ST Force Powers In The ST Discussion Thread

She is clearly stabbed in the shoulder though by one of the guards and it’s loud.

I was mostly reacting to the idea that she hadn’t been hurt yet.

 

I think this is applicable to Rey's past (and is basically why I don't have a problem with her abilities). In the years of very modest living on Jakku, she likely used the Force -- knowingly or not -- and for practicality, simply doing. There was no trying to use it, and no one telling her anything about it.

 

My biggest issue isn’t about what they can do with force powers, but coming off as some unbeatable hero right off the bat is so boring and unrelatable. The reason we fell in love with characters like Luke or idk even Rocky Balboa is that they came from nothing and despite having powers they get tested, and a lot of the times losing before winning against their goals or an evil force. We follow their struggles and more often than not their struggles are what makes us fall in love with the characters because they are relatable to our struggles.

With Rey I don’t see that the relatability. She’s too strong with the force with no consequences. The only struggle I see is she has to accept the fact that she doesn’t have parents with her. I know there’s more to it, and I can see how some people without parents can relate to Rey,

 

The problem with the Force in this film is that it's a magic wand. It's not something outside of yourself that you have to train to master. You don't have to try and fail and get better. This bothers me more about it as I move further away from the movie. I get that there can be departures from orthodoxy, and i'm good with the end of TFA, but the fact doesn't need to take time to master it is a real problem. Because we have to go free space horses or something.

 

I think you're right. No one ever told Rey she was supposed to fail, so she doesn't.

 

What is the force power hierarchy?

Does a Jedi Mind Trick require more power than a Force Pull? How much force power is required to block blaster bolts while blindfolded?

 

Or some who struggle with letting go, or accepting something about themselves, or with another form of anxiety. For instance, the two scenarios in which Kylo presses Rey to "Say it" hit pretty close to home for me.

 

When people assess Luke’s powers early on they sometimes glance over his Force ability to connect with the Force afterlife world and essentially allow Obi-Wan’s wisdom and knowledge to take over his mind in moments where he’d probably struggle without it.

That’s an incredible power that Rey, through 2 films, hasn’t really had the ability to enjoy.

However, she has shared a mind bridge with someone that’s more advanced than her and they’ve established clearly that the process has allowed each of Kylo Ren and Rey to experience memories and ideas and likely some training concepts. So, it’s that type of thing combining with her struggling more earlier in her life and possibly using the Force while on Jakku to defend herself or survive that, along with the Force awakening and strenthing in this ST, that I take to accept where she’s currently at.

She has struggled though. Mostly learning hard life lessons but those are still struggles too.

She was captured.
She had been mind probed by both Kylo Ren and Snoke.
She’s been tossed around by Snoke.
She was deceived by Kylo Ren to abandon her training and not trust Luke.
She was stabbed in the shoulder by a Praetorian Guard.
She tried to Force pull the same saber that she had been able to in TFA but Kylo Ren’s increased Dark Side power allowed him to stop her better then before.
And despite all of this it still remains that if Kylo Ren had wanted her dead primarily in both TFA and TLJ she would probably be dead. Even injured he had her back up against a cliff and showed no interest in anything but being with her and training her. Snoke presented her to him for an easy kill that would have ended her but he declined and made it clear he wants her as his equivalent of a queen.
And despite the fact that the girl from poverty who had to fight to eat was given the opportunity to rule the galaxy she turned it down but may still be closer down the path of the Dark Side than she was at the start of TFA than she realizes regardless. Doesn’t mean she won’t stay Light side but we see the first cracks in her armor that Kylo Ren could possibly continue to work to tempt her more in IX.

 

Another reason to think Rey strole the Jedi mind trick from Kylo Ren’s mind in TFA:

We see Kylo Ren try a Jedi mind trick on her immediately during their first mind bridge moment in TLJ:

“You will reveal Skywalker to me!” with his arm outstretched officially confirms he knows the move and then makes it clear that Rey likely stole it from his mind earlier.

 

Actually, the training was intended to hinder Force usage. Think back to the scene in TPM when Anakin's floating fruit to Padme. Anakin says Ben would be upset if he were caught doing that. Causing fruit to flow, while possible through the Force, isn't the intent of the Force, and while it may seem like trivial usage in this scene, it demonstrates that one can become overdependant on the Force, to the point where one can feel trapped by Force use ("You don't know the power of the Dark Side"). The Sith view the Force simply as a tool, and use it without regards to consequence. The Jedi try to limit their Force use to as little as possible, or to only use the Force when their goal is in line with the Will of the Force.

This is why Luke's final act is so important - he chooses NOT to use the Force against his father or Palpatine, because to do so would have turned him to the Dark Side. Luke needed to step aside so that his father would fulfill his own destiny, per the Will of the Force. Had Luke continued to fight, he would likely have given in to the Dark Side, prolonging the battle. Vader would have been killed, denying the Prophecy, Palpatine would have used lightning anyways to tame Luke, and as the novel pointed out, the fleet was operating under Palpatine's guidance. His death left the Imperial fleet uncoordinated, giving the rebels the advantage.

Which is exactly what Anakin and Luke did, too. Initial Force use isn't dependant on training, otherwise, there would never have been an initial Force user, since there would be no one to train them.

Force use comes naturally, though it initially augments skills one is already using. Once someone is made aware of their Force use, they begin to explore other skills. That said, Luke did pretty well on his first try blocking lasers.

Fact is, we really don't know what's going on in the mind of the Force user. We can't "see" what Luke saw when he blocked the lasers. Was it "Jedi reflexes" that allowed him to see where the lasers would hit? Did the Force help guide the lightsaber to where it needed to be? If the Force "controls your actions", when how much training is really needed? Let the Force flow through you, and it'll show you what to do...

In that case, the real trick is remembering to "listen" to the Force (Jedi philosophy), rather than simply "using" the Force (Sith philosophy). This is also why it was important for the Jedi to find Force users when they were very young. Because Force use is innate and natural, and good habits must be instilled as soon as possible. You don't want a Force-strong baby having a fit and launching their parents across the room when they're hungry, or bringing down the house because they got spanked.

 

I don't buy the argument that we even have accelerated powers, really. We have the explaination in the movie as to why Rey is as strong as she is. Not sure what else is necessary.

But even if we do, it boils down to story, the conflict between Rey and Kylo does not precisely mirror Luke and Vader. So I don't expect it to be a story problem. And I'll certainly take what we've seen of Rey so far to Anakin jumping out of speeders and skydiving without a parachute any day.

 

How often did Luke use a lightsaber in A New Hope? He didn't until after he had training with Yoda in ESB. Before his training he was using it like a pocketknife. And then after what little training he had? Luke was never very good on a Jedi level scale.

Compare to Rey.

 

Rey has a really high midichlorian count. Hopefully that works as an explanation.

 

Both movies so far have given plenty of hints that there is something else about Rey.

Both movies make a point to mention how she has seen the island and even the tree.

I fully expect a mystical explanation on IX. Maybe she was an ancient Jedi who has found a way to reincarnate, or something.

Whatever, my point is that the movies go to the trouble of having her mention she has seen a lot of stuff before.

 

Maybe she has a different journey.

 

There can be only one Journey:

 

This only makes sense if you think force power and character journey are inherently linked. I don't think they are.

 

Except we've already seen that. Anakin could pod race, which no other human could do, by subconciously using the Force. Luke used the Force to destroy the Death Star with what? a ten minute lesson?

I think the issue is a little oberblown.

 

Agreed, as are most of the complaints hurdled at TLJ