TFA.

It’s not the fault of anyone in TFA that Rian Johnson went “Ugh, another extroverted heroic dude. I hate extroverted heroic dudes; where are the introverts? And he’s a pilot - therefore he must be a Maverick type. I must lecture the audience on why I find these character types unlikeable, and punish them for liking him, just like I’m punishing John Boyega for being so charismatic but not Adam Driver.”

On a related note, it *is* rather revealing that so many people wanted to go with Poe as the “good guy” alternative love interest for Rey instead of Kylo off of a one-word exchange from either TFA’s novelization (by a guy who explicitly thinks Rey and Finn were being set-up) and then that exchange being put in TLJ. Even Trevorrow went with that idea for Duel of the Fates.

…That definitely feels like a scenario where *someone* at LFL would accept anyone who wasn’t Finn as Rey’s possible love interest - the only ones seriously considered after TFA were two dudes both significantly older than her, lighter-skinned than Boyega, and with either almost no interactions with her or only vile and disgusting ones.

 

No, it’s an attempt to discredit and deflect from discussion about Finn being sidelined and how the romances being considered for Rey were both with much-older, light-skinned men.

 

Oh no.

If only there were ways to make two characters argue with each other, as Finn and Poe did in TFA, or Rey and Finn in TFA, since both times Abrams and Kasdan used the very basic fact that Finn was an ex-stormtrooper and (arguably more often) that people are people.

If only Rian Johnson had the skill set to do so. I mean, surely he’s not the type of guy to, say, forsake an obvious, narrative defining conflict for no good reason just because he wants, like, a scavenger girl to become the enabler and push-over of a predatory sociopath or anything, right?



Johnson!s comment wasn’t an explanation - it was an excuse. He just didn’t care about the characters, and what he did care about was how prominent John Boyega was.

The goal posts clearly weren’t shifted for Poe - they were shifted for Finn and Kylo.

Poe being alive really doesn’t interfere with any idea to make Finn a Big Deal with the Resistance; Poe’s a pilot, Finn’s a trooper, Poe’s a veteran officer, Finn’s a young “fresh fish,” Poe was born on the New Republic, Finn in the First Order, Poe’s a part of the command staff, Finn is Rey’s closest companion, etc., etc.

Where *is* there a conflict that might require moving goalposts?

Maybe in terms of who Rey cares about the most, who the main male POV of the story is, what dude matters most to the heroic side of the equation, etc… all the stuff that TLJ kicked Finn out of and hammered Kylo into.

Hell, we even know who the “goalpost” is - it’s Rey, who has her characterization hollowed out and an entire new Force power created so that Johnson can lazily put Kylo in Finn’s spot.

 

…and trying a Minority Report for topics is the worst and most obvious in attempts to deflect from a discussion of Finn being sidelined—even in his own thread—and how the romances being considered for Rey were both with much older light skinned men.

The Finn-Poe buddy dynamic is one of my favorite parts of TROS. “You were a stormtrooper?” “You were a smuggler?” “We can do this all day.”