Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

A statement that can be applied to Star Wars fandom in general

I mean the Wookipedia gave Kylo Ren the title of Warlord too so I think it can be a very loose term indeed.

 

It was bad enough that the First Order blatantly violated the Galactic Concordance and despite the Resistance's warnings, nothing was done about it until the Hosnian destruction. But now with Rise of Skywalker, we have the Sith Eternal also breaking the concordance. We have 2 separate armies breaking the treaty and it's a bit much.

Did the New Republic not have any kind of enforcement policy on treaty violation? If so many people and entire armies can run circles around the Galactic Concordance without consequence, how does the New Republic expect any other organizations they sign treaties with (Hutt Cartel, Chiss Ascendancy, Mandalorian clans, etc.) to honor their deals either?

The New Republic had problems long before the First Order showed up if they didn't even have a proper enforcement policy. Yes the First Order damaged the Republic easily, but if they didn't someone else would have it seems.

 

Weren't both of these armies secret?

 

Yes. The Final Order was so secret that even the First Order (Minus Snoke and probably Pryde) knew nothing about it.

 

Pretty sure Leia and the Resistance were screaming to anyone who could listen about the First Order at least. That's why there even was a Resistance to begin with.

I mean, by the start of TFA it seemed already common knowledge (to Han, Leia, Lor San Tekka, etc.) that Ben Solo ran off to join a pre-existing pro-Imperial government complete with armies and starships etc.

 

Yes but many in the New Republic thought Leia was just a radical seeing enemies everywhere hence why they did nothing. The Resistance is considered a radical group by a majority of the galaxy who are a bunch of warmongers.

 

You're assuming that Ben Solo joining the First Order is common knowledge known by everyone in the galaxy . . . because his parents and an old family friend knew about it.

But even if it was, the First Order is keeping it's strength secret. There were two secret armies involved in the Clone Wars as well.

 

To be fair I have problems with that too. The Jedi and Republic had serious issues if they didn't know this stuff was happening until Obi-Wan decided to follow a bounty hunter. This is actually one of the more serious problems of the PT plotwise.

Considering one parent founded an outright army named "Resistance" to combat First Order, it's more than just those few people that know about the FO.

 

It's never been suggested that the *existence* of the First Order was kept secret from the Republic and the general public, only that how powerful they were and the true scope of their forces was kept secret.

 

Visual Dictionary even says that those centrist worlds in Bloodline made the basis for the Public First Order which was only thought to be a Organization of Imperial Sympathizers

While the REAL First Order and it's massive military might was kept hidden in the Unknown Regions.

 

I just reread the tfa visual dictionary. There’s nothing to suggest Jakku was seen as the end of the war, it’s described as a last stand of the empire or mop up. Rooting them out. Endor is still the definitive end of the war.

I think the problem with the new republic was no Jedi. They needed the Jedi to be the enforcers as in the old republic. Mon mothma was right to disband the military but there was no Jedi to keep the peace. Kylo Ren messed that up...

 

The TROS visual dictionary has a pretty clear timeline of the rise of the First Order.

 

As seen in Rebels, you can get someone from street rat to combat ready padawan in just a few years. Luke's own training to knight took about a year.

Luke's slow curriculum for his students is jarring in contrast to this.

 

It's not entirely Kylo Ren's fault that the new Jedi are gone. They weren't strong enough to defeat him, after all. Granted, some of them sided with him when the time came to choose a side. But the fact is that Luke did fail them by not making them strong enough to defeat the dark side, whether it was inside them or in the form of their fallen brothers and sisters. And they failed him too. But while Ren and his cohort are adults and are responsible for their actions, that doesn't fully absolve the failures of their elders. And in the end, the older generation knew this, and they took responsibility, and they sacrificed themselves to right what went wrong. But it also took the sacrifice of the younger generation, and perhaps that was the lesson that they needed to learn, and did in the form of Ben and Rey.

Maybe what made Ben and the other Jedi fall and fail was their clear vision of the magnitude of the hidden evil that survived out among the dark stars. They lost hope and chose to side with the darkness rather than to fight it, because they could not deny its power, and were afraid for themselves. And doubtless that was also the failure of the Republic, and the millions of beings who chose to bring back Imperial glory rather than fight and struggle to build something new and better and truly liberating. They did not face their fears, they turned from them and therefore sided with them.

If we consider movies on their own, it's clear that the Republic failed because the Jedi failed. The Jedi and their beliefs symbolize the power of hope, and their destruction was what allowed the First Order to rise and thrive. It sent Luke into exile, and drove Han and Leia apart. But this is not because they did anything wrong themselves. It is not the work of one set of heroes to set right the wrongs of an Empire. It is the slow work of generations. And that crucial process of not only creating a new hope (OT) but also transferring it to the new generation (ST), is what almost went awry in the sequels. But it was set right, in the end, through sacrifice.

 

THIS....ALL THIS !!!

 

Did they ever mention the Hosnian system by name in any of sequels?

 

At least once in The Force Awakens, at the resistance base on D'Qar.

 

JJ: Hey Pablo, what system is Coruscant in?

Pablo: Uh...Hosnian. Definitely mention the Hosnian system.

 

We're told the First Order is so super secret etc. despite Leia building an army to stop them. If the FO intended to be secret, they have a funny way of going about it.

Ilum is one of the most important planets in Jedi history. Luke apparently didn't prioritize training Jedi in Canon, he spent decades researching Jedi lore and visiting Jedi historical sites.

Ilum, after years of being hinted at being Starkiller base, has now finally been confirmed to be one and the same as Starkiller in the Rise of Skywalker Visual Dictionary.

So... isn't that like the worst place to hide your superweapon? The chances of Luke visiting Ilum were very high. Either he'd show up wondering why there was a shield, all these troops, or if they move Starkiller via installed hyperdrive engines he'd wonder why it was missing.

Either way, Starkiller Base being built on Ilum sounds like the worst possible construction site if you're trying to hide your organization from the last Jedi.

 

Even if there was a public FO, would a few friendly FO distractors handing out pamphlets be enough to prevent Luke from finding out what was really going on at Ilum?

Was that Finn's true role on Starkiller and not sanitation? Holding up Luke Skywalker with small talk while the FO fabricate a distress signal on the other side of the galaxy to send Luke packing?

FN-2187: "Master Skywalker, please pay no mind to that giant turbolaser on the side of the planet. That was built by the old Empire and definitely not used by us, your friendly First Order. Um, do you like hot chocolate?"

 

And then do what, exactly?

 

Start investigating. We know he got somewhat far hunting Exegol after all based on almost nothing.

If nothing else, he'd put a public call on the holonet describing Ilum and asking anyone to report it if seen to him. Making it much harder for the FO to hide it. And if the FO kills any smuggler who sees it or whatever, that will send even more people looking.

That'd also bring the entire Republic science and astronomy department into the scene too, wondering how a planet could just disappear. They would be on a lookout for any gravitational anomalies that would indicate where the planet was moved to. It'd bring a lot of unwanted attention to the FO.

And if it's in the Unknown Regions, Luke will just go looking in the Unknown Regions. Where he'd find even more FO presence.

 

Well Luke would already know Illum as, "That enormous crater ridden hellhole that the Empire ruined."

The First Order only started assembling Starkiller Base around the time of Resistance anyway.