main
side
curve

Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. RogueWhistler

    RogueWhistler Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2021
    I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the general questions thread, but what was the earliest source to establish that the Millennium Falcon was a YT-1300 freighter, and produced by the Corellian Engineering Corporation? Was there ever a time that The Flight of the Falcon's version of its history could have held up?
     
  2. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    The Star Wars Sourcebook, WEG, 1987.
    Better minds than me will have to answer that one, but personally I don't think that version of the Falcon's history lines up particularly well with what we knew of it even just from ANH. Even if they didn't specify make or model, the Falcon was consistently described in the earliest lore as a battered, heavily modified freighter. "Flight of the Falcon" suggests the Falcon began as a prototype fighter craft intended for use by the Empire and stolen by Han (which also places the story in conflict with ESB, which is odd given its 1982 publication date although I guess it could have been written earlier and just sat in the "we'll get to it eventually" pile for a while).
     
    MercenaryAce and RogueWhistler like this.
  3. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    The story can still be salvaged if one would have the Falcon impounded by Imperials after Han modified it, with the Empire considering to turn it into a series of fighter craft due to its quality mods by Han and Chewie and them constantly evading them with it. But Han steals it back from the Empire afterwards and ruins their plans of turning the Falcon onto a series of Imperial likewise excellent ships. Could even tie into Joe Schreibers novel backstory that has the Falcon impounded and Han and Chewie on a prison barge for 6 months before getting it back, before ANH.

    Han talks in ANH about big corellian made Imperial ships and seems to imply Stardestroyers (before the introduction of KDY as their maker and Kuat) and before the Solo movie showed CEC building them too for KDY. Always sounded as if Corellia/Corellian was intended to be Imperial or rather the heart of the Empire maybe, before Coruscant came to take that spot. While Lucas had his Had Abbadon concepts and name, instead of Corellia, do we know Had Abbadon as a ROTJ concept wasn't predated by Corellia in ANH as a likewise one that is only mentioned but not shown?
    In Legends Corellia wasn't fleshed out much until the book trilogy went there and X-Wing comics did too. It rather was blank except for building ships and Corellians were turned into a Han Solo template of pilotes and smugglers stereotype of people.

    The plot about an Imperial prototype ship stolen ended up being used for Slave 1 though actually. Seems they tried to attach that story to quite a few vessels. X-Wings were Imperial Prototypes by Incom, Falcon was said to be another, Slave 1 too as a Firespray KDY prototype/prison guard ship. With only the PT having Slave 1 belong to Jango before Boba and the YTs predate the Empire.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Host/ 19X Wacky Wednesday Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    That goes right back to the ANH novel.

    Leaning close, Kenobi gestured toward the far end of the bar. A small knot of rough-looking humans lounged there, drinking laughing, and trading stories of dubious origin.
    "Corellians - pirates, most likely."
    "I thought we were looking for an independent freighter captain with his own ship for hire," Luke whispered back.
    "So we are, young Luke, so we are," agreed Kenobi. "And there's bound to be one or two adequate for our needs among that group. It's just that in Corellian terminology the distinction between who owns what cargo tends to get a little muddled from time to time. Wait here."
     
    Alpha-Red and ColeFardreamer like this.
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Man planet of the hats much?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
    Alpha-Red and Iron_lord like this.
  6. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    You'd have to change a lot of non-trivial details about the story to make things work in that context. For example, in the story as written Millennium Falcon technically isn't even the name of the ship - Millennium Astro-Engineering is the manufacturer and Falcon is the class name, making the name "Millennium Falcon" equivalent to something like "Incom T-65B." (The story also mentions "Millennium Hawks" and "Millennium Fighters.") You'd also have to reconcile Han working directly with the Rebellion circa 1 BBY or so, not to mention reconciling that date with the caption placing the story during the "early years of the Imperial Outlands region." It certainly could be a fun "one canon"-type exercise to figure out a way to get it to fit, but I don't see a way to do it that leaves the story itself mostly intact.
     
    Iron_lord and Alpha-Red like this.
  7. RogueWhistler

    RogueWhistler Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2021
    Thanks. That makes sense, so much seemingly-fundamental information that wasn't actually in the movies comes from there.
    Lando appears in the story (with his head drawn over Leia's body, à la Ken Palpatine), so it was definitely post-TESB. The general portrayal of the Falcon is definitely off, but Lando's presence makes it sort-of work with TESB, though it's still not a great fit.
    I think I remember a retcon about Corellian-made ISDs that were slightly faster than usual, but that line's been pretty significantly overlooked and overwritten by things that came later. Even the modern version of a bulk cruiser doesn't really make sense with what Han's saying.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  8. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Well, there are several different takes on what the "big Corellian ships" might mean (none of which are actually incompatible)...

    * Just because the ISD is a KDY design, doesn't mean they build all of them, or even most of them. So CEC may have a repuation as the best manufacturers of ISDs. We used this (pre-reboot) in WARFARE but I doubt we originated it. They may even be allowed to produce their own improved version of the designs...

    * In the very next paragraph, we made Vaufthau, the co-producers of the big, old Invincible-class dreadnought, a subsidiary of CEC, so technically Han was outrunning a "big Corellian ship" whe he escaped CSA Shannador's Revenge in the Corporate Sector and might be talking-up the incident - checking my notes, the idea of Vaufthau being part of CEC was one I supported, but I can't say if I originated it; possibly an example of me never being one to offer one answer when I can provide two contradictory ones, or possibly completely unintentional (I have a vague idea I just liked the assonance of "Vaufthau and Vanjervalis")... ;)

    * CEC may also make big, fast ships of their own that are rarely seen in canon. The obvious example of this (pre-reboot, again) is the 950-meter Proficient-class light cruiser from Hero's Trial, which is describe as "sharp-nosed" and "of Corellian design", and probably fast - it has a non-Corellian power core from Damorian, Esseles-based manufacturers of the super-fast Carrack-class crusier; but is lightly armed for its size - the same guns as the much smaller Carrack - and apparently not that heavily armoured, employing hull-compartmentalization for protection...

    So, there's more than one right answer...? :p

    On a slight tangent, the evolution of continuity around KDY has always bothered me - WEG introduced them as a producer of blunt, utilitarian designs like the Nebulon-B, the Ton-Falk, the Star Galleon, the Super Transport freighter, the Juggernaut and the AT-AT (and if the SWSB's characterisation of the AT-AT is anything to go by, perhaps largely doing final-assembly on other contractors' modules), with a habit under the Empire of picking up on big ideas originating elsewhere - not just the ISD, acquired by recruiting the daughter of the head designer at VSD-makers Rendilli, but also the Hoth ion cannon, previously rejected by CoMar; somehow, 1990s fanon evolved this into making them the Old Republic's default producers of fast, big-pointy spaceships... :confused:

    :p

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  9. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    We do see pieces of ISD's being built on Corellia in Solo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    idk if this question fits here, but was the first depiction of the Death Star's focusing lenses? I recently learned they could be spotted in X-Wing Alliance if you did one of the optional objectives in the Death Star II assault.

    edit: I'm mistaken, the lens i mentioned damaged when you take out a power node, I don't think you actually see it? Either way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  11. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013

    That is exactly my beef with KDY too!

    KDY steals and buys ideas and in-sources them while outsourcing all hard work again.
    CEC has plenty of original ideas and design trademarks but does subcontract for KDY and others and improve others works, yet is treated like the little brother of KDY.
    SIENAR makes a fuss on smaller scale craft that usually supplements KDY larger ones and rather sells ideas for carriers of those to KDY which then hands it off to CEC etc. to actually make it work with KDY optics and design language.

    And when one might think these companies are the big powerplayers there comes TaggeCo who seemingly as a Food Company covering for an Economy-Mafia seems to outplay and outgun them all importance and influence-wise. I am at the point that I do wonder if Tagge actually does anything aside money laundering for others.

    There is a huge dissonance between companies you see produce stuff, design stuff or simply act as rich powerful folks without actually ever seing them do anything to earn that influence and power.
     
  12. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Ha, you're right! I never even noticed that was Lando. And he is definitely wearing Leia's "Hoth" gear for some reason. Interesting! Makes me wonder if this story received a hasty re-write / art update shortly before publication, with the original story possibly looking a bit more like ColeFardreamer's speculation above (but in a post-ANH timeframe).
     
  13. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Random thought: Has anyone ever screenshoted and analyzed the parked ships in various scenes in the Mandalorian involving space ports, such as the one at Navaro or the place where he recruited Bo-Katan? Cause, I don't think they would go and make a bunch of new designs just to populate a blink and you'll miss it shot, but at the same time, pausing the video and looking at it none of them look real familiar. (Also one looks a lot like the dropship from aliens)

    I hope you use these powers responsibly.

    And by responsibly I mean with wild abandon.

    Yeah, that sounds about right. In particular, it was also giving me big Starfighter and Jedi Starfighter vibes, but I can't quite place why. I would love to see a non-lego version of it.

    Indeed.

    The Lego Star Wars Force Awakens game also has some original designs - notably the Takodona skipper, Guavian Marauder (distinct from the larger, blockier Guavian ship seen elsewhere), Prana Predator, Rathtar Wrangler, rebel transport, and Jakku scavenger* - all of which I would love to see with non-lego designs. https://www.ign.com/wikis/lego-star-wars-the-force-awakens/Vehicles

    *Which might admittedly just be a recolor of a different clone wars era lego ship (which got used in FFG), similar to how the Gozanti is in the game, just colored brown and called the Takodona cruiser.

    Frankly, it even makes sense, given that it is a design with a long production history, commonly modified to sometimes radically different shapes and abilities (assault frigates), used by countless factions, and was sometimes built by license rather than by the original manufacturer.

    IE the capital ship version of the Z-95 or the Gozanti.
     
    Sean_Connery and Iron_lord like this.
  14. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Apparently they did just that with the Dreadnaught in Rebels.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
    MercenaryAce likes this.
  15. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    True. I suppose the Wookiee gunship in rebels was also used for one brief appearance
     
  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    According to Wook, apparently "Ships of the Empire and the Rebellion" from the French/Spanish Star Wars Encyclopedia gives the Imperial Arquitens length as 230 Meters?

    This ship is as more varying sizes than the Hammerhead.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2021
  17. Grevious_Coward

    Grevious_Coward Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 30, 2020
    Yeah, saw that a few weeks back, and I mentioned in my last post that the 230 meters length for the Arquitens was close to some measurements that I've been meaning to post.

    The first one is from Secret Cargo, where there is a nice side shot of a Gozanti and Arquitens, chasing the Chandrila Mistress and Ghost.
    [​IMG]
    The Arquitens comes out to around 235.78 meters, but may actually be shorter, because the Gozanti is likely slightly further from the camera, as it appears to stay to the port side of the Arquitens throughout most of the chase.

    One other interesting thing is the length of the Chandrila Mistress. According to official sizes the Taylander shuttle is 43.5 meters long, but Chandrila Mistress length comes to 77.67 meters in this scene. The larger length appears to be right as the Ghost is shown as smaller than it in the episode, where if the Chandila Mistress was 43.5m long they would be similar in size (the Ghost is visible docked next to the Chandrila Mistress in the above image, but because of the resolution it is hard to get a proper measurement of it).

    The second measurement is from Iron Squadron and shows an Arquitens flanked on either side by two Gozantis.
    [​IMG]
    This scene was a bit harder to measure because the perspective meant that I had to figure out where the rear of the middle engines is located. I think I did a reasonably job of finding it but I'm probably a few pixels off, which may change the measurements by a meter or two.
    As the Image show the minimum length of the Arquitens is 224.6m, and the maximum length is 240.56m, with an average length of 232.58 meters. This length is close to the length in the first image and close enough to the 230 meter length that I'm willing to say that it may be the correct length for the Rebels' version of the Arquitens.
     
  18. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    I love math
     
    Grevious_Coward likes this.
  19. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Watched TROS today (thank you Show Case marathon).

    Noticed the Ghost landing at the end celebration for the first time:
    [​IMG]

    Also wondering, "Ren's Destroyer" and a First Order "Command Ship" are mentioned - I believe as the same ship:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Is it visually different than a Resurgent-class Star Destroyer and could it be of the same class as the monster Star Destroyer seen above Cloud City?
    [​IMG]
     
    Gamiel, Snafu55, Senator Wan and 2 others like this.
  20. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    1. Known all the time.
    2. Ren's Destroyer / Pryde's ship is called the Steadfast. Confirmed in TROS Visual Dictionary.
    3. The oversized Star Destroyer is the result of rushing to make a conclusion and making it too big.
     
    Snafu55, Daneira and Alpha-Red like this.
  21. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Is it a Resurgent-class Star Destroyer?
     
  22. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Yes.

    Don't forget, they were in a hurry to finish all the fighter/ship shots. Errors are bound to turn up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
    Snafu55 and JABoomer like this.
  23. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Thanks. Pretty chill name for the fleet flagship.
     
  24. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    What are we talking about, size errors again? In the past haven't we turned those into variants or entirely separate classes?
     
  25. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    I've never been in favor of that, personally. It's rather Saxtonian nitpickery. (Unless the size directly matters, but that's rare.)