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Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Hrmph. So you're saying that at the stated length of 7.24m, something close to a 4ft viewport would fit neatly "over" that extra detail separating the incongruously-small window from the other cockpit greeblies, and so by all appearances they did actually design this that way, but then reduced the diameter below that size for some unspecified reason? :oops:

    And that the variation caused by rescaling the smaller viewport to the standard viewport-size only "upscales" the TIE to 7.61m?

    :oops: :p

    Interesting! :D

    Do you have the exact phrasing, though? The cylindrical pylons of the REBELS versions, although in a distant shot they appear to be a differently-designed unit from the ones in the OT, actually have all the major design details of the OT version implemented as surface details, so are presumably just simplified for purposes of CGI and/or aesthetics rather than being intended to represent an alternative unit.

    However, the smaller panel-wings might not be covered by the same consideration. So, I would be curious if these could be the same spaceframe design, just with smaller wings. :D

    Thanks - Jason's a lot more meaningful than I am, though. :D

    If the two ships share the same bow kitbash, the third one's definitely distinctly longer, like you say, though I'd probably use the old WEG "assault frigate" designation for both of them (mind you, the Rebels seem to call everything a frigate sometimes)... [face_thinking]

    @AdmiralNick22 - shouldn't that be spoiler-tagged? :p

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Apparently it was Rebels Recon, not Matt Martin:

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/TIE/ln_space_superiority_starfighter

     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  3. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    What does that mean? We can clearly see the TIEs in Rebels have shorter wings...or are we just supposed to chalk that up to animation errors?
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Or at least to McQuarrie-style artistic licence. Same with the long-necked Star Destroyers.
     
  5. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    I would say the longer 3rd one is from the ship yard that way. It just looks cleaner.
     
  6. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    @Thrawn McEwok

    We have always allowed ship spoilers in this thread without tags. It’s kind of a gray area, but provided it doesn’t spoil major plot points and is about the vessel or fighter it self, we have historically allowed it.

    That said, I’m happy to tag it is any folks find it too specific!

    —Adm. Nick
     
  7. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    That really makes not sense to me....
    "High Command...we have captured several Star Destroyers in good order...let's start transferring crews and use them against the Empire."
    "No...they are enemy ships and people may not like the optics...let's just scrap them for parts instead of using them to fight the Empire."

    =============================
    Edit...was looking thru stuff...never realized this before....Concept art and a starfighter Luke used to dream about from early Marvel Star Wars....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  8. Jedi Knight88

    Jedi Knight88 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2018
    I get what your saying and agree with you.
     
  9. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I mean TBF, the NR was born out of smaller and varied vessels managing to wreck shop. I can buy not wanting to waste the time fueling, crewing, and using massive behemoths, when scrapping them to build hundreds upon hundreds of fighters, or dozens of corvettes is possible.
     
  10. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Fighters and corvettes were good for the Rebel Alliance's persistent campaign of hit-and-run harassment, but if you want to actually stand up and fight and hold territory, you'd need those big capital ships. Otherwise, nobody would be building them.
     
  11. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    How do you like your A-Wing cannons??

    Personally I like how they are in Rebels/concept art. Also...what sort of performance did the A-Wing have before the Rebels stripped them down??

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Darth Zack

    Darth Zack Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I'm kind of annoyed that Fallen Order apparently portrays Venators as being scrapped early after the Clone Wars. The ships may have problems, but they are perfectly serviceable vessels for an Empire that has to police an entire galaxy.
     
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  13. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    "Is that really wise? They are fully functional and the costs for scraping them are rather huge, and that's not even talking about the costs for keeping them around and guarding them until we can scrap them. Can't we just pain them Republic-blue with big red Alliance Starbirds on the upper and lover hull?"


    But would not that be a waste time and money by scraping fully functional ships and then use the parts to make hundreds upon hundreds of fighters or dozens of corvettes that probably need just as much time for fueling and crewing?
     
  14. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    "Apparently".

    If you go through Wookieepedia to the original sources, you find that in that Rebels Recon, when faced with a question about how you could fit three people in the cockpit of a TIE in REBELS, Pablo responded by saying "the wings are smaller but that's more of a stylistic thing, it's not meant to be a separate model or version of the TIE or anything" (4:43), and then goes on to point out that the TIE cockpit in the OT is bigger than the camera angles suggest.

    We then see an awesome Bill George model of the cockpit ball and pylons scaled to match the interior, but apparently "based on photography" (5:06) rather than the scale plans of the 1:1 set.

    This would seem to imply that the cockpit and pylons ought to be the same across all TIE Fighter (and presumably TIE Interceptor) variants, while acknowleding the difference in size of the upright wings, and leaving open the possibility that this is not entirely "a stylistic thing"...

    Then in the tweet quoted in the reference, he referred to "Lothal TIE Fighters", along with old B-wing backstory and a reference to Plagueis being a Muun, among the things that "shouldn't be in there" - from the context, presumably references in Ultimate Star Wars.

    What exactly Ultimate Star Wars says about "Lothal TIE Fighters" that should be ignored is not clear from the context. [face_thinking]

    To answer that question intelligently, we need to know to know what Pablo's tweet was actually disagreeing with... wing size, or something else? [face_thinking]

    I think a Mon Cal rebuild would quite plausibly end up looking that good, especially if (as the hullform of the Providence-class seems to indicate) they've been doing this sort of artwork-rebuild of the Dreadnought spaceframe since the Clone Wars...

    Thanks, and no worries - I was mostly curious what the rules were... :p

    Very nifty. :D Those fighters in the background look like an early variant of that much-used MacQuarrie concept that gave rise to the ESB snowspeeder, and the Buck Rogers Thunderfighter and the Colonial Viper...

    As to the question of scrapping ISDs, I can see your point, but I can also see reasons - outlined below - why the NR would reject the ISD for what they'd regard as rational and professional reasons...

    And at this point, just a random wave at @Jedi Knight88 because I replied to everyone else. :p

    Agreed. Adding some more random speculation, they may also be doing what the UK did after 1945, scrapping all the big ships in order to sell the metal to repay their war debts, with a secondary aim of retaining the yards and their skilled workforce in business when there's no real justification for new building...

    Not necessarily true - the Alliance's fighters and corvettes defeated those big Imperial capital ships, while the big Imperial ships were incapable of doing the opposite.

    Yes, arguments can be made that big pointy ships have a place, not least because they're a roomy carrier platform with cruiser guns, but I can see why the Alliance might have largely dismissed them...

    Also, now I think of this, the NR may lack the logistics chain needed to keep ISDs in service - the very fact they're using the ISDs as parts caches for other, smaller Imperial hulls (and perhaps the odd ISD) rather implies that... and when you want to look like the replacement for the Empire, a visible inability to prevent their big capital ships from breaking down might be a statement you'd want to avoid...

    Just thoughts, but offered speculatively to highlight the existence of intelligible explanations...

    [face_thinking]

    Depend on the A-wing. :p The ones in DROIDS and RotJ have a different type of guns from the ones in REBELS and TLJ. I like the idea that different variants have different weapons.

    The performance, also, probably varies - according to the ILM production memo, the A-wings seen in Jedi are rated at 150 MGLT, and can outperform anything; other sources, however, rate them at 120 MGLT and/or depict them being outflown by the TIE Interceptor...

    Which type of "A-wing" is which is really up to you - my own opinions on the topic are fairly clear (especially now you reminded me which types share the same guns), but basically speculative. :p Though I'd add that a "stripped" or otherwise improved variant of any type ought to outperform the baseline version...

    Given that in both Ep.III and TCW we see the Venators being maintained between missions in big yards on Coruscant, I've always inferred that they're high-maintenance ships which cannot maintain good performance on a long deployment...

    As I said above, I'm thinking that they're basically using the ISDs as an improvised supply line. They don't have control of the Empire's oppressive logistics (high taxes, brutal exploitation), but they can turn the ISDs themselves into enough components to keep smaller cruisers running...

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  15. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Speaking of TIE fighter wings...how do these things land? I think in Rebels we see them just rest on their wings, but those look rather light and flimsy. I think in some other images I've seen them hanging from the ceiling, but then you'd need a hangar that's specially designed for TIEs...
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  16. Ton_G

    Ton_G Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Here's a reasonable compromise: the nascent NRDF kept as many SDs as they could a) reasonably crew and b) were in need of minimal repair; all others would be, as Thrawn McEwok suggests, would be turned into a supply line while at the same time keeping empty vessels out of the hands of the Empire. Thus the SD scrapping was not primarily ideological, but practical yet easily spun into NR propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Both. They can rest on their wings, but the preference is to hang them from the ranks.
     
  18. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    From what I have seen of the planet profile, the ships being scrapped there are wrecks from multiple battles over the planet.

    So it would be like scrapping the ships from Iron Bottom Bay in the real world.

    (Though come to think of it, the US scrapped and used as target practice plenty of working Japanese ships after WW2, so the New Republic doing so is not unprecedented)
     
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  19. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    The SE gives us a TIE landed on seemingly its wings
    [​IMG]

    And ROTJ gave us a bomber on an overhead claw
    [​IMG]

    I must say, I quite like the FO hangar and how it lays out its TIEs, they are not suspended overhead or cluttering the floor of the deck.
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    So...the Marauder Corvette is said to carry 12 fighters, 2 troop barges and 4 shuttles...This is on the Wook and references Starships of The Galaxy....my only real question is........"Where??"
     
  21. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    [​IMG]
    The Marauder always reminded me of the Defiant. A tough little ship, whose scale is iffy and that has a shuttle bay that I always question
     
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  22. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Actually, it rather looks like a Klingon ship...
     
  23. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    I get where they are saying...but the rough numbers just don't add up for me. I could see them maybe having a rack system like the Carrack internal to the ship for 12-14 A-Wings but everything else is just too dang big.
     
  24. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    and funnily enough like a Ferengi Marauder
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  25. Ton_G

    Ton_G Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Authority IRDs are only 8.5 meters long and not too wide. If there is thick enough ventral neck, they could fit plausibly, if tightly.