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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22 , Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    There's no sexism in the Empire in canon. Everything we see of the OT-era Empire in stories such as the Thrawn books, Inferno Squadron, TIE Fighter comic, Lost Stars, etc, has plenty of female Imperials, many in command roles.
     
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  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    There's allusions to mild sexism though - the notion that it's specifically made a bit harder for women to rise to the top.
     
  3. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Any sexism in the canon Empire wasn't nearly as blatant as Legends. Rae Sloane was openly an admiral by the time of ROTJ, versus the only known female admiral in Legends was Daala, and the impression was that her promotion was mostly Tarkin's doing and even then she was posted away from the rest of the Empire.

    In Lords of the Sith, there's even a female Moff. Again, we don't see any female Moffs in Legends until post-Hand of Thrawn trilogy (maybe as late as FOTJ).
     
  4. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Wasn't Tavira a Moff?
     
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  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Even in Legends, "Empire is very sexist" was mostly a KJA thing. Writers writing prior to Jedi Search, had no problem including high-ranking female Imperials.

    Admiral Betl Oxtroe was introduced in Dark Empire Sourcebook back in June 1993. Jedi Search, which painted Daala as "as far as she knew, the only female Imperial admiral" was March 1994.

    Via marrying a Moff, murdering him, and taking his rank.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  6. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    She was married to a Moff, then assumed his duties when he had a stroke. I don't think her appointment was ever official, though. Around that time, the Emperor probably had more pressing matters to deal with, like, the Rebellion. ;)
     
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  7. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    You see it particularly in SLOANE POVs about how she could get talked over in meetings, etc.

    The idea is that the Empire isn’t de jure sexist like in Legends (it wasn’t just KJA; Stackpole referenced the non-huMan track and all) but that de facto sexism exists the same way it does in our modern society.

    I don’t know that I’d call it “mild” — it’s still sexism, but a different kind than the official policy.
     
  8. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013

    How old is/was Lady Moff Tavira anyway? She looked young/tiny always on covers and in comics as if a teenager. What as the intent there? And when did she kill her husband exactly? before or after Endor? How young was she married? She still was very young like twenties in later appearances like I, Jedi I think. I know Stackpole, Allston and co had hinted at the dark undercurrents of the Empire here and there, but Tavira always was an odd one out. Did they just not think about her age or was it on purpose?
     
  9. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    She was 16 when she started having an affair with Tharil Tavira and shortly after his wife died in mysterious circumstances. So, she was probably 16 or 17 when they married.
     
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  10. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    So it seems there is still no in-universe explanation for this in the new EU?

    Also, I compeltely agree with the ST making the mistake to avoid known alien species, which just makes it seem more human-dominant. Especially with the Resistance. The Jedi Council and Senate in the PT were alien-majority, the Rebel Alliance you could understand for OOU reasons due to filming constraints during the 70's/80's. I just don't get why the Resistance is so human. Especially if the Empire and FO did have an explicit human bias, that makes it even more likely that the Resistance would be much more diverse like the PT Senate/JediCouncil.

     
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  11. FS26

    FS26 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Aftermath&Thrawn said the Empire did have a human supremacist ideology at least, which was promoted by the Imperial propaganda machine. Presumedly it builds on pre-existing anti-alien bias in the Core Worlds and Republic, and was heightened by the Clone Wars.

    As for the Resistance, yeah, there really should be more non-human characters in there. I'd say it's a result of the TFA attempting to recreate the aesthetics of the original movies, which also had the Rebellion be mostly human. There have been a few more background aliens when compared to the OT, but with their budget and modern tech they really should have done more. Especially near-humans would be easy (Twi'lek, Pantoran, Umbaran, etc.) Here's hoping that Abrams improves a bit with RoS.
     
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  12. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    There's no Invisec or anything, and the anti-alienness is tempered a bit by the diversity we saw in the galaxy in the PT. Mas Amedda is the Grand Vizier, after all.

    We know from Lost Stars that the Core is generally more diverse than some human-only Rim settlements might be. It's not the case at all that there's an anti-alien bias in the Core Worlds and the Republic, because the PT gave us the exact opposite. The canon is generally trying to be consistent with that.

    But we know that regardless, there was still a great deal of de facto speciesism. The first Servants of the Empire book directly dealt with this -- where an Imperial supporter commented (presumably in ignorance) that such discrimination would not fly in the civilized Core. But we know that's not true -- Thrawn is definitely an example of that, and there's the fact that even in the new canon the Imperial military and command structure (Amedda aside) is completely human.

    So the Empire is definitely still human supremacist but we just have to account for the diversity in the prequel era that couldn't entirely be swept away. Non-humans were presumably deprived of political power, status, and representation -- and their worlds were definitely rife with exploitation by Imperial authorities, too.
     
  13. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    Didn't Jason Fry say something about how his view was that the Empire isn't openly speciest, but if you're a die hard human supremacist you're likely to be pro Empire?

    I feel like the humans are still the most populous/dominate species in the galaxy, and the Empire is still pretty xenophobic. It's just not as open about it as it was in Legends (since the early authors really upped the Nazi allusions). Legends had aliens openly barred or restricted in certain military or legal professions, in Canon it seems unofficial. Legends had Coruscant divided into official alien ghettos, in Canon Leia was able to see some aliens in Princess of Alderaan without comment. (Though I think there was mention of ghettos in Star Wars Insider story).

    And yeah I'm disappointed the ST made the Resistance mostly human (though I get that make up is expensive). And when it comes to aliens they mostly ignore OT and PT species in favor of species whose Wookieepedia stubs say "A member of this species was seen in a casino once and then never appeared ever again". It's like watching a sequel to Lord of the Rings where all the hobbits, elves, and dwarves have been replaced by cyclops or gnomes or lizardmen without comment.

    And I'm glad they're doing away with overt Imperial sexism. Always seemed like a cheap way to make the fascist dictatorship ruled by a dark sorcerer seem even more evil. And I don't think allegorical prejudices mix well with real prejudices.

    "Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because—what with trolls and dwarfs and so on—speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green."
    Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad
     
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  14. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    There's a line in Alphabet Squadron about "human primacy" when Yrica Quell is thinking about how she didn't work with many aliens in the Empire.

    Meanwhile, in Death Star, Tenn Graneet's roommate on the ISD Steel Talon was a Chagrian gunner.
     
  15. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    I think this covers it:

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Xenophobia

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Commission_for_the_Preservation_of_the_New_Order

    An idea not used for SOLO was slave Wookie stormtrooper-like soldiers. Regardless of being speciesist the Empire does not value life as they routinely imprisoned and enslaved humans and aliens alike, and would wipe out entire villages or planets of people. That was true even on a kiddie show like Rebels even. Aliens in Star Wars are also could often be xenophobic and be anti-Human, so its something that swings both ways.

    There was also a strong dislike for Droids in SW universe which went unexplained in ANH(1977) film, which we eventually learn is similar to the anti-Alien sentient, cause of the Separatist and Clone Wars.

    *There was quite few early female villains in EU Star Wars coming from the late 70s and early 80's associated or belonging the Imperial military . We had Thalassa Tarkin and Domina Tagge, Capain Zeta Traal and of course the most famous Luminya who was not only an Imperial agent but also a Dark Lady of the Sith - essentially a female Vader and proto Starkiller(from TFU).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  16. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    RE: Core diversity, I've always assumed that while the majority were originally human worlds, that the Core's prominence in galactic affairs caused many of the worlds to become more cosmopolitan and diverse over the centuries. If not the entire worlds, then definitely the major population centers. We see this in the case of Coruscant. We also see this in the case of worlds like Chandrila. See this NR-era picture of Hanna City:

    [​IMG]

    Chandrila is a human world. However, we see plenty of non-humans. Mon Calamari. Twi'lek. Jawa. Rodian. Saurian. In the heart of the Core, but very diverse.

    I suppose one could argue this due to both Coruscant and Chandrila being capitals of the Republic, but I'd argue that this would be just as common a sight in Coronet City on Corellia or Aldera on Alderaan.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  17. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Trade, commerce, and politics bring diversity. Just like in real life, port cities and political hubs ususlly (but not always) end up being diverse by their nature.

    Chandrila was once a human agricultural world. Think of it like a small WASPy New England state, with a tradition of local town halls and in-person democracy.

    Then imagine the UN HQ was moved to Vermont. What would happen to the demographics? Because it’s not only the senators who are coming along, but their staff, retainers, the NR secretariat and bureaucracy, etc.

    And then anybody who wants to do business with all of them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  18. Cracian_Thumper

    Cracian_Thumper Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Speaking as a Bostonian, I’m now imagining residents of other Core Worlds looking at Chandrilans like they’re stuck in the GFFA equivalent of the Sixties.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  19. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    You also have to consider how many of the aliens we see on Core worlds were born there or are permanent residents, and how many are just visiting on business (legal or otherwise) or are tourists.
     
  20. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Where does Chandrila get depicted extensively?
     
  21. Pons

    Pons Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2019
    A preview of the new Black Spire book is available on Amazon, featuring a small update on the Resistance's situation 4 months after TLJ:
    [​IMG]
    [SPOILER/]
     
  22. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Hey guys,

    I've been kind of distracted from things due to my books. Is there any new releases I should check out past RESISTANCE to keep myself caught up on recent events in the GFFA and the Jakku to First Order period?
     
  23. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Alphabet Squadron...Big time.
    Galaxy Edge Blackspire coming out next month.

    Resistance Reborn just released another summery-that's a October release

    Did you finish the Poe Comic that had some stuff...Though that was a year ago I think...??? Yeah.
    They released some images for the Starhawk cruiser, so that was neat.

    And.....

    I think you're good.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2019
  24. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    The Galaxy's edge comics have some info as well. Oh and @Charlemagne19 welcome back dude!!
     
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  25. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    This is from the EW article for The Mandalorian

    Moff Gideon (Giancarlo Esposito)
    Job: A regional warlord of sorts.
    Detail: The Moffs were Sector Governors of the First Galactic Empire. But now that the Empire has collapsed, the governors are on their own, and some still have armies at their behest — and this one is rather ambitious.
    https://ew.com/tv/2019/08/25/the-mandalorian-character-details/

    So in short....

    (Plays the music of "The Boys are Back in town).....The Warlords are back in town, the Warlords are back in town.....:D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2019
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