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Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Wasn't the bridge full of Battle Droids in the movie? Guess this was based off an earlier script (or the script didn't specify)
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  2. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Venator is a much better "early Star Destroyer" than the Victory class. At a glance and to casual audiences the Victory just looks too similar to the Imperial Class. I'd say the most prominent images of the Victory Class come from either the video game Empire at War, or art for the board game Armada. And every time I see these pictures, for a few seconds I think it's a regular Imperial Class until I notice that it's too small or notice the overly large antennae.
     
  3. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    So it looks like it's after Dooku dies, but either right after the ship levels out or right before the broadside - maybe Needa's strike force was just pinning the Invisible Hand down until the Gaurula could close in? (might be that they were small/fast/mobile enough to slip in through the opening made by Anakin and Obi-Wan's fighter run while the Venators were all still pinned down fighting the bigger ships)

    Ultimately I think my issue is more that the Separatists have FOUR different capital ships in the ROTS space battle, while the Republic Navy is just copy-pasted Venators.

    As for the Acclamators, I like them but for consistencies sake I would have preferred the clones be landed in Corellian Star Shuttles - with Dreadnoughts flying higher in the atmosphere as a screening force and Z-95s fighting Geoneosisian Fighters and Vulture Droids in the air around them while Y-Wing bombed the droid lines in advance of the Republic Troops (had I made the movie I also would have thrown in a line about how Yoda was taking "what ships we have" to Kamino with him).

    Yes on both accounts (droids being the bridge crew save for the captain in the movie and the novel being based on a script).

    Grievous also brutally kills his crew over the course of the passages describing the battle; though it's understandable why him smashing a Neimodian's head to a pulp and then irritatingly shaking brains of his hand did'nt end up making it into the film:D

    Personally I've always felt like the Venator looks like something form a decade or two earlier then the Clone Wars - like it should be the predecessor to the VSD, which is in turn the predecessor to the ISD, rather then a ship made around the same time as the VSD to fill a different role.

    To use Star Trek as an example (with the hope I don't lose to many people here, lol) the Venator is the Ambassador-class, the VSD is the Galaxy and the ISD is the Sovereign.
     
  4. Grevious_Coward

    Grevious_Coward Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 30, 2020
    There's actually 3 other Neimoidian visible on the bridge. They're most visible fleeing the bridge after Grevious makes his dramatic exit, but can also be seen in the three chairs at the front of the bridge during previous scenes.
     
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  5. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Yeah, there's Lushros Dofine in the captain's seat. There's there is the pilot station that three Neimoidians, including First Mate Aito Laff, are seated.
     
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  6. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    That's true; I had forgotten about the ones running, but I had never noticed the others before.

    Honestly I would have preferred an organic bridge crew (save for perhaps a couple B1 pilot droids at the helm and some security droids guarding the door) that's made up of Neimodians and some of the other CIS races (and maybe some Humans) in military uniforms.
     
  7. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    I love the Venator's design, but was always disappointed Clone Wars media didn't bother to give the Republic more larger ships. Like at the Battle of Coruscant the Confederacy had Lucrehulks, Muneficents and the Providence-class ship Invisible Hand (an economic term, but perfect for the prequel era too). The Republic had Venators and that was it. TCW didn't help since there the Republic had unarmed Acclamators (not sure we ever saw them fire) and only added Arquitens and Peltas, which were basically corvettes.

    Its pretty interesting the details the novels add for the Neimoidian bridge crew- they're there because it was originally a Trade Federation ship before Grievous claimed it for his flagship. Though I actually like that the movie didn't have him killing the bridge crew, aside from the gore, it felt more like cartoon-ish villain. Though later on TCW did make him into a villain of the week (there he goes running away again).
     
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  8. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    I suppose a big argument as to why only Venator-class Star Destroyers in ROTS for the Republic side is the same reason we only saw Imperial-class Star Destroyers in the original trilogy, compared to say the CIS using multiple ships and the Rebel Alliance using multiple ships. Its a vision of singular conformity. Sure they've added other ships in Expanded Materials to the Republic and the Empire, but on-screen...it's shows the pitfalls of having same ship, same type while also symbolising power.
     
  9. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I actually like having the Republic fleet standardized around the Venator. It makes the fleet out to be this highly efficient war machine...which then takes on a much darker undertone when the Republic becomes the Empire.
     
  10. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    I'm sure this has been mentioned on here before, but I'm almost finished watching Resistance, and last night saw the First Order Bomber for the first time, beauty design.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  11. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    What would the Republic equivariant of a Lucrehulk actually be? A Secutor?

    Arquitens are 325 meters long, so their more in the range of Nebulon-B Frigates and Carrack-class Cruisers then corvettes; lower-mid-sized warships by SW standards (and TCW did also add the armed frigate variants of the Consular-class ships)

    That's probably the reason, it's just that personally I've always found it a disadvantage for battle scenes like Endor, Coruscant and Exegol were one side just uses one ship (or largely one ship) fleets; I enjoy all three of those battles, but I'd enjoy them MORE if the ships weren't all the same (though in the place of Exegol the Final Order fleet being all one ship at least makes sense because Palpatine was mass-producing mobile superweapons)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  12. Long Snoot

    Long Snoot Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2018
    I like to think that the "Jedi Cruiser" name comes from the fact that the Venator is far more compatible with Jedi strategies and therefore common in their fleets: we often see Jedi generals lead assaults on CIS capital ships inside their own starfighters followed by several squadrons of fighers/bombers/interceptors with cruisers often staying behind. A ship that's more focused on capital ship engagement and with a much smaller starfighter capacity such as the Victory would not fit well in this scenario.
     
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  13. Fire Dog

    Fire Dog Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Republic equivariant of a Lucrehulk
    = Maelstrom
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  14. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I mean, we only have confirmation that two were ever built(!)
     
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  15. bsmith7174

    bsmith7174 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Does anyone know what the original concept art was that he is referring to?


    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
  17. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
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  18. AzureOwl

    AzureOwl Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2015
    It has no option but to be similar. There are only so many results you can get from adding extra plating to a Nebulon-B.
     
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  19. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    A) I think the Nebulon B as it is is such a beautiful design and while I generally love a Fractalsponge design, there's no way to make the "Imperial Nebulon B" concept look good.
    B) It does not make any sense, if the ship originally had more plating, for each Rebel Neb B to have the plating missing in the exact same spots.
    C) Aside from maybe the Y-wing, which is the "souped up hot rod" version of the Republic version, no Rebel acquisition of an Imperial ship results in most of the exterior plating being removed. It would be really funny to look at what had to happen to the Rebel Nebulon B for it to turn into that from EC Henry's or Fractalsponge's Imperial version, and then extrapolate what a "Rebel Star Destroyer" would look like.
     
  20. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    In truth, in the films we only really see one Nebulon-B that had the hull plating off that way really and its the Redemption. There are at least two Nebulon-B variants in ROTJ alone. ECHenry figured one without the forward axe while there is another with a heavy front section passed by the Falcon in the background with the Mon Calamari corvette, Gallofree gunship, Mon Calamari frigate and Heavy Corvette before jumping to hyperspace. So we don't know if all Nebulon-Bs look alike, with others just being artistic licence to the movie appearance.
     
  21. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Oh, interesting. I've spent pretty much my entire life watching ROTJ and there's still things to learn! There wouldn't happen to be a handy screenshot of those Nebulon B variants, would there?
     
  22. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Try the screencaps on http://starwarsscreencaps.com/

    It's a bit late for me to go hunting myself. It's 1.39am where I am atm. I should've been asleep nearly two hours ago.
     
  23. Sans_Fi

    Sans_Fi Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2003
    From The Force Awakens
    [​IMG]
     
  24. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Personally I prefer ECHenry's take to Fractalsponges so far for the Imperial Nebulon B. His hangar system is more clever and practical I think whereas Fractal tried to force a Stardestroyer-style bottom-side Hangar that does not fit the design well. But Fractals front looks nice and more covered up whereas ECHenry has that part more Stardestroyer-esque with the tech-rifts open.

    As for Nebulon-B variants, we know the Nebulon-C from the ST had many variants itself as per Art of and TROS Galaxy fleet mix and mash variants with various protrusions addeable and removeable. Kinda like removeable mission specific Bomber clips in TLJ, Nebulon-type ships exist in many classes and sub-variants easily and look to be the most convertible Imperial design (outside of Dark Empire's Modular cruisers from the WEG DE Sourcebook).

    Also love how the EU played with Nebulon-B variants with more than one forward pod clip like in the Heavy-Frigate or Rebel Assault Frigate and other variants from early games like Tie-Fighter and X-Wing. Comics added more visual variants adding rotating wheels to the midsection or else. It really is a rich and diverse shipdesign through which KDY challenged CEC by propably employing or stealing typical Corellian moddeable design ideas and like some Stardestroyers produced by CEC for KDY this ship screams as if it came from the same source of creativity.

    We never had much concept art for the original Nebulon-B ideas but this one...
    [​IMG]

    Looks a lot less angular and more sleek than the final design. More like a Separatist or Mon Cala ship with its hull plating stripped away actually. More fishy than the final design so to speak.



    Here is another fancreated version of an Imperial Nebulon-B version that is less deviating from the original look than FractalSponge and EChenry did:
    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/w8BrlL
     
  25. bsmith7174

    bsmith7174 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Thanks!

    While I have your attention... do you think you'll ever give this a shot? I love your 3D models.