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Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I was thinking that, but if T-65 no-letters is the prototype or is the preceding variant to the T-65B, then I'm sure the article would have explicitly said so.
     
  2. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    T-65 is probably the original production model. Then after a while they get feedback and the engineers go in and start tweaking stuff to optimize certain systems depending on that feedback.
     
  3. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    I need a fleetcount!

    Ships the Rebellion had availeable to them right before ANH. It can/should include both canon and Legends sources, so we need a roster for the Fleet makeup that went to Scarif as well as one of the forces that went to Despraye with the Lucrehulc as well as those that we can see in the X-Wing and other PC games right before ANH.

    Then maybe add a conjecture category featuring all thise the Rebels had right after ANH for those most likely existed pre-ANH already and were not all freshly acquired then.

    Anybody got a list or can help?
     
  4. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 23, 2009
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  5. Chrissonofpear2

    Chrissonofpear2 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2020
    I just did a partial fleet count in the One Canon thread, which should be of some use. Only really focused on Mon Cal ships so far, but I have many other ships, ISDs included, listed in my own references at home.

    In terms of Rebels', thinking 60 to a hundred major ships of gunship size and above, pre Yavin, and then expanding to 400 plus by about 4.5 ABY.
     
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  6. Grevious_Coward

    Grevious_Coward Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    May 30, 2020
    Might be this post by me from a couple of months back that you are thinking of.
    https://boards.theforce.net/threads...thread-mk-ii.21527953/page-1151#post-57179055

    The first Black Fleet Crisis book also has an example of a flexible docking tube. In the book the Lady Luck uses a docking tube that is described as a flexible, vapor tight, telescoping cofferdam made up of rigid rings, to dock to the vagabond.
     
  7. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Quick couple of questions, which I figured would be worth asking here - I have a lot of catch-up replies owed, but I wanted to jump back in feet-first...

    Has the (near-perfect) MC30 frigate been given a statted speed anywhere?

    [​IMG]

    And does anybody know what class the freighter in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight is, or if it shows up outside that game?

    [​IMG]

    Both of these are propelled by sheer personal curiosity...

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  8. A8T

    A8T Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2014
    I'm curious about the freighter in Dark Forces II as well, partly out of nostalsia but also because its a really neat design.

    There is an older version of it in some promotional images and it has some Rendili vibes
     
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  9. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Yeah, I could see it being Rendili, or Mon Cal, or maybe even SoroSuub or TransGalMeg, from its resemblance to the Dauntless and the Bulwark...

    Both the promotional images look like earlier versions of cutscenes in the game (is it spoilers to say where?) - though amusingly, there are differences in the details of the ship between these two images and the game itself, clearly seen in the design of the keel, and also - in at least the first image - a totally different configuration of engines...

    :p

    Speaking of configurations of engines on ships in Jedi Knight, though... take a look at the two MC30s depicted on Nar Shaddaa, in their first on-screen appearance...

    The first one's a conventional forward topside view, on the left around 15 seconds into this clip, but there's another one about 30 seconds in, up at the top of the screen - parked outside Kyle Katarn's window, and viewed from below, with the engines glimpsed at the very top of the screen...



    As they both seem to be casually parked on the Vertical City's equivalent of a kerb in the sky, I'm guessing these aren't NRDF ships... but more importantly, the second of these very clearly has three equal-sized engines at the back, quite different from the configuration one big and two small at the back and two more small ones on the sides of the forward hull, featured on the MC30c since it reappeard in the Empire at War expansion in 2006, as shown here...

    [​IMG]

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
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  10. Chrissonofpear2

    Chrissonofpear2 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2020
    The Sulon Star, yes, as it was named in the Dark Forces illustrated Novellas. I'd personally named this a Rendili Supertransport, around 1500 metres long or more, scaled to the Lambda shuttle in the docking bay below. It's clearly a pretty big ship, but also has the bridge apparently on the underside, close to one of the docking bays.
    I've also checked out all four routes through the Falling Ship level, which is much easier if you also trigger the braking thrusters in the bridge.
    And yes, I've noticed the MC30 too, in DF2, though it took a while to learn what it was, courtesy of Curtis Saxton's Tech Commentaries.
     
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  11. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    There's no way that ship at 0:15 could be the size of a frigate. These weren't actually canonical appearances, were they? I'm thinking it's like the case of the X-wings and TIEs on Coruscant in AOTC.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
  12. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    I just want to say, I also really liked the design of the Sulon Star, and am honestly surprised we didn't get more ships of the type or any appearances in guidebooks and rpgs since many featured even more obscure designs.

    Edit: So, not canon or anything, but I found the design in the intro to this add to be pretty interesting. Is it a lego original, or based on something I didn't recognize?:
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
  13. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  14. Grevious_Coward

    Grevious_Coward Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    May 30, 2020
    Don't think I ever posted my measurements based on the bridge set, so it likely this post by @Sans_Fi and co.
    https://boards.theforce.net/threads...thread-mk-ii.21527953/page-1143#post-57078867

    I also found this nice thread on twitter by Mel_Miniatures that goes into the size discrepancies.


    Interesting enough the Wookieepida for the Arquitens class command cruiser has updated the length to 230m and according to the sources is based on a booklet called Ships of the Empire and the Rebellion. This is close to some more recent measurements that I've made of the Rebels version that I haven't yet posted (I may post them later this week).

    Always liked this freighter design, wished it had appeared in other media.
     
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  15. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    From your linked tweet:
    [​IMG]

    I know it is not fleetjunkie related but, THIS depiction of the Imperial Palace on Coruscant is the one from the early EU that is closest to the final PT Jedi Temple turned Imperial Palace I ever saw. Look at the shape of the ziggurat/pyramid base and the entry gates front structure just like the temple has in the PT. It is just as if Palpatine added a new top tower structure and reinforced it quite some.

    I can move the palace discussion elsewhere but thought it noteworthy due to the image popping up here.
     
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  16. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Victory's Price answered my question!

    The droid facilitated the back-and-forth while Quell retracted the landing gear. She felt the X-Wing vibrate and hum, then the jolt as repulsors kicked in. Her body tinged with the familiar sensation of competing artificial tugs - the gravity of the Deliverance meeting the antigravity of the starfighter - and her feet found pedals as her back and helmet reshaped the seat.

    Strange that you would retract the gear before the repulsors lift you off the deck, but otherwise makes sense.
     
  17. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Are there any good descriptions of ships from the Chiss Expansionary Defense Fleet? The only description I can recall is from an excerpt of the beginning of Lesser Evil (this isn’t really a spoiler), where a heavy cruiser is described as having weapons pods on the sides and shoulders of the ship. The ship is also described as having a metallic sheen, and previous sources just indicated that they’re smaller than Star Destroyers.

    This makes me think that the comic book depiction of a Chiss cruiser in the 2017 Thrawn comic was only the illustrator’s own interpretation, not Zahn’s. Other users have pointed out that this illustration is a flipped exact replica of a ship from an anime, so very likely not too accurate.

    Honestly, from reading the canon Thrawn trilogy and the first Ascendancy book, the first thing that comes to mind is the old canon’s Dreadnaught Heavy Cruisers. That might also be because it’s Zahn and I associate them with the original Thrawn trilogy, but they do fit the description from what I can tell. If they haven’t been used in the new canon, perhaps it’s not completely out of the question.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  18. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Dreadnaughts were in Rebels as I recall.
     
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  19. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Yup - though the Rebels version is somewhat more angular than the Legends version.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    They also show up in the comic adaption of the nu-canon Thrawn novel in their original form.
    [​IMG]

    I head canon this as there being the original version...and then after the Empire took power they did a massive refit on 10s or thousands or Dreadnoughts to the more angular design from Rebels as it was cheaper to do that than build new ships to support the Imperial Navy.
     
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  21. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Well, drat. That does away with my hopes for the Chiss fleet. I still think the image from the Thrawn comic really doesn’t fit with Zahn’s aesthetic. He’s not a very cinematic author, though, so maybe visuals are best left to visual artists. But the fact that it was just traced from another franchise really spoiled that one for me. What sort of ship designs do others have for the Chiss? In the EU they seemed to be too derivative of Imperials in later years, but that made sense then.
     
  22. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    An interesting tidbit from Victory's Price:

    Mightiest of all were the three Starhawk-class battleships - massive vessels whose birth she'd midwifed, with firepower and defenses to match anything short of a Death Star.

    I always got a Chiss vibe from the IPV-2C stealth corvette.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  23. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Honestly I always felt like that even before there was direct imperial influence, they had similar aesthetics - in particular being pretty shiny and clean by the standards of the setting, though with a bit more of a rounded and organic look to them than the empire's sharp and aggressive appearance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  24. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Real late on this, but I just realized the two 'wings' coming off the sides of the MG-100's cockpit, were probably meant to be inspired by the B-Wing's wings.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  25. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    So, I randomly start talking about Dark Forces stuff, and a few days later, this happens...



    :eek: :D

    Agreed with @Chrissonofpear2 and @MercenaryAce and @Grevious_Coward that the Sulon Star is funky and well-characterised, and it's odd that we've not sene more of the design (though perhaps they'd just contradict the gameplay, which would be annoying)...

    They definitely look like they're several hundred meters long, and they're based on the Return of the Jedi design sketch for a Mon Cal capital ship... but you're technically correct, inasmuch as this was about a decade before the MC30 designation was explicitly referenced for the audience in Empire at War... and it's possible that the reappearance of the design was just a coincidence... [face_thinking]

    As a matter of headcanon, I'd infer that based on the date, the fact they appear to be hauling cargo from Mon Cal, and their different engine configuration, they're likely an original MC30, MC30a or MC30B... probably not Alliance/NR vessels, and given the difference in the engines, presumably those are what the MC30c borrowed from the Strike Cruiser...? [face_thinking]

    No idea - looks like a cross between a Wookiee gunship, a TIE Fighter and something out of Starfighter... :D

    While some of the stuff in the LEGO material is created specifically for them by ILM, there's some downright neat stuff that I assume is original to the show, like the shorter, sleeker PLY-2800 in Peril on Kashyyyk, which reduceds the gratuitously large double-height, open-plan plate-glass penthouse suite to a minimum needed for bunkspace, and basically ends up a high-spec starfighter with a kriffing hot-tub lido deck...

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, that's worth noting - the bit on top reminds me of Shimrra's command tower in TUF, though. [face_thinking] And then there's the version in TIE Fighter...
    [​IMG]

    Though of course, I have absolutely no problem with the Imperial Palace looking exactly the way it always has, as seen from Monument Plaza in Return of the Jedi... ;)

    [​IMG]

    I guess there could be a distinction between simple "antigravity", which makes the ship hover, and an active repulsorlift, which pushes upwards... [face_thinking]

    A couple of more

    There are now basically three Dreadnaught Cruiser deisgns - there's the standard type which originated in The Imperial Sourcebook, though this is Doug Chiang's interpretation...

    [​IMG]

    ... and this is how the same type looked in the comics...

    [​IMG]

    There's the sleeker version from TIE Fighter, with a low forward hull and a relatively large engine - here's the concept sketch...

    [​IMG]
    And there's the boxy REBELS version...

    [​IMG]

    The variation doesn't bothr me that hugely, though there's no question the first type remains the classic, recognizable one. As I think I said before, the REBELS design looks like a deliberately simplfied design that avoids complex curved details, and has perhaps been re-engined again... [face_thinking]

    On the question of the Chiss designs, I took the "weapons shoulders" to be the curved sections at the back of the Nightdragon, either side of the engine....
    [​IMG]

    I've always thought that the best characterization of Chiss ships was the weirdess of the TIE-cockpit scout in Specter of the Past, with four Chiss wing assemblies, one pair flanking in a way that roughly suggests the usual wing pylons, and the second pair behind, similar but "flaring aft at the tail" - I think that sort of incongruity is an excellent trick of Zahn's, like how he characterises the Generalirius of the Illumine Kilhorde in terms of his "brown hair and wrinkled, rubberly-looking skin", which gives a sense of disorienting familiarity and uncomfortable alienness...

    The two Chiss types we have good visuals for are the Clawcraft, which has Chiss wings...
    [​IMG]

    ... and the Talon interceptor from SWTORMMPORG, which has the same Chiss wings... ;)

    [​IMG]

    A tangent: is the tail on the Clawcraft an Imperial deflector/hyperdrive unit that actually appears on variants like the Raptor and the Clutch...? [face_thinking]

    [​IMG]

    ... except, that doesn't make them any better than a crashing A-wing. ;)

    Well, the StarFortress seems to have been designed as a T-wing, so it sort-of needs them for the shape, too... ;)

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021