ST Finn & Rey in Episode IX

I think people are maybe being too hard on Rose. I don't think she will turn into Finn's psycho stalker or GF who manipulates him into being trapped with her or something. Also Rose began as a more irritable character, which is still in the novelization, but in the commentary RJ said that the character changed in response to KMT's energy which was much lighter. (Still I wonder if they didn't quite know who this character is?)

Also, some people have pointed out that Finn's run wouldn't have worked, though I don't know where that is coming from, as I don't know if it would have worked or not.

I don't think Rose is some demon character though. If one wants to demonize a character for endangering the Resistance, why not pick on Poe?

 

If Rose has an obsession w/Finn, then I think we can say Finn has an obsession with Rey. Based on the number of times Finn brings Rey up, & how Rose thinks of Finn as the handsome Resistance hero and is annoyed by him bringing up Rey (in the book I got it more heavily). Rose yes, is jealous of his connection w/Rey, but imo (also more from book than TLJ) it's also that she doesn't want him to throw all his eggs into 1 basket w/Rey when there's so much more out there (not just other potential partners, but just general life experiences too).

Also, the exchange between Rose & Finn on pages 141-142 of Fry's novelization really speaks to the fact that both together and apart there's character growth going on. Rose softens towards Finn's "pining" for Rey when he explains that Rey's the first person he cared about so much to fight for, making it clear that Rey was the first important person in his life. (Which lol now that I think about it technically isn't true cause Poe met him first but whatever.)

Rey and Finn both grew up in extreme situations. I think that because they spent much of TFA together, being apart in TLJ they a.) both grew, Rey in her force knowledge and powers and Finn in understanding himself not just working w/the Resistance to save Rey, but truly committing to Resistance cause he believes in the cause, & b.) their relationship grew as a result. I love that Finn insists Rey won't be different when they meet again when Rose suggests Rey'll be different: pg. 141: "Rey would always be Rey. He was sure of it, and little annoyed by Rose's failure to see that." Rose, page 142: "She's [Rey's] on her own path. You need to find yours."

And that in fact at the end, both Finn & Rey ARE different. Finn's had a crazy experience of his own w/the Canto bight stuff w/Rose & then DJ and fighting Phasma, and Rey's had a crazy experience of force stuff w/Ben & Luke & Snoke's dead & PG fight. And they needed time apart to grow in their new roles. Page 304: "For a moment Finn was afraid that Rose had been right - ...And she was different. But the old Rey wasn't gone."

I agree with you to a point. The kiss did come across and awkward & totally unexpected, which would make sense if Finn's been so sheltered in the FO he'd never kissed someone before, or he was just worried about if Rose was alive that a kiss was the furthest thing from his mind. And though I ship Finn/Rose, the Rey/Finn relationship is an important part of both Rey & Finn regardless of whether they're romantically involved; they'll forever be each other's first real friend & they'll always be a part of each other's lives. I think having them off on a mission somewhere together at the start of 9 would be amazing, and make sense coming off of TLJ where there wasn't much interaction between them. (If they do go the Finn/Rey route though, your idea for how that would start in 9 I do like!)

@oncafar, YES. About Poe. I didn't like him in TFA, then was like, okay, he's fine, sure in TLJ, but ugh reading his parts in the novel made me dislike him all over again. I whooped out loud when Leia finally stunned him. I kind of want him to fail miserably at being a leader (if that's what he is) in 9 just because.

(also, apologies for probably retreading already covered ground with the quotes; but they're so great anyway I couldn't help it )

 

Perhaps some are demonizing Rose because she became his film/story partner for TLJ and not Rey and this is nothing but sour grapes attacks.

But I love the two of the together. This series thus far has been about the No One rising up and making great things happy.

Rey is a No One who is now the hero of the Force story.

Poe (somewhat of a legacy child by way of the Comics) not included, the War story is now being told by people who aren't powerful by birthright like Leia was. it is an Everyman/woman organic movement. Finn was literally a worker bee in the FO hive who broke free and Rose was a nerdy little cog in the Resistance wheel. She didn't have the higher profile position like her sister Paige. She was one of the behind the scenes positions in the Resistance that made sure the day to day operations kept going. She didn't see herself as anything important, and I suspect that is why she was hero-worshipping (NOT stalking) Finn at the beginning of the film. He was suddenly a big deal among the resistance's troops. He broke free of the FO, he fought Kylo Ren and lived to tell about it.

Yet nobody Rose was able to bring out the hero in Finn. She (albeit forcibly) convinced him not to flee and go AWOL. She helped explain the war to him on a very personal level, and she empowered him to be no longer afraid of fully committing to the cause.

*shrugs* I like Rose and Finn together.

 

There's good discussion happening here, but I just want to remind everyone that this thread is for the discussion of Rey and Finn, not Finn and Rose. Cheers, all.

 

I think Rey-Finn-Rose might be the "love triangle" if there is going to be one.

 

In terms of Rey and Finn in IX then one thing that can be used to portray their relationship and reestablish it's importance (as well as actually have a real effect on Rey) is to start the movie in a ROTS mission style with the two of them but unlike where Anakin saves Obi-Wan Finn gets killed by Ren which allows him to finally get a victory over her and set up some kinds of stakes for later on.

Conversely it could be a close call in the first 20 minutes which alleviates audience tension then have it occur in the second act of IX.

As it is with what I expected in TLJ Finn simply can't really play any strong part in her story because he isn't part of the Force anymore than Leia and Han could really be a part of Luke's story in the OT. I don't see IX being able to change course.

 

Well it would certainly be new and subversive for someone like Finn to be able to hold his own in said plot wouldn't it? Lol. But really though, it would be cool for John to get his wish and be apart of another, more drawn out and epic duel (and win).

 

1. If the Force is not going to be treated as a Super power (RJ's words) then Finn absolutely has a place in it, as does Poe, and Rose. If Chirrut is an example of what happens when a normal person believes in the force...then you can easily expand that and have said expansion begin with Episode 9.
2. We don't need to Kill Finn to establish how important he is to Rey or make Kylo a threat...especially since that last part feels too much like "Significant other in a refrigerator"
3. Personally, I'd have Rey on a mission that will cause her to run into Kylo Ren and a number of his allies. Since it would be foolhardy to try this alone (she did that in TLJ and it went disastrously wrong), she asks for help and Finn steps up since he feels her mission is important to the overall war. Now we have our Dynamic Duo back, and leading a Strike team against Kylo Ren and his forces.

 

Rey's Force powers are effectively superpowers in the ST though. It's a power she has that no one we've ever seen have before.

If it's about making Ren an actual threat and giving Finn something really positive to contribute to the story and other characters then this is certainly a way to do it.

Sure there are others way but it's not going to be a 4 hour movie. I doubt with JJ it's going to be much more than TFA. There is a ton to cover and not much time to do it.

Fine. Then make it have consequences when it goes terribly wrong. Ren killing Solo wasn't enough to convince Rey that he was not worth saving. For all we know that may have been JJ's point but that is now lost after TLJ so if he wants to pick up back on where he left TFA then this would be a way to essentially go back to that point.

 

DYING is Finn's positive contribution to the story? You realize if you said that about Rey you'd have just made a rather staggering amount of enemies both in and outside the fandom.

This is not complicated. JJ Abrams set thing up so that Finn and Kylo parallel one another in TFA. That's why Kylo hates Finn so much that he wanted to hurt him by films end...Finn had done what Kylo had done...but by going to the light. Play that up in the final film, have Kylo Ren see Finn fighting against the First Order in person. Have Kylo start to blame Finn for everything that's gone wrong, because it all began to fall apart with Finn's defection. Now FInn's involved in the "Force Story", which expands what the force means going forward. We've dropped Phasma into a burning Inferno, let's go ahead and complete Finn's arc by having him be apart of the Kylo Ren solution, since the Fallen Jedi put him in a Coma after a personal fight...it seems only right that Finn be involved in taking down Ren.

 

I'm talking about the story. Rey dying can also be good for the story but not until about the end of the movie. It depends what the actual threat is going to be. What are the stakes? How is this going to tie the trilogies together?

It's on the ST to work with the PT and OT and that hasn't happened so far.

 

Then let's find a Story that doesn't require us to kill Finn just to raise the stakes. Here's one, Kylo Ren and his KOR have been traveling the galaxy burning everything to do with the Sith and the Jedi. At the same time the First Order is losing it's grip as revolution spreads throughout the galaxy. Without Star Killer base, the FO dosen't have the manpower to hold the worlds they've conquered, and that plus Kylo Ren's inexpierence is causing everything to unravel fast as the Rebellion grows at a geometric rate, bolstered by Republic forces that went into hiding during the FO's first push.

Even though the tide is turning, a wounded animal (like the FO and Kylo Ren) is extremly dangerous. General Hux is planning to burn entire worlds with conventional technology if they dare to revolt, while Kylo is purging the FO of anyone he deems disloyal...leaving only the most fanatical.

This is the situation our heroes are confronting...the FO is unraveling but unless they act fast, Kylo Ren and his forces might just drag hundreds of worlds down with them.

In this storyline the Rebellion is gearing up for a major offensive, planning to liberate multiple worlds in their first major open operations against the First Order. Finn and his squad (along with Rey) have been dropped behind enemy lines to prepare the way...but while working with the local resistance they stumble across Hux's plan and the KOR's attempt to force their way into a Jedi/Sith library....one that contains knowledge that can not be allowed to fall into Kylo Ren's hands as it could change the course of the war.

Finn is torn between his stated mission and keeping this information OUT of Kylo's hand. He's also worried that his own desire for vengeance against Kylo for what was done to him is clouding his judgement which strains his relationship with Rey.

Rey, needs help, since she Can't fight Kylo and his KOR at the same time but with so few people her mission is looking hopeless.

Endgame, Finn and a few volunteers help Rey secure the Jedi/Sith archive while the Rebellion launches a major offensive. Rey and Finn and their allies are outnumbered and facing three Luke/Snoke trained force users (including Kylo Ren) but by working together, and trusting in themselves and the force they overcome long odds and achieve victory...just as the First Order is force to flee back into the Unknown regions.

 

I don't think Finn or Rey dying is good for the story.

I also think Force powers should count for something. This doesn't contradict it not being a super power.

"The Force is not a power you have." - Luke

 

Screw the duels.

Give Finn a good blaster firefight where he's the best gunslinger on the scene.

That's what we need now!

 

Why not both?

 

So retread the end of TFA only this time it drags out and Finn dies? No thanks. There were enough moments in TLJ that showed they still mean a lot to one another (One of the few credits I give to TLJ). They don't need to re-establish a connection that was never gone in the first place.

 

I don’t think you’re crazy at all. Rey could totally fall for her love sick friend. Words are carefully chosen in movies especially Star Wars movies I was just saying how the vibe I got from the TFA movie was that Finnrey chemistry was endgame but then the constant friend reference was off putting for me. It doesn’t mean they can’t be friend to lover I’m not saying take anything off the table. My gut just says it’s reylo now because of the sexual tensions they’ve built up in TLJ.

 

Pretty sure any "sexual tensions" (ugh, if I had a dollar for every time i've had to look at those words) were destroyed when 1. Kylo chose to rule the First Order, ordered the destruction of the Resistance, rejected yet another chance at redemption, and blamed Snoke's death on Rey. 2. After Rey threw away her compassion for him and severed their connection.

And I know people love to say "But it could change in Episode IX!" But in that case, the same goes for Finn and Rey's current friendship, which would seem much more likely and believable to me at this point. At least with Finn and Rey you never had to jump through hoops to make it work.

 

"You're standing with him?? He's just a Stormtrooper. He's nobody."

"And I am nobody too." And Rey launches into her final lightsaber battle with Kylo.

 

I think Finn and Rey is possible. And if there was a love triangle, I'd much rather it be Finn-Rey-Rose than Finn-Rey-Poe.

Although I don't really want a firm set up for Rey. If IX feels like it's ending in Rey's marriage, then ew.

 

If the end game is Finn-Rey, then poor poor Rose.
You know the standard deal. She can't be hanging around, rejected by Finn. It makes Finn look bad. The usual deal is a noble death.

 

Rose doesn't have to die to clear up the triangle. That would make Finn look bad if he's like, "Well, Rose is dead now. Rey, let's hook up."

 

Yup, I think Finn could die in episode IX because they faked us out with his almost death in TLJ. If he does it will be the heart stopping moment of the whole movie. The feelings he has for Rey whether it be out of love or friendship is a big deal in this trilogy and reminds me of Lancelot and Gwennie.

 

I suspect what JJ said about the Force not being a superpower is in line with this paradigm shift we are subtly seeing. It was highlighted in Fry's novel when Rey realized she was the Force's instrument while Kylo was trying to bend the Force to its will.

That means the Force adept are no different than they have ever been. They have supernatural abilities. It's how they tap into it and utilize the Force that is different. Cirrut Imwe was a Guardian of the Whills. I'm still trying to figure out his ability to serve as the Force's instrument. As a monk of that order, he obviously has a massive understanding of the Force.

So there appears that there are three types of sentients: Force Adept, "Muggles" to borrow a Harry Potter term and something in between that Chirrut was.

I don't see the need to make everyone a Force adept or "something in between" for the sake of parity. Because honestly, there needs to be a diversity of abilities to match each other. Rey has Force abilities, therefore it's only fair that Finn has them too really isn't great storytelling. There have always been two tiers of the greater story: the Force and the War. We need heroes in both that have unique qualities and abilities.

Finn is a great character. He doesn't need to suddenly have Force abilities to define him. He is the heart of the heroes. That is his "superpower." His role is similar to Han's in the OT. People love and care for the heart. In return, their bravery helps raise up those around him to achieve the highest in themselves.