ST Finn & Rey in Episode IX

Its not just flaws, its that Rey has no stakes in her story if she has one. We know she will win in the end and while she's at it she will save others too. Like what were the stakes for her in TLJ? I never thought she was in any danger. I thought finn could die or rose. Like the whole resistance couldnt save themselves but Rey she saved herself and others too without any help.

 

Except Finn isn't part of that conflict, especially after TLJ.

I actually thought it was stretching believability when Finn managed to wound Kylo who was Force user. That, along w/ Rey defeating him in TFA made him look really weak to me when I first saw that movie. I get it now, but it's why I think Kylo has to win aganist Rey next time and I don't think having Finn score a win on Kylo makes any sense. If he did, that would make Kylo a total joke. It would be ridiculous. I think it's more likely Finn will get his revenge on the FO (and Kylo) by leading the stormtrooper revolt.

As far as Finn being part of Rey's story, I think they'll spend together & work together, etc. but I think when it comes to whats going on w/Rey & Kylo, that's between them only. Finn's not a part of that, especially after what happened between Rey & Kylo in TLJ.

 

@Doom_Buggy I guess I get what you're saying. I mean...Kylo slowly realizing his troopers are turning against him and his empire's collapsing just because of that one trooper who's supposed to be dead would be...kinda cool actually. A fatal flaw overlooked if you will?

As for what's between Rey & Kylo. Part of me feels like Finn, at the very least, deserves to know what happened in the last one. At the very least he should be made aware of that, just to be fair. Especially since he was honest to Rey about being a Stormtrooper and she forgave him despite being terrorized by them just moments before. Having another confession from Rey would be a nice emotional scene between them because it shows that Rey can openly own up to her mistakes to someone she trusts and cares about. And Finn forgiving her, even though he's definitely upset, would still mean something about their relationship.

I mean, didn't Leia find out that Luke tried to save Vader/Anakin? Sure she didn't agree with it at all, she never did, and it made her sick quite frankly. But it was at least fair for her to know given everything he put her and Han through. I can see why pretty much no one else would need to find out though, otherwise it would be Bloodlines all over again. But it would build trust between them for Finn to keep it a secret.

 

I don't see why Rey owes Finn an explanation or apology for her choices or interactions in TLJ. She isnt accountable to him. I know that's not what you're necessarily implying, but that's what it starts to look like. I think maybe you want to bring Finn into the Rey & Kylo dynamic as a way to ensure that dynamic doesn't overtake the Rey & Finn dynamic, but to me, those dynamics serve different purposes. I feel like it's a little bit like comparing Han & Vader's relationships to Luke.

Also why would Rey telling Finn about what happened in TLJ be comparable to Finn's confession? Finn directly lied to Rey whereas what she did in TLJ wasn't done directly aganist Finn. I don't think the Luke & Leia situation is comparable either because Leia deserved to know about her father.

I'm not saying Rey shouldn't tell or that Finn & the others won' t find out, but I don't think Rey is going to confess to him like that. My impression is Rey is going to initially keep the Kylo connection a secret. She already didn't tell Finn about what happened w/Kylo after they met on SKB and he asked if Kylo hurt her and she didnt tell Luke about the connection.

 

some of this is true of the hero in a story. Like, Luke won in the end and while he was at it he saved others too. The greatest stake for Rey was the throne room scene. Had Kylo wanted to kill her, she'd be dead. Had Snoke seen through all of this, she'd be dead.

Finn didn't have a chance of dying either, IMO.

 

@Doom_Buggy I didn't mean to imply that she owed it to him. I just thought it would be fair for him to know, especially if she cares about him and knows how he feels about Ren. It also shows that Rey isn't above being held accountable for her actions like Finn and Poe. They certainly never seem to get off easy. So Rey keeping secrets and avoiding any sort of judgment or criticism seems a bit unfair. Especially given everything else she has on her side already. This is about the Finn & Rey bond in Episode IX, so I do expect at least some personal moments between them. And Finn should be allowed to have his feelings known on a serious issue. In TLJ it didn't seem like his opinion mattered much to those around him and he got thrown around a lot from position to position. So having Rey express something of that gravity to him, and allowing him to feel the way he feels would be nice. Even if it's a short scene and Finn does need some time to reflect on it.

 

That's understandable @RandomGreyJ. But it's not going to happen.

The person that Rey will confess what happened will be Leia, as she's force sensitive, and she's also Kylo's mom.

Any judgement or criticism will come from her. As she knows how the Force works.


So in this case, I'm sure Rey will confide in Leia what went down.

At this point, I don't see why she would tell Finn the story about the throne room or the Force Skype.

 

@cerealbox You're probably right. I know I tend to get my hopes up. I just like meaningful interactions between those two besides the hug we had to wait two years to see (and the zero dialogue). Even if Rey doesn't tell Finn what happened in Episode IX, I feel like she'd tell him eventually someday. Even if it's in some comic or something years from now. But I could see Leia finding out (in a comic that is since...).

Speaking of which. Since the novel normally has more, do you think we'll get another post-Crait interaction between them?

 

May be you are right. I wasnt around during Esb maybe people thought Han was actually dead. I really thought finn would die but when rose saved him i thought she was dead. But after TLJ i kinda sympathise with kylo more than Rey. I dont want her to kill him. I want to be on Reys side she is our hero but it feels like filmmakers want us on kylos side. This is the first time i actually want the bad guy to win. I find kylos arc more compelling. So . I dont if i explained myself better.

 

At the least, we'll hear what each is thinking about when they first see each other.

 

I know exactly what they're thinking. @cerealbox *Owen Wilson Voice* Wow.


Oh also Finn: These rocks sure are moving away from me rather fluidly as I run past them...almost like opposing magnets from me...like they're specifically moving away because I'm getting close to them. Like they're being propelled from me....

Let me dream people. I will shut up when Episode IX crushes them for good.

 

@RandomGreyJ Dont get your hopes up that Rey will tell anyone about the force bond. They won’t allow her that little bit of honor. She lied to Luke and she will lie to the others as well. The fact she’s even with the resistance is a joke. She’s a traitor imo. Pretends to be on one side while essentially sleeping with the enemy. No. She will be caught by one of them (likely Finn) and casted out so she’ll have no choice but to tuck her tail between her legs and run straight to her soulmate.

 

Why is Rey with the resistance? I dont know. I know why finn is but Rey? Bcoz she is the hero? They havent developed her character at all.

 

Yeah I get she had good intentions because she thought Kylo would be a good weapon against the FO, but she wasn't thinking it through. Did she really think someone in Kylo's position would give himself away that easily to the lowly Resistance? Why? Even if he did go back, the Resistance wouldn't accept him so easily. Hell no, moments before he was in a TIE fighter blasting them to bits and pieces. They'd gun him down the moment they saw him.

And I don't like this idea that whenever Rey messes up (or communicates with the sole evil of the galaxy) it's suddenly "Rey's business" and she doesn't have to share it. I'm sorry but it's a huge galactic war going on and that enemy that Rian tried to make her "relate to" is killing everyone she cares about without a second thought. None of it is just "her business" when there are clearly other people who are involved in the conflict.

If they'd established it where Rey was taking a huge risk adn going undercover to try to take out Snoke in TLJ, then fine. I could deal with that because it would make her character seem more clever in a way, but the way Rian did it? Nope. It's Age of Ultron all over again except far worse.

So yes, I stick by the idea that Finn and Leia deserve to know. Leia deserves to know because it's her son, and Finn deserves to know because a few days ago he was cut down for trying to rescue Rey from this psycho. You never see Finn or Poe get off for making certain decisions, even when they didnt have much of a choice in the situation, so seeing Rey constantly do whatever she wants and still get the hip hip hurray treatment in the end is getting kinda old and like nothing we learned from Anakin and Luke.

And I'm sick of the constant idea that Finn and Rey's bond being downplayed is perfectly fine and doesn't effect the story, but heaven forbid anything between Rey and Kylo not be 100% of the total focus because then suddenly that's bad writing and throws away the set up.

Rey being honest with Finn and coming clean for her bad decisions (while well intended) would be a massive step in character development for both of them. Let Finn be upset because he deserves to be, but have him forgive her because she means a lot to him. Have Rey truly own up to it so they can both move on and focus on working together to put an end to all this.

EDIT: And yes, I think at the very least Finn showing up to take out the KoR to show that he still cares about Rey and forgives her (unlike Ren when Rey rejected him) will mean a lot as well.

 

I really disagree that others deserve to know what Rey decided to do. I also disagree that it was wholly a bad decision, because Snoke was incredibly powerful and at least he's not a problem anymore after this. I really like that Rey is independent and doesn't have to answer to others. Luke didn't have to answer to others either. Also Rey's decision was based on information from the Force (this is not ordinary information), it wasn't her first plan (had Luke come back with her she wouldn't have tried it), and it was based on her humble-to-a-fault character flaw (Rey does not see that she is the hero here).

I am not interested in putting the story's female protagonist in chains having to answer to all these other characters all the time or to fans who don't like her decisions. I want to see her free and independent. She's not quite there yet in TLJ. But IX is the movie that independence/freedom should increase for rather than decrease. I want to see a liberated female character not one who needs to service male fans because they want to see Finn make her decisions for her.

It's like suggestions that Rey needs to seek approval from everyone to make a decision is disempowerment. I like that Rey just makes her decision and does whatever.

PS: Obviously, I think Rey should inform them Snoke is dead and stuff because this information is needed for the Resistance. There's been a massive shift in FO leadership and the Resistance needs to know.

 

To be honest, I think a good reason why she should tell everyone about the Throne room, the force bond, her decision, etc..., is the possibility that Kylo Ren gives a false and twisted version of what happened between them. He already started with Hux for instance.

 

Yea it looks really hypocritical when people who don't want Rey to have anything to do w/Kylo because it somehow removes her agency or something, turn around & want her to be accountable to Finn & the Resistance (but mostly to Finn) for her personal choices. The idea that Rey needs to "confess" her involvement w/Kylo to Finn because he has "a right to know" & so can "forgive her" really rubs me the wrong way.

I think Rey will intially keep it a secret & that is likely to become a problem for her because the Resistance will find out about it. I think it's more interesting if Rey has to face some internal conflict due her choices, yet gets to own those choices. That's not to say she won't be forgiven, but I think that's far more dramatic & gives Rey more agency than making her confess & explain herself.

 

I don't even see what there is to "forgive" Rey for. She didn't do anything wrong.

I'm sure Rey will tell them the things that Resistance needs to know for its tactics. If they were to believe Kylo over her though because Kylo spoke first that means the Resistance isn't really worthy of her loyalty. Who should they believe, the guy on the dark side who murders countless people, or Rey?

Also there's nothing Kylo can say to affect that... If the Resistance thought Rey killed Supreme Leader Snoke, they'd be like, "Whoa, thanks Rey for getting that evil dude out of the way. The fight will probably be easier thanks to you. You're a hero!"

 

Yea even when she was wrong (thinking Kylo would just snap back to the light), she still accomplished something good. She helped kill Snoke who she & the Resistance had no chance of defeating & she helped facilitate the rise of a new volatile supreme remember leader who she's equal in power to & who has feelings for her.

That's why I hope she faces some scrutiny in the Resistance for her connection to Kylo. I'd like to see that connection be just as much a weakness for her as it will be for Kylo.

 

Luke didn't have to tell people about his connection to Vader though. I don't see why it's necessary to tell the Resistance about that. She might talk to ghost Luke about it though.

 

Yeah I don't know really. I agree with you that she does not have to justify what happened : you made a very good case that she made a reasonable guess from her point of view and unfortunately it did not pay off. But I don't really see why she would not share the whole story to everyone, because precisely it was a reasonable guess that Kylo would turn around.

And the thing is we don't really know what will be the situation in IX : if the Resistance is desperate, tensions could arise and who knows if Kylo Ren won't be even worse than Snoke ? I could really see a situation where Kylo Ren would drop the information that she helped him to be in charge and the loyalty between her and the Resistance could be weakened. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, that could be a good way to challenge Rey as a character.

 

I know we’re wrong for hoping for some character development for Rey but some of us would like to see her learn from lying to Luke about the bond. It was used against her to find Luke’s location. Rey just lucks out that Kylo kills him before the information gets out.

Rey is not obligated to tell the others but if she’s going to be on the resistance side it’s the honorable thing to do. To let them know it can be used as a weapon against them. If she can’t show that much decency she should not be with them.

 

I don't think Rey is creeped out or scared. Rey is angry at Kylo for making the wrong choice.

@modaubr Kylo isn't worse than Snoke because he is Rey's equal as opposed to Snoke who clearly Rey didn't stand a chance against. Rey has already defeated Kylo once.

--

That post about character development is a straw man. Snoke is also dead now so he can't pull any info from Rey's mind again. TLJ already showed Kylo couldn't get info from Rey through the bond or control her. He couldn't get information from her in person either in TFA. AND Rey closed the bridge.

The other point is Rey is at the center of this story more than the Resistance. The ending will respect her journey. She's not a character here to serve the story of the Resistance.

 

On this, I think your guess is as good as mine. If there is a time jump anything can happen regarding Kylo. And in fact it was not really my point : Kylo may be weaker individually, but he is surely as crazy if not more crazy than Snoke and I believe he can be really worse than Snoke in terms of global oppression on the Galaxy. A child is surely weaker than an adult, but more dangerous if he is in a position to push the button. If Kylo turns full mad king, destroying systems just because his breakfast arrived too late, I can see how the information that Rey helped him to be put in this position could be damaging to her, if she hid what happened.

And in fact, I believe that there is one person who would support Rey anyway, even if it hurts him, it's Finn.