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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Yeah I love Finn but he wasn’t why it made $2B.
     
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  2. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    First SW film since the prequels didn’t guarantee mass repeat viewings. The audience had to love the movie and the characters for that. I understand that seems outlandish because of where we are now, but that was actually a thing once.
     
  3. ForceGhostPrincessLeia

    ForceGhostPrincessLeia Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 22, 2018
    Finn was definitely part of it. Representation matters. And he was an awesome character in TFA.
     
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  4. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Agreed but it certainly helped and attributing it to Finn being “center” of it is a bit of a stretch.
     
  5. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Yeah.

    And again, as stated in one of my earlier posts. I’m not arguing Finn is magic for this argument. All I need to do is show that Finn was an asset that helped with the bank to a greater degree than shifting to Kylo/Ben wound up being.

    I’d agree that Finn never had his full potential realized, and I’d even agree with the idea that he is not the main contributor to the film’s success.

    He’s just clearly better than Benny-Bunny, because his writing in TFA didn’t suck like Kylo’s did in TLJ and TROS. If nothing else, Finn *was* at the center of TFA’s events and plot alongside Rey... and the ST and her story was never healthier.

    In fact her story got quite a bit weaker and less powerful when around Kylo.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  6. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 23, 2015
    Finn was center. It’s a total rewrite to pretend otherwise. TFA was sold on a trio - Rey, Finn and Kylo. Finn with the lightsaber was absolutely central to the marketing for that film. It was the big hook for the trailers. Rey and Finn together is the heart of that movie. When they replaced that bond with Reylo and gave Finn sidekick status, what a coincidence, lots of people stopped giving AS.
     
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  7. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 26, 2014
    So...like I said? Huh.
     
  8. ForceGhostPrincessLeia

    ForceGhostPrincessLeia Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 22, 2018
    Yeah, the bait and switch was messed up. JB has said he felt really bad that marketing led people to believe he was a Jedi. I can definitely see that contributing to a spike in interest as well as contributing to declining interest when that tease wasn't paid off.
     
  9. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 23, 2015
    I dunno, you argued with the word “center” so I don’t know what you were getting at. Finn was 1/3 of what the trilogy was sold on. Some audience members invested in his growth. Then those audience members were mocked and told to get over their headcanon and accept him in his place. And a portion of them gave the trilogy the middle finger. It was painfully foreseeable.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  10. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    As I’ve said at the time I would’ve loved for Finn to have been confirmed force sensitive and they’d rolled with it.

    Since I followed the leaks though I knew going in that it was actually going to be Rey‘s story so it didn’t bother me too much.

    I think something of note is that while there were heaps of people disappointed that Finn wasn’t going to be the Jedi going forward at that stage there were likely just as many fans who were thrilled that a woman was going to carry the torch going forward.
     
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  11. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 23, 2015
    “Rey’s story” only meant Finn couldn’t have his own story too if you assumed they were copying the OT and Luke’s story. I had totally undeserved faith in them that wouldn’t be so creatively bankrupt.

    This never should have been a competition between the woman and the black guy :rolleyes:

    People don’t have to be cool with Finn’s character being treated like crap because it was cool that a woman was the Jedi protagonist.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  12. CrazyOldJedi

    CrazyOldJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2000
    Kennedy could not have been clearer - This story is about a female Jedi.
     
  13. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Agreed my point was that TFA probably also benefited from some fans buying into Rey becoming a Jedi that wouldn’t have otherwise. Nothing about trading one for the other.

    For me Finn had a story up until TROS. In TLJ despite being separated they felt equal but just on their own journey before being reunited in the end. As I’ve said I was happy they were doing something non-Jedi for Finn.

    TROS basically ran that into the ground trying to smother it in the mud as it tumbled along. From memory they don’t really have a single positive interaction in TROS, please correct me if I’m wrong.
     
  14. Def Trooper

    Def Trooper Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Exactly this, and what's so damn frustrating is that it didn't have to be. Even if he's not force sensitive, have a damn story to tell with him.

    Use the resources that his backstory affords; So many people have expressed disappointment at the lack of the meaningful use of his Stormtrooper background, and it really shows LFL's priorities when they couldn't even keep in vital elements of his personal arc in TROS.

    They cut pretty much everything (and it looks even worse when you add in the things that seemingly vanished from the early JediPaxis leaks) and it seems like they left in the bare minimum to give context for Jannah, since they'd already advertised Naomi Ackie as a major player in the film and couldn't cut her out like they did Rose.
     
  15. wilyen

    wilyen Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    with that being said y'all think there's any truth to this?



    "During TFA, Disney was hesitant to hire John Boyega because a woman was front and center so they deemed that risky enough so bringing in a male lead who's black made them nervous."
     
  16. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Jannah is Rose lite in the film. If only there was a mechanic floating about to fix the falcon or Hotwire star destroyer canons...

    People can dislike TLJ as much as they like but that place is an absolute fever dream cesspool. Yuck.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  17. MasterDekan

    MasterDekan Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2005
    People are in CYA mode right now, so there are tons of excuses and a lot of finger pointing going on. That whole story sounds like someone trying to save JJs honor.

    Here's the problem: tRoS is consistent with how JJ left Star Trek and how Chris Terrio handled Batman v. Superman and Justice League narratively. This is why I was nervous about tRoS when they announced Terrio's involvement. On top of that, if JJ didn't believe in the scenes that are causing the most fuss, I have to believe he would have resisted even filming them in the first place.

    This was JJ and Terrio's film. There signatures are all over it. If JJ really has an issue with the final product, he can make the calls for a Special Edition. It wouldn't be the first time it's been done in SW, and given the leverage Disney gave Marvel with Endgame I would expect they would be open to similar moves with the final chapter in the Skywalker Saga. That said, I've heard that JJ personally doesn't like changes after final cuts, so I'm not holding my breath.

    As for the part specifically about JB's hiring, I can believe that there was a suit or two who had an issue with it. I know of at least one Disney executive who Kevin Feige had to navigate around to get Black Panther and Captain Marvel made. The problem is that whatever the hesitation was, JJ was allowed to do what he wanted with Finn in TFA. The narrative problem with Finn as I see it began with Rian Johnson's vision for TLJ. Finn originally was supposed to recover from his wounds at the end of TFA. RJ asked JJ to keep Finn in a coma. It seems pretty clear to me from TLJ that RJ wanted that to make it easier to separate Finn from Rey, which allowed for the idea of Ben Solo to take Finn's place as the dual protagonist with Rey. Doing that in the middle of the trilogy made it difficult for the creative team on ep. IX to reverse course narratively. It may have been part of the reason for Trevarrow's departure. JJ took steps to get Finn back into the forefront, but it’s clear he couldn't get him all the way there because of Kylo Ren/Ben Solo's redemption.

    Whatever reservations there might have been with JB's initial casting, I don't believe that is what caused him to be wasted in this trilogy. TLJ did that.
     
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  18. Darth Djent

    Darth Djent Jedi Knight

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    Oct 6, 2015
    Not sure if its all true but judging by the gate keeping that seems to continually debilitate Finns character (and our discussion of him) I know that last part is spot on.
     
  19. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 23, 2015
    This sounds like your point is still about trading. Inherent in my point is that yes, Rey’s story in TFA also appealed to people. I would argue of the three characters TFA was sold on, Rey’s story was the one that was most popular by a long shot (no I do not think internet Kylo stans represent the GA). That doesn’t mean that shoving Finn in the closet was a smart idea. It has nothing to do with Rey’s story. They never had to choose between these two. If they were just doing Rey’s story, they shouldn’t have sold audiences on the lie that they were also getting a Finn story.
     
  20. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    And then an addendum to that showed up in TLJ and TROS: “+ the evil white guy who we swear has a good guy side underneath it all, and in fact we’d like you to think of them as ‘two halves of a whole protagonist.’”

    Finn and Rey was a story that favored Rey but still had some good storytelling and potential for Finn, and was complimented by Kylo as a foil for them.

    Rey and Kylo was a story that favored Kylo, handicapped Rey’s story, and wasted Finn.
     
  21. MasterDekan

    MasterDekan Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2005
    One positive that comes out of this for Finn is that while his development was stunted the films haven't ruined the character. He has a wide open story available for anyone who wants to explore it (hopefully on film).

    I honestly hope someone does.
     
  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Same.

    John Boyega—Disney should Disney Plus you. I’d watch the hell out of it.
     
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  23. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Yeah, I definitely hope we get to see more of Finn, preferably live action if JB is up for it.

    Like I posted in the last thread, I would prefer to see him off on his own adventure, or journey, to learn the ways of the force, make his own lightsaber. Maybe as part of some mission to look for other force sensitive folks who are interested in forming a New Jedi order, or something.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  24. Anakin_and_Padme

    Anakin_and_Padme Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2010
    I see what you're saying, but I don't think Kylo's story was the reason why the others didn't work out. I would say that in some ways, Poe's character pushed Finn into the background since his character was meant to die in TFA. Kylo was always going to be at the forefront when it was revealed that he was the son of Han and Leia. He may have the surname Solo, but by blood he's a Skywalker. When the trailers came out for TFA, I thought Finn was going to be the lead. However, it didn't go that way.
    I think what they should've done was not include Kylo or the Skywalker family and have the new story based on Finn being force sensitive and Rey finding herself. Then after all of the characters developed, Kylo and the remaining Skywalkers should've been reintroduced.
    The directors and producers tried to juggle too many different storylines at once and it came off as incoherent. This is just my take on it.
     
  25. NHB0M

    NHB0M Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2016
    Tom Hiddleston liked John's tweet :p:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020