ST Finn & Rey in Episode IX

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Oh yes it played out in fan letterzines and ficzines. There was the whole Church of Ford/Cathedral of Luke debate that went on for decades. And it got ugly.

There was Luke zine (Another Sky) that banned any story where Han featured heavily, and no Han/Leia content was allowed. And if memory serves me right, the editors really refused to acknowledge that Luke and Leia were siblings.

And then the CoF crowd was absolutely convinced that the “other” Yoda referred to in ESB would be Han and his secret Force abilities.

So the whole debate of holding out to the third movie for the true relationship to emerge and the Everyday Dude revealed as the secret Force user debate has played out in full already in the first trilogy—and there are still bitter fans (albeit not as visible) because of it to this day who are angry because their desired ship and hidden Jedi never panned out.

I guess that’s why I don’t try to read too much into the tea leaves such as parentage, supposed triangles etc. because LF has been pretty up front about how things will play out with very little subterfuge or baiting and switching since then.

 

This would basically mirror Han's acknowledging to Leia that she loves Luke and he won't get in the way?

 

No i do not see that. I am thinking at some point all 3 are in some sort of battle/mission and Rey gets in trouble. Finn reacts and Rose sees how he reacts realising he is in love with her. Some point further on in the film in a touching scene (possibly Rose dying after a battle? Doesn't need to be though) Rose tells Finn he is in love with Rey and should follow his heart.

I guess it is similar in that Rose is playing the part of Han in the scene you mention but I am expecting a different ending with Finn and Rey recognising their love for each other at the end of the film.

 

Who cares about an earlier draft? I wasn't subjected to watching that play out. In ESB, there's no angst, there's no pining, there's no competition for Leia's affection. There is a romance between Han and Leia.

The earlier draft sounds like a movie I wouldn't have liked as much as the one we got. I have always appreciated resistance to the dumb Hollywood urge to force love triangles into fiction. GL resisted in both the OT and the PT. Both were ripe for maximum melodrama of the triangle variety, and neither dove in.

I've never seen it.

Edit ~ I googled it to see what it was. LOL yeah, not my thing remotely. Not surprised that I've never heard of it or that it isn't popular and it got bad reviews. It sounds dreadful. I recommend the "reception" section on the wikipedia page.

From the LA Times Review:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...-dies-tour-theater-review-20180408-story.html

This seems like a dead on parallel to TLJ as a sequel actually...

 

Uh no, it's based on TLJ. Rose even calls him "dummy" cause he doesn't get it. Then she kisses him as the FO blows up the door protecting their friends and Finn looks like a deer in headlights.

 

The triangle between Luke/Leia/Han is something acknowledged by the Star Wars creator, and actual Lucasfilm employees.

I'm going to go with them over you and your stalart arguments against fact.

Incredible how, in record time, you can go from being totally ignorant about the existence of a production to, without seeing said production, belittling and berating it.

Amazing.

 

You’re arguing semantics at this point. If that non-existent plot counts as a triangle, I am happy to see its duplicate in the ST. That kind of blink-and-you-miss-it triangle is great. Meanwhile, you’re citing dialogue from a trashed script to support your point. Lol

Yeah well, the story sounds dumb. I have opinions, imagine that. I also don’t read books or watch movies that sound dumb.

 

Love Never Dies is, in fact, mind-boggingly awful. It’s everything #MeToo is trying to bring down.

 

Exactly. The way I picture it is we (the audience) would see glimpses during the movie along with Rose. Rey and Finn though would be oblivious due to their both being naive in these things. At some point Rose will feel the need to tell him cos he is unaware but to everyone else (Rose and us, the audience) it is clear as mud by this stage. Finn will probably deny it at this point but by the end of film he cannot deny it and in the drama towards the end of the film he will declare it, mirroring han/leia on bespin but after they escape, Finn gets injured after doing something heroic to save her, Rey comforts him and submits to her feelings too...big smooch....end credits roll.

Back in 10 years for episode 10 with force kids! You know it makes sense! Disney going to hunt me down cos i have just spoiled a major part of the movie!

 

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

Calling a well known, acknowledged love triangle, well, a love triangle isn't "arguing semantics".

In the original Star Wars Trilogy there is a triangle between Luke, Han and Leia. This triangle was started in the very opening film of the Star Wars saga. There are specific portions of Return of the Jedi that exist solely to acknowledge, and resolve said love triangle. Han Solo was jealous of Luke Skywalker in ROTJ. He believed that his girlfriend, Leia Organa, had a thing for Luke. And for good reason.

TESB ended with a captured Han Solo, and some pretty close/intimate scenes between injured Luke and Leia. For all the audience knew ROTJ could've opened with a Luke and Leia that got together between films in Han's absence. Luke did have feelings for Leia, and she never outright rejected him. They have a deep, intimate connections Actually one quite akin to FinnRey...

Hell Splinter of the Mind's Eye was a Luke/Leia fan dream.

I get that you like to argue, to fight without cause. But this is the most amazing level of "argument for the sake of" I've ever seen you engage in. I have literally never seen a diehard Star Wars fan try to fight against the fact that there is an acknowledged, written triangle between the three main characters in the original Star Wars trilogy.

Next up, just for craps and giggles, you'll be arguing that George Lucas always knew Vader was Luke's father.

And yet it exists, and has played all over the world. Folks can feel any kind of way they want about it, but the thing is out there, and it does have fans.

It's validating to those who always rooted for Phantom and Christine.

 

I prefer the Phantom as a sympathetic, tragic, and horribly disfigured villain who only earns Christine's pity.

The ALW soundtrack is aaaawesome. I can sing along to it. I can't hit the high notes, tho. My voice is too low and husky. but sensuous

 

I always thought the Phantom earned more than just Christine's pity, which is why the events that unfold in Love Never Dies feel organic enough for me to buy. It just validates the way a lot of us, including Mr. Lloyd Webber himself, felt about the vibe between the two coming out of his musical.

The music in Love Never Dies is gorgeous.

 

Again, semantics. I don’t really care if Leia kissing Luke explicitly just to make Han jealous, and then Luke and Leia never getting shown in a romantic context again as Han and Leia fall in love, qualifies as a triangle to you. What made it to the screen is not what I call a love triangle. The triangle got left in the garbage where it belongs. But if no competition for Leia’s love, Leia who was never torn, is a triangle, fine. I like that kind of triangle. I don’t like the kind that got left in the garbage and I hope that kind doesn’t appear in IX.

It’s funny that you accuse me of just wanting to fight when you pick random irrelevancies to dig in on.

 

I think people can have different ways of seeing Luke/Leia/Han. If you define it as a love triangle its fine. If not, its also fine.

ESB was the first movie I saw. I wasn't born during the OT so I didn't know about shipping in those movies. The Luke/Leia side never strike me as huge enough for me to register that there was a love triangle. Luke had a crush on Leia in ANH and then nothing.

 

Agreed. Christine feeling more than pity is what makes it such a beautifully tragic story, IMO. I like Raoul, but my love for Phantom of the Opera (many versions) is the story of Phantom/Christine. I have mixed feelings on Love Never Dies, but I love much of the music and the Phantom/Christine aspect of the story.

ALW's Phantom of the Opera contains, IMO, one of the best written love triangles in fiction, because both parties and their connection to Christine are written strong, which is something many love triangles don't have - usually there's "the couple" and "the other - the one in the way". It's feels artificial, uncompelling, and a waste of time.

A Rey/Finn/Rose triangle is something I wouldn't be for, because IMO, it would only end up being done to make Rose obviously "the other".

 

So you take one of the biggest film triangles of the last 40+ years, acknowledged by George Lucas and other people responsible for actually creating the films, and distill it down to something that's a mere product of my imagination that only qualifies because I say so?

I should've known better than to take your bait. Good grief.

TBH, with ALW's version being the only one I've seen so far, Raoul really comes off as an obstacle to Phantom/Christine for me. I felt that way ages before I knew LND even existed.

I don't want to see a Rey/Finn/Rose triangle because it just doesn't fit the characters and, frankly, sounds dull as dishwater. I don't think we'll see anything approaching that in IX anyway. My money is on us picking up with Rose and Finn either together officially, or like Han/Leia, right on the cusp.

 

I suppose I think if it were to end in FinnRey, there needs to be some FinnRose fallout of sorts (not necessarily a dramatic fallout). I wouldn't like the story being that Rose who has feelings for Finn pulls a ROTJ-Han only in this case it's that she IS the one kind of booted from the love triangle since she's right that the other two have romantic feelings for one another. If FinnRose had a fallout earlier then it wouldn't leave Rose's feelings unrequited (as her feelings would be dissolved), and FinnRey could come together without Rose having anything to do with it.

If there's a time jump, FinnRose could have even had time to develop leading to their fallout or drifting apart or whatever.

 

I simply don't see it that way, even if that meets GL's idea of a love triangle. What ended up on screen is not what I consider a love triangle. What you cited from a discarded script is what I consider a love triangle.

I'm agreeing to disagree with you. That's not bait. I just see it differently. I think the bait is on your end as you seem totally unable to accept that I'm not saying, "okay you convinced me, I change my outlook entirely on fictional love triangles." You seem to want to be able to declare absolute truth and have everyone concede that you're correct or else they're baiting you. It's almost getting amusing how much it bothers you that that's not going to happen.

 

So far the ST road isn't leading to FinnRey.

There's enough material there to retroactively making it plausible, absolutely, but it would be an unusual shift of trajectory to develop in the third film.

Regardless, good acting and writing can make just about anything fly.

It's a half-assed triangle. They don't go as far with it as they could have, and it's resolved with a slap dash sibling reveal. Oh the reason you're so connected is you're siblings! Let's just end this damn thing and move on...

It's absolute truth because that's what the creator and writers of Star Wars declared. They don't really care about your feelings, or mine.

But lady, please don't over state your importance in my life. I just find your constant bid to recreate reality odd, and a bit amusing, as you work overtime to twist truth into opinion. So hey, at least we're both getting a good laugh.

 

I'm gonna put this "love triangle" business to rest right now.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/love-triangle

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Love Triangle

None of the above describes Han/Leia/Luke. Luke is not portrayed as in love with Leia in ESB. Leia is not torn between Luke and Han in ESB or ANH. In ANH, Luke has a crush... and that's about it for romance for him, although many feel Han/Leia and Luke/Leia both have some romantic tension in ANH.

So if IX gives us a "love triangle" of the sort where Finn and Rey are in love and Rose is not in love with Finn and Finn is not in love with Rose, I'll be happy as a clam. Conversely, if it gives us a "love triangle" where Finn and Rose are in love and Rey is not in love with Finn and Finn is not in love with Rey, I'll be less happy at the outset but I will be happy that they resisted the urge to do a triangle that sucks. I will also give the romance a real shot because I think JB and KMT could pull off a great romantic vibe if given a script that allows them to portray mutual affection.

LOL sure, I'll go with the bolded. I promise not tell GL that you think his triangle is half-assed.

 

More than happy to. I'm sorry I engaged in the first place.