ST Force Ghosts In The ST Discussion Thread

To be fair though, Anakin's repeated reverence to Vader's helmet and "talking" to his grandfather in TFA made it all the more frustrating that Anakin ultimately never showed up.

I think that the Han scene in TROS might have been better served by the Force Ghost of Anakin Skywalker appearing to straighten his grandson out with a few home truths about the path he was taking.

 

Anakin should have been part of the story because Rey Palaptine and his grandson are his direct concern. Palapatine is back. he has a granddaughter. he put his claws on his grandson. It makes sense. However, I don't think that Han and Ben scene should have been replaced with Anakin and Ben. Han and Ben packed a punch and it was a right scene to do. I just think that Anakin should've had presence in different scene(s).

 

My mind has been changed about Anakin being in ROS. He should have replaced Han in that scene.

 

Anakin talking to Ben made less sense than Han talking to Ben. Kylo killed Han.

This scene is closer to dead Padme talking to Vader, and not so much to the OT ghost master/mentor thing. Ultimately, one (that is, Anakin/Ben) has to talk to himself and accept himself, and that's more effective if the 'counsel' comes from the very source of your 'pain'. It's better therapy,

Lucas called the jedi 'intergalactic therapists' once, and in think TROS Han is in fact either Luke or Anakin. We see Ben/Kylo touching Vader's helmet, and then we see flashes of Han on the bridge. Then we see Han dressed as he was on the bridge facing Kylo and saying to him 'I'm your memory'.

It's not so different from Luke appearing as younger Luke in TLJ when facing his nephew. That appearance was based on a memory too. 'See you around, kid' sounds like Han.
Maybe the idea was a thing since 2014/15. In Ordinary People, one of Abrams' (and Driver's) favourite films, [SPOILERS]Conrad's therapist(Luke) impersonates Bucky (Han), Conrad's (Ben)dead brother, in order to elicit relief through catharsis...and it works. Conrad talks to someone that's not there(0:20):

 

I think it might have made for a nice scene. Kylo spends all this time trying to get through to Vader, “speaking” to him and worshipping the charred helmet. For that appearance then to actually be Anakin and not the person he was expecting, might have been interesting.

 

After the reveal that Kylo was really Anakin's grandson, to ignore Anakin's ghost and to expect him not to appear to Ben.... I just don't see there is any reasonable justification to not have HC film a series of short segments, carefully created and directed.

 

I have a feeling that Filoni will rectify it on his animated show and then LFL will claim that it was all part of a big plan.

I mean, he is esotheric so more likely to feature FG more prominently or do some stuff via WBW, etc.

 

Another thing copied from the EU.

 

Maybe, but it would have made less sense. Ben first approached 'Vader' because, in his view, he could not count on Han and Leia and Luke. But he needed 'family', and Snoke/Palpatine took advantage of that. '

'Grandfather' was always an empowering prosthetic limb covering an aching phantom limb, a poor substitute for his living family. But, of course, both limbs were illusory, and the product of bad choices, manipulation and increasing evilry. 'Family' was always real.

It was not his relationship with Anakin that had to be fixed -that relationship never existed to begin with- but his relationship with his family, of which he was largely responsible.

The same, in other words: Kylo had to go back 'home': to Han and Leia and Luke. Anakin was never home. He could have been, but Ben was 'seduced' first. In TROS Ben had to face what he had done and who he was in relation to it; that had nothing to do with Anakin, and everything to do with Han.

 

I can agree with that, thematically.

I just hoped for a kind of scenario whereby Kylo opened Pandora's Box in terms of altered expectation, and the one person that he thinks would be pleased with his efforts appears to castigate and scare him instead.

Kind of like how Scrooge is scared into going straight by the appearance of Marley and the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present and Future. That sort of thing. I think it would have been really neat.

 

It has been confrimed that Rey went into WBW and heard all the jedi voices including Anakin. And bet Filoni will come up with something regarding WBE with Ahsoka and ghost Anakin. I like that they just voices tough the force and use her as a vessel to kill of old Sheev. sure i love Anakin cameo and i think there's a deleted scene in there soemwhere as they got all major actors for their characters.

 

It has?

 

I'm not sure it was ever covered in the films as to why Kylo sort council from the mask of Darth Vader... We assume Snoke promised him the power that Luke/Leia could never provide, but in TROS it becomes clear that Kyo believes he's actually communing with the spirit of Anakin/Vader. But of course it's up to the writers to create the connective tissue between these characters... and the limitations are the limitations of the writers, not the limitations of the possibilities. We know Anakin became a force ghost at the end of ROTJ, so we know he has the ability to manifest himself to the 'living'. Rey sees Leia and Luke at the end of TROS, so we know it's not a power (the ability to see force ghosts) that is exclusive to Luke Skywalker. So the question remains, why would Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda sit back and not try and intervene whilst Ben is being corrupted? I think it would have been very easy/natural to incorporate this into the plot, given that a major element of the OT and PT were the Jedi discovering they could retain their identity beyond death. That theme is never progressed/evolved in the ST, which is something I'm sure Lucas would have done. It instead just becomes a tick box exercise in cameoing Yoda... and later Luke/Leia.

 

They didn't incorporate it in the plot because it wasn't there. Jedi voices retroactively makes Jedi lack of involvement dubious but they never interfered cause nobody ever thought about it. Til it was a convineinet fans ervice to have favorites in the movie but without looking like they are stealing Rey's moment. Cake and eating.

 

Yeah the novel confirms it when she's almost at death''s door and hears the jedi speak to her she looks deep inside space and it is the WBW.

 

What isn't in the movie didn't happen. this is important because fans tend to be disappointed when something from alternative sources doens't get important going forward.

That they didn't mention WBW means they have an easy way out of it. Casual audience doesn't know so it technically doens't exist. what directors, writers, actors, novels, etc say does not have wide reach so movie clobbers that 100%.

It doens't mean they won't use WBW in the futuremovies but they haven't been ready to set it up in a big way yet. hence it's total absence.

 

I mean when she looks deep into space we can gether that she's in some dimension there for a second as she hears the voices of the jedi that the force gives her and the strength that comes with. It kinda looks like it in how Rebeels shows it.

 

Well, she was alive when she heard the voices. There was no voice when she died. In fact, they compounded that she died with glazed over open eyes, Finn's "Oh no Reey" and Ben's devastation. I don't know much about WBW but I always thought it was different from netherworld. Correct me if I'm wrong. WBW is like a time continuum where past, present and future exist simultaniously. So technically she would hear voices from past, present, future and not necessarily only dead people aka ghost. it's more like their voices through time. That's why Filoni says that Ahsoka voice=/= dead Ahsoka.

 

Yeah, it's past, present and Future, it's also what i think where all life was created and the force cmae to be. WBW is also Mortis where Anakin, Obi Wan and Ahsoka went. she heard voices from the past like Mace Luminara, Aylaa Secura And Kanan from Rebels. The Present are Qui gon, Anakin, Obi wan, Yoda, and Luke as they speak to her directly and isn't voices though the force like the others' Ahsoka might be future.

 

What is the quote? It may have been mentioned in the Visual Dictionary in another context, but I doubt the WBW is actually referenced explicitly in the novelization.

It's because he thinks she could be alive at that point in time ( the present ).

 

Ahsoka the White is now a time traveller.

 

I thought this was supposed to be about the novel. But I doubt that is said in either the novelization or the VD.

 

maybe not but it is what i gathered from sub reddit star wars leaks and even tought of it during i saw the movie.