Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

I'm pretty sure - at least in the EU - that the Clone Wars was framed by the Empire as a "Jedi civil war", where Dooku and the Jedi Council were fighting each other for control of the galaxy, not caring about the uncountable lives lost in the conflict.

 

I think the book Cataylist brings something like that up.

 

Not gonna lie, the idea of former Separatist worlds joining the New Republic and having a PSF of Clone Wars era CIS warships with New Republic markings VERY much appeals to me.

--Adm. Nick

 

I wish the Droid Gotra partially is made up of Separatist War Droids of all kinds...

 

The propaganda department had some work then to do since Dooku never called himself Jedi after leaving the order and there was likely no official mention of something like that during the war to not arouse more suspicion from the Jedi.

 

Well their building up the post OT Pre ST era....And we know Filoni love his Clone Wars ....So, chances are...we may see it one day

 

The problem is, the CIS was basically founded as a falseflag opponent. It had two purposes;
1. Gather all of Palpatine's potential rivals in a single group and make them easy to destroy.
2. Act in such a cartoonishly evil way as to discredit any form of rebellion against the coming Empire as just being more set of Separatists.

Since the ROTS novelization is both legends and canon, we know even Dooku didn't believe in the Confederacy.

Its no wonder liberated Separatist worlds ended up Imperial fortress worlds (at least in the old EU, but FO space is implied to be in the same region) with this mind, and I also struggle to see why anyone would back up a CIS revival with this in mind. That said, we don't know much of these two factions. Legends had something called the Confederation, yet it had nothing to do with Dooku and Gunray's Confederacy.

With that said, I'd still like to see some new Hoersch-Kessel designs, always loved the CIS aesthetic, even if I believe their cause to be doomed from the start because of Dooku/Palpatine's machinations. We've seen evolutions of the Empire/Rebel concepts, but never a CIS evolution (for obvious reasons). We saw something like new Vulture Droids in Resistance, I'd like to see them expand on that. Maybe the Hutt remnants bought out Hoersch-Kessel, or a lot of NR PSFs buy new ships from it as Nick mentioned.

 

The only part of the ROTS novel that's canon is "when it aligns with what is shown on screen," which basically means it's not canon at all.

 

Even if he didn't refer to himself as a Jedi afterwards, it was well known he left the Order for ideological disagreements. We know what happened because we've seen the movies. An average galactic citizen hears that a former Jedi tried to break away from the Republic to form his own government, and then hears all the other Jedi attempted a coup to take over the Republic? It fits the narrative that the Jedi always wanted more power but disagreed on how to do it.

@Havoc123 I mostly agree. The CIS lost the war, all their forces were destroyed. Both Imperial and Rebel characters who lived through the era seem to regard them as "the bad guys". Then after 20 years of not existing, of public opinion being against them, the CIS is a faction again? And they rival the New Republic in power? It strains credibility.

But I think there can be room for a smaller revival, and that this could appeal to some worlds. Some former Sep worlds missing the glory days, or hating the Empire but also not wanting any galactic government in their business. Even Ryloth, which fought the CIS, didn't join the NR.

I also really like the CIS aesthetic. I'm not expecting to see a brand new droid army pulled out of thin air. But an update on some of the designs, mixed with some Clone Wars museum pieces would be nice. (Heck old Clone Wars equipment could be justified for any faction, from pirates to Imp warlords).

 

Well it is not necessarily the CIS anymore...It is the New Separatist Union. Different entity with unknown goals. But I would say it is safe to assume they want nothing to do with the Repuclic...new or old. But for bad or good reasons? I for one want more information....and preferably for them to NOT be the bad guys...just people who want nothing to do with the New Republic.

The border skirmishes mentioned in Victory's Price...who are the aggressors? Are the NSU just trying to live their life and the NR is trying to put the boot to them??

 

So one thing I've been thinking about how in The Last Jedi Novelization Snoke mentions how no one saw him as the being a candidate for Supreme Leader of the First Order and essentially "Heir to the Empire" ...Lol

While obviously we know now he was Palpatine puppet it does make wonder the power struggle between Imperial Remnant factions especially if in the Mandoverse Thrawn is going to play a role.

Perhaps not in the same vein as Legends but could this Mandoverse in some way with Rangers, Ashoka, Mandalorian etc see Imperial Warlord villains be our antagonist (And most likely Thrawn being the big bad) only to get defeated and thus pave the way for a leadership vacuum to where Snoke can come in.

I wonder if their was some sorta Imperial Civil War, and if not a civil war in the same vein of say Legends....Various leaders trying different things, each getting eliminated or killed by the hero's of whatever series they could appear and then Snoke coming in and uniting the disparate factions under The First Order banner.

It's just something that occurs to me as the world building for the Post OT Pre ST era continues to develop over time.

 

@Jid123Sheeve

Given the more new canon progresses, the more it looks like it is utilizing the Expanded Universe of Legends as an idea pool, kinda like Marvel's MCU does with the comics, we might face "Heir to the Empire" Mando+spinoffs and crossover version and then, whenever canon will hit that part of the timeline, after the warlord mayhem is over, we could slither right into the "Dark Force Rising" but instead of the Katana Fleet they look for the missing Imperials that fled Jakku, requiring those to present a fake fleet or fleetsized scrapyard to get those hunting for them off their trail. Maybe "The Last Command" then gets the hunt for the hidden Empire closest to Exegol so that a diversion is required, aka not Palpatine but Snoke reveals himself as the enemy to distract from Palpatine despite having played seducer, teacher and friend to heroes previously Joruus style!

Post Thrawn though, as you said Snoke might fit the bill of Forceusing villains, be it Hethir, Kueller, Brakkis and else. As a combination of those, he may have attended Lukes academy before we reach the above mentioned villain reveals. Him controversial yet friendly at the academy before seeking his own apprentices? And instead of goldenplated Waru, goldenrobed Snoke requesting children?

If Disney could be original one day let me know!

But at least to me it sounds as if Snoke fills several roles that may merge the Thrawn trilogy with post trilogy story villains. I mean, have Snoke be Brakiss turned Hethir later on and Palpatine is his spirit Exar Kun! Merge little Ben and Kyp Durron. I see it kinda all fall into place easily. Or am I thinking too much Legends here? (biased I know!)

Just wait till the Grysk send "Nom Anor" to the (Imperial *cough*) Centrist Ruling Council after that...

I mean, Bloodline basically was The New Rebellion as a canon version!

 

I really wish we were getting more content after Jakku that was building the galaxy. I really want to see how it plays out. How planets run themselves, what ships the individual PSFs are using, how they interact with each other and the NR.

A planet like Eriadu with a PSF made up of ISDs vs Jelucan with maybe a Recusant and a couple Dreadnaughts? A planet that is a constitutional dictatorship that keeps a sense or 'Imperial Order' but where the rights of the people are respected...the governor is the ultimate authority...so long as he is working for the good of the people? Victory's Price said

Spoiler

that former Imperials have their rights restricted...can't vote, can't get government contracts, etc...but is that just at a 'federal' level with the NR? Do individual planets have the right to say they can vote in local elections and get .gov contracts at that level??

 

Ugh that sounds terrible for post ROTJ Imperials under Mon Mothma...

Spoiler

I mean, what about forgiving? Integration? Healing? This post ROTJ new canon NR looks like it is Mon Mothma's Empire all over more and more. Forcing all they can on Imperials, be it reparations, hunting down even minor Imperials or supporters and now no votes, no contracts, like not second class but "lets bleed them out" citizens?

This is not the NR's Nürnberg War Trials post Endor, this screams more of vengence and victims destroying former Imperials verbatim. What about all the Imperials that turned Rebel or want to turn now but are afraid of it due to the NRs harsh restrictions for Imperials?

No wonder the NR shot itself in the foot post Endor.

 

Seems to me like writers are trying to show consequences for 'unrepentant Imperials' but only make the NR look bad in doing it. Yes...those who committed war crimes should be tried and punished...but the rank and file should just be mustered out and sent home.

 

Take this with a grain of salt since I haven't read the book (I've got lots on my "to watch/read list"). But you're assuming making the NR look bad isn't the whole point. Freed's other work like Battlefront: Twilight Company and the Rogue One have a slightly more cynical (and arguably realistic) look at the Rebellion. That's not to say realism is inherently dark/cynical (there's a great "Trope Talks" video on that), but it seem darker because Freed looks at negative consequences that other writers like to gloss over. Freed dares to ask questions like "Where do Rebel soldiers get toiletries? Are they trained? Are they paid?" Also seen in Twilight Company are characters who joined the Rebels not for lofty ideals but their own selfish reasons, and the acknowledgement that planets are *big* and it's hard for a guerilla force to hold territory on that scale. Now, in the typical story after the Good Guys win the revolution, the new government is perfect and everything is sunshine and rainbows. I can only assume by having the NR make some dubious decrees Freed is trying to subvert those cliches.

In writing you often give villains some "good" traits and give the good guys some "bad" traits so the characters and factions aren't completely one dimensional. But sometimes authors over correct. This is something Star Wars has struggled with a lot. (It's why in some Legends stories the Imperials so cartoonishly evil you wonder why anyone would ever join them, and in other stories all the atrocities are white washed to the point that they're almost heroic.) So maybe in an attempt to make the NR a realistically flawed government, Freed went a bit too far in the other direction. YMMV depending on the reader.

Spoiler

Also I'm pretty sure it's on a Federal level, because in Star Wars the galaxy is so big elections on the planetary level don't seem to matter that much. Last time I remember them being mentioned in a SW story was the Darth Plagues book.

 

Originality is overrated and that doesn't mean it's good , you know how many original things are out their that could care less about...a lot.

Plus as you said NuCanon is taking the MCU approaching of farming from the EU but changing, re-inventing and streaming and considering I love the MCU and couldn't care about Marvel Comics at all, it's working for me so far.

I say Thrawn should be the first to meet Snoke myself really make him Joruus but less crazy.

To be fair the New Republic needs to have some flaws to justify then negligence of not being ready for the First Order and then going KABOOM in TFA. Which i think most of the Post Jakku storytelling (Mandalorian) is doing a good job in showing.

 

I am not against the 'realistic'...in fact I welcome it...I want a nuanced and complex Galazy. But something I would have preferred is some sort of "where are we now" work when Disney took over that established the broad strokes after the Battle of Jakku up to TFA. Nothing that gave away the FO or Resistance...but in something like Lost Stars or Aftermath (or Bloodline talking in the past tense) that established right up front what happened to former Imperials with regards to legal status and rights. I just think the 1st post RoTJ book should have made reference to that situation....otherwise we are left with it appearing that a writer is just pulling it out of thin air for the sake of his or her story.

 

I mean that's how most continuities are when it comes to details.

And the broad stroke exist as....The Empire fell, New Republic has 30 years of peace, in the Unknown Regions First Order emerged...Kylo Ren is created...KABOOM goes the New Republic....and that's it.

Everything your describing are the details that are gonna very from author to author sometimes.

The fact that the Endor to Jakku era of that one year is honestly as consistent and fleshed out as it is, is kinda amazing starting from Shattered Empire to today.

 

Given the lack of warcrimes trials (which should have been super easy given what we learn in Victory's Price), it seems like they took the worst of both worlds.

Either arrest them all, or try some. But don't put restrictions on people with no real way out for them.

It does remind me somewhat of what the US did in post-sadam Iraq, but also weaker, since we don't see much of it.

 

I agree the New Republic should be flawed, but sometimes it feels like the New Republic was nothing but flaws. Like when the New Republic capital was destroyed, we lost... two named characters? Korr Sella and Villecham?

I guess the galaxy was overall mostly peaceful but like in Bloodline Leia had already basically given up on improving things and was just going to retire. And that was before she found out about the First Order so things would look even worse after that.

To sum up my complaint, its hard to feel like the New Republic did much post-Jakku (and pre-Jakku isn't looking that optimistic either), so it doesn't feel that tragic when its "gone" in TFA. Leia was getting little to no help from them and pretty much any "good" character (like Poe or other old friends or children of Rebellion veterans) had already left the New Republic too. No friendly (active) admirals or Senators, the reference books mention some but that doesn't count for much without any details. Especially with the First Order being more overpowered with each new movie (first Starkiller base, then the Supremacy and then the Final Order fleet).

The Mandalorian was doing a great job of fleshing out the world a lot more, that felt a lot more like "flawed but worth fighting for" New Republic whereas the actual sequels had the New Republic as an afterthought mostly (one system wiped out and its gone). I just hope the rest of the TV shows continue that trend (not like there's been much comics or novels in the later post-Jakku era, and much of it was focused on ripoff OT-era stories of fighting the First Order anyway).

 

I mean considering we are getting a show called Rangers of the NEW REPUBLIC, (And if any of the rumors for who are gonna be in the show...the good ones not the actress who shall no be named ones...are even remotely true) you may get your wish of seeing a New Republic more to your liking.

That is of course if that show is anything like I'm thinking of.

 

Now lets be honest here. The NR did NOTHING post TFA.

Yeah the NR seems like an after thought since no one really reacts when it dies and no one ever talks about bringing it back or any left over forces.

It really feels like something the creators felt obliged to put in the movie and then got ride of it as soon as they could.

 

This is all true till Rangers of the New Republic retcons that notion....A bit perhaps ;p