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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    You get a better look at it in the beginning of ROTJ when the shuttle comes out of the small front hangar, and the TIEs come out of the big one. But yeah, no dorsal bay.

    Now that I think about it, when the Venator opens up its dorsal hangar doors and you see the big hangar inside...doesn't that hangar take up most of the interior volume? Shouldn't you be able to see the big rectangular opening on the bottom?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2022
  2. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    If you look at the Venator cross section you can see it. The hangers are on both sides and the central area under the dorsal doors is like an aircraft carrier's flight deck for launch and recovery. When looking down through the open top doors you can see the lower hatch.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2022
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  3. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    With all the new ships I am getting really miffed that there is not a new series of cross section books giving us details about them.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Unfortunately I don't we'll see any soon. Another regular source back in the day, the RPG, doesn't exist anymore and wasn't canon with the new stuff anyway.

    I remember - and still have a copy on my shelf - of the X-Wing video game official guide that had the breakdown of the ships of the Empire and Rebel Alliance, where a lot of the specific details of their weaponry and size appeared - possibly for the first time. I miss those days!
     
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  5. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    I like details...and especially with ships larger than starfighters I like a decent look at the insides and layout. Unfortunately the only thing I think they would do for another cross section book is to repackage that they already have with another couple of new designs as opposed to a new series covering The Clone Wars, Rebels, Resistance and the D+ shows.


    edit to add..another thing that gets me is some of the vagueness that writers have in their books. Just reading Ahsoka again and about 1/2 the ships mentioned get no class names. Ahsoka's light freighter, the Black Sun Agent's ship, the 2 Alderaanians Bail sends to find Ahsoka as well just have a vague reference to their ship. They need to point the writers to Wookieepedia and start using at least class names for ships if not given names.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Back in the day, TCW did have its own cross-sections book separate from the ICS books - Incredible Vehicles. Most of the pics were exterior-only, but there were some cutaways - the Subjugator-class Malevolence, and the Vulture's Claw.
     
  7. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    I got that...IIRC there were 8 cross sections in that one.
     
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  8. Long Snoot

    Long Snoot Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Honestly I'd settle for a book with few/no cross sections at this point, the lander from Mandalorian S2 is still only named "imperial transport".
     
  9. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    That would work to a lesser degree for me...but I just want more information about these ships. So much left un-defined like most of the ships in Resistance.
     
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  10. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001


    This is brilliant.

    I wonder about some of the scaling.

    But the love and care put in is exceptional!
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
  11. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Not to say we haven't gotten a few things - the Haynes Guides spring to mind - but not much seems on the horizon.
    I will be checking out the High Republic guide next year, but the impression I'm getting is that it will again be more of a collation of existing information rather than anything really expository.
     
  12. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    Or a blurb book like the Encyclopedia of Starfighters And Other Vehicles.
     
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  13. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    I know we were coming from an era with the prequels where many people complained the ships were all too "Pretty".

    Many (including myself) wanted ships with more warts and a more "lived in" feel.

    But looking at that picture there...we went too far the other way. This is so utilitarian...so blocky.

    They can have ships with character and style...just not shiny silver darts and tiny little sportscar ships that you can't fathom how they fit anything inside.

    And of course the answer is, well we had that...and I suppose, in the end it all balances out...but unless you get it all in the same material together, you can't see the forest for the trees.
     
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  14. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    But why not have it all. I want the flashy, pretty ships. I want the utilitarian ships. I want the beat up light freighters. I want ships that look different than what we have seen on screen before.

    I have said before...I think they should have put money up front and designed dozens or even hundreds of ship beforehand to be used throughout the shows to make space ports look busier or to have soem sort of patrol ships over planets as the main characters fly in.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
  15. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Speaking of Kenobi ships, anyone got pictures of the kidnapper's ship? I thought it was a cool design.
     
  16. gat-65b

    gat-65b Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2022
    I would absolutely love to see more ships. I do have concerns about the blockiness, simple shapes trend of recent ships on the shows. I don't know if you have seen the recent Doug Chiang Celebration panel on designing things for the saga, but while it's a good watch and Chiang comes across as a super nice fellow (as always) I don't really agree with his philosophy for Star Wars. As head of design for the franchise, that means some problems for ship design.

    He's previously talked about simple recognizable shapes as his design language for Star Wars and here further talks about being able to recognize the era of the production from the type of vessel. I think that makes what we see on screen limiting. Frankly, I think Star Wars needs more out there ships - lean on alien cultures giving some variety. Think of how different a Mon Cal cruiser is from a Star Destroyer. Even just within the more traditional lines of the saga, when you think of it a B-wing looks pretty darn different from an A-wing. No one would have expected a flying saucer in Star Wars. But Clone Wars did it. More ships. More variety. Through the prequels, Star Wars always had the most interesting new ships to me for a Sci-fi franchise. Now, unfortunately, it's mainly just slightly differently shaped slabs.
     
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  17. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    I find that disappointing. If you look through all the ship stuff in Star Wars history there is a lot of cool stuff. Marauder corvettes, Liberator crusiers, Dauntless cruisers, Bothan assault cruisers...and don't even get me started on Carmine Infantino's work on the old Marvel Star Wars.

    There is a lot of fan art for official ships out there is you look.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  18. gat-65b

    gat-65b Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2022
    Yes, there really is a lot in the history. Didn't mean to sound overly reductive of even more recent stuff. Rogue One had plenty of neat designs. And I actually like the Last Jedi new designs. People may not like it's role in the film but I love the starfortress design. Not to mention the MC-85.

    To reflect on what you have said, I just wish there was more of the variety that is in the EU and parts of the saga showing up on screen. Give me your Hapan Battle Dragon or Guri's Stinger or even your K-wing. Or in Saga terms, the equivalent of a Geonosian fighter or an N-1 to shake up the design language. I concede we are seeing a lot of freighters but I would love to see an interesting shape or two. I love the Obi-wan show otherwise, but even the imperial designs, I find lackluster. Both shuttle types remind me on an I-7 howlrunner which even back then I found the most boring of Dark Empire's designs. Heck even Andor's trailer showed what looks like the most basic and unintersting evolution of a LAAT I can think of, taking away everything interesting. I hold out hope for a swerve or to, but largely I think Star Wars is skewing more basic these days. (Oops sorry I screwedup the quote function - still trying to get a hang of things. This is in response to Chris0013's last message)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  19. CernStormrunner

    CernStormrunner Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2000
    Have you seen this?
     
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  20. gat-65b

    gat-65b Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2022
    Oh I have. I think he does some good stuff but I actually think EC Henry shoehorns Star Wars designs abit with his views, demonstrated by some of his redesigns (for example the Tri-wing). Not that they aren't nice, just constraining whereas I feel Star Wars should and has been more expansive. Plus I don't really ascribe to rule systems where there are constant exceptions. Also don't agree that the ST iterative designs really break any specific instantly recogizable shape rule vs the OT ones - they just aren't typically as nice, which is why the original proportion/shapes were the utlimate picks in the first place. The inspiration for Star Wars includes diverse sources as a hamburger with a pickle, street lamps and outboard motors so I argue against any set rules - ie. Star Wars ships are really THIS thing until it's that thing in my view.

    Ultimately I would just prefer less conformity to what people think Star Wars designs SHOULD look like and more experimentation. Swing for a homerun approach and I will be happy with a few misses vs going for singles for a baseball analogy. Having said all that, if the approach WILL continue to be more restrained, I hope they incorporate some more varied shapes into their easy silhouttes. For example, think U-wing with it's protrusions and angles more than just a rectangle or a rounded rectangle like has been the trend. Toss in some wings (ie. the Twilight from Clone Wars isn't anyhing special but extra wings do it give it some character) But ultimately everyone has their own preferences - heck my favourite is Star Wars ship despite what I've said is a Mon Cal cruiser which isn't super complex - but as simple a thing as the blisters on it are everything in giving it an identity to me.
     
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  21. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Agreed completely. Star Wars is a galaxy of a million worlds, countless cultures, and who knows how many ship making companies - designs should look pretty diverse considering the number of sources for those ships. But things just feel so constrained recently - well, relatively recently, this was certainly a problem in the later years of legends as well - every imperial fighter is a tie, every imperial capital ship is a triangle, every rebel ship is a pickle, so on and so forth. I liked it back when the empire had assault gunboats and rebels had liberators and things like that.

    I especially liked how in the X-Wing games both sides used Neb-Bs, Corellian Corvettes, strike cruisers, dreadnaughts, and whatnot; really made it feel like a civil war.

    I also feel the need to nitpick the video and note that the high republic design he complains about originated as a PT design, and actually appeared in TCW as a Pyke syndicate ship (which is its own can of worms but...). Pretty much all the High Republic designs are reused concept art.
     
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  22. gat-65b

    gat-65b Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2022
    I sometimes envy Star Trek in this regard of having alien ship lines. I don't think Star Wars needs to spell out which aliens make what ship type but it is a good backstory reason for divergent or unique ship type. Who's to say the Gossam don't make useful ships? Or one of the newly introduced aliens. Would love to see some of Zahn's Unknown Regions alien ships on screen. I will confess via my bias that I am content with more Mon Cal ships remaining the flagships of the Rebels/New Republic but would still welcome all sorts of others in the fleet. Along those lines, does anyone remember the old Mon Cal freighter from I believe Star Wars Gamer Magazine? I'd love to see a Mon Cal fighter.

    And sorry that I kind of hijacked things but I agree the one Kenobi ship I did like the look of (from what briefly I could see) was the kidnapper ship.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  23. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 21, 2014
    I think the Starfortress would have worked better as something like the WW2 PT boats. Keep most of it's design but remove the bomb rack. Plenty of turrets for defense but it launches capital ship scale torpedoes or missiles.

    And this brings me back to my eternal argument. They should be mining every source they can for more ship designs and build a library that they can access to mix things up. Video games, comics, concept art, etc... There should be no reason not to show different capital ships and starfighters as security forces for planets. Or for there not to be dozens of different classes of freighters, passenger ship, yachts, etc...to be shown going into or out of space ports.

    From what I have found this is concept art for a SW Video Game by Gustavo Mendonca..
    [​IMG]

    And this is from an ILM art challenge...artist is Paul Dainton
    [​IMG]

    Things like this should be fleshed out more and put in live action or animation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
  24. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Hmm, first one there looks more like a Halo ship...second looks like a Homeworld ship.
     
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  25. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    First one reminds me of the Chiss designs from the Thrawn's Revenge EAW mod.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2022
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