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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22 , Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Grievousdude

    Grievousdude Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    That's true I guess but the First Order make events out of it, with regular public executions according to TLJ VD, which is insane.
     
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  2. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Is it? But if Dantooine was on a hyperspace lane with a ton of traffic, then there's no way the Rebel Alliance (and the Jedi Conclave from KOTOR) could set up a base there and have it remain hidden.
     
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  3. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2013
    That's true I guess but the First Order make events out of it, with regular public executions according to TLJ VD, which is insane.[/QUOTE]
    Public executions have been a thing even in democratic societies. Its hardly that out of the ordinary. Of course, the 10000x variants of troopers have always been to sell toys and little else, but the public executions aren't that odd.
     
  4. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    It is on the route that gives access to the Myto sector from Raioballo sector and avoiding the Chopani sector's void. I wouldn't say a major hyperlane with lots of traffic and more a lesser used one that provides access, but takes longer (less a short cut than an easy way if you don't mind the long scenic route).
     
  5. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I always took it that just because it was on a lane doesn't mean anyone visited the system. There was nothing there.

    As to the Jedi Conclave, Dantooine was in the then-Unknown Regions/Wild Space. A very narrow hyperlane led to it by way of some ancient Ord outposts. It was definitely isolated in the KotoR era.
     
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  6. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Plus, Tarkin himself said that Dantooine was too remote to provide an effective demonstration.
     
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  7. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Tarkin wanted to blow up a Core World. Fondor would've been too remote for him.
     
  8. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Ok... I wanna open the floor to the following question:

    Did Mon Mothma's decentralization of NR military power save the Galaxy?

    I know folks have a strong feeling about this one way or another. I'll add, this is something that we are now arguing with the benefits of 20/20 hindsight.

    It is confirmed via an online article that 14,000 ships arrive at Exegol to save the Resistance. A fleet that is composed not just of fighters, transports, and freighters, but at minimum hundreds of captial ships. MC85's, MC80's, MC75's, various classes of Nebulon-series frigates, Bunkerbuster corvettes, etc. In short, warships that would have to have come from either surviving NRDF units OR (more likely) PSF's of NR member worlds.

    Whether intentional or not, Mon Mothma's decision ended up paying off in the end when it counted.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    14,000? Source? Sorry to be that guy but wow.


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  10. Grievousdude

    Grievousdude Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    For comparisons sake, how many ships did the Rebellion have at Endor?
     
  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Yeah, I'm sceptical. 14,000 exactly? Not 13, 782? 14, 522?
     
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  12. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003


    Ohmy.disney.com

    I tweeted about it. Click my tweet, the full quote in it is "There are over 14,000 starships in the big arrival shot of the galaxy coming to the rescue."

    So yeah... ALOT of ships. If only 5% were capital ships... that is 700 capital ships. So bigger than anything in canon.

    --Adm. Nick
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  13. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Nothing gets people moving like a galaxywide broadcast from a long dead Emperor and a planet killing star destroyer being deployed to every star system. What was Palpatine thinking with his complete lack of subtlety? At least at Crait, the galaxy could act like "It's not my problem".
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  14. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Think about him raising the fleet weeks before announcing himself, every ship already ready and deployed waiting at systems outer edges to move in at a moments notice... there would literally be nothing the galaxy could have done. Not even hope or the Resistance.

    Had the villain been female, the galaxy would be toast but because Palpatine had to brag about his penis-stardestroyer fleet being the largest ever created it ended really quick for him. That man had to compensate for something! He ozzeled himself into oblivion... (yub I just turned Ozzel into a verb for premature selfimposed failure).

    Though to add some logic to his premature call... what could rush him to not wait for it? Any explanations? Was the Resistance despite small in size close to turning the galaxies hearts? Was his time limited due to age and being very crippled? Did he still bank on his imtimidating fear imposing self whereas a past filled with incompetent idiots had weakened the galaxies impression of the enemy to the point of going for a strike at it? Think of overconfident Snoke, often mocked Hux, tantrum throwing Kylo... capable officers of the old elite like Canady and Pryde are few and most of the FO is, while well suited for a blitz strike, incapable of doing what the Empire did in the long run.
     
  15. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Well his Force Lightning was about to turn the tide of the battle... had Rey not beaten him it would have turned out very very different, no?


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  16. DurararaFTW

    DurararaFTW Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2014
    I think he wanted the battle to be raging above them when Rey was faced with the choice of striking him down or not. I guess he needed to prove to himself that his setup with Luke wasn't incorrect, he just had bad help.
     
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  17. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    If Rey hadn't broadcast Exegol's location on the holonet, Palpatine would have won. Lando and his friends would have been sitting ducks.

    Also, I suspect Palpatine's broadcast was a media power play. Palpatine only allows organizations to exist if he's secretly in control of them. He allowed the CIS to exist with him controlling Dooku, and he allowed the FO to exist with him controlling Snoke.

    Once Kylo killed Snoke and became Supreme Leader... Well to quote Palpatine in his Clone Wars days, "You have become a rival!"

    There was a chance the galaxy and the FO would start gravitating to Kylo for real. There was also the chance that Kylo would completely take the galaxy and then be a threat to Palpatine if Palpatine stayed silent. By announcing that he's alive and was with the FO all along, this ensures the FO and the rest of the unconquered galaxy remain in conflict, and places himself on what he thought was the winning side.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Premature Electrific-jagulation.

    A common problem in aging Sith Lords with no known cure.
     
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  19. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Indeed, he lured the galactic fleet into a trap for sure. But was he only at this power level and able to do it because of the Dyad powering him up? Or independant from that? He was rather weak beforehand and might not have planned that part.
     
  20. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    Getting back to Dantooine for a moment: the Resistance base in each of the 3 sequel movies has been described as either a former Rebel base or a planet scouted out by the Rebels as a potential base. So it makes sense that the First Order would be keeping an eye out on a former Rebel base.
     
  21. Supreme Leader Woke

    Supreme Leader Woke Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2017
    And we see the FO doing exactly that on Aeos Prime in the previous Resistance two-parter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  22. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    I have to go with a strong no and soft yes on this. My issue with her doing that was the scale to which it was done. She pretty much eviscerated the NR military to a token honor guard. To me that just invited an attack in the future. If the NR had had a stronger force they may have been able to counter attack at key systems/sectors and bought time for the PSFs to organize and counter attack as well.

    As for the soft yes...I do see that they were finally able to come together...but they were basically all cowering in their own systems until they were motivated.

    Which goes back to my original point....a stronger NR fleet with the ability to nationalize the PSFs in time of crisis would have stood a better chance against the FO.
     
  23. Farlion

    Farlion Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2019
    I'm going to vehemently disagree. If there had been a stronger, more centralized NRDF akin to Legends (i.e several roving Fleets) the First Order would have never been able to conquer the galaxy. The reason they were able to take the galaxy over so quickly is because there was no centralized resistance from what was left of the New Republic, and that is completely on Mon Mothma.

    Let's assume for this scenario that the canon NRDF is the legends NRDF, giving them 5 major fleets. Even if Hosnian Prime, the Senate, the Home Fleet (1st Fleet I'm guessing) gets blown up then that still leaves 4 major fleets and various PSFs. Those fleets each have their own leaderships and, while we don't know for sure, it seems reasonable they could have posed some kind of organized resistance against the First Order especially if someone like Leia were to rally the rest of the NRDF. Sure, the First Order still would have been able to conquer large parts of the galaxy in the initial chaos, but after a while they would have had to take casualties for every planet they took due to organized resistance by the NRDF.

    Personally, I think the above scenario would have gone much like Operation Barbarossa IRL. Major victories for the First Order in the opening phases due to the success of their alpha strike, but the longer the campaign went on, the more they would have eventually worn themselves out. The NR, meanwhile, had they been able to check the First Order advance, would have, much like the Soviet Union IRL, won due to their superior industry and ability to grind out a war of attrition, something the First Order even in the Sequel Trilogy was unable to do, seeing how badly they needed Palpatine's fleet.

    Yes, those PSFs Mon Mothma subsidized eventually defeated the First/Final Order. But if there had been a stronger NRDF, I don't think it would have ever gotten that far.
     
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  24. DarthCane

    DarthCane Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Not just that, but the demilitarized NR turned a near-complete blind eye to the First Order, as exemplified by a prewar quote from Major Lonno Derso of the NRDF in Before the Awakening:

    "The First Order is a remnant born of a war thirty years gone. Yes, they persist, yes, they continue, but by all accounts they do so barely. They are, at best, an ill-organized, poorly equipped, and badly funded group of loyalists who use propaganda and fear to inflate their strength and their importance."

    Either the NRDF had criminally pared down its intelligence and threat assessment capabilities, or they were blinkered enough to think an outfit with a military-industrial complex sufficient to produce new-design warships rivaling the heaviest units of the NRDF was not a serious threat. Either way, it's a military force that regardless of its disposition is set to take a hard kick in the choobies when the other guy hits first - unless that first hit is a star system-destroying superweapon that can shoot across the galaxy aimed right at your political and military center of power, in which case it's a decapitation strike that lets the First Order go nuts for about a year even after taking crushingly unequal losses from the Resistance at Starkiller Base and Crait. Those 14,000 ships showing up at Exegol would have done a lot of good if they were under a unified command and deployed for war before the Hosnian System was obliterated. Instead, they had to be rallied at the last minute for a Hail Mary strike that almost didn't work.
     
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  25. Senator Wan

    Senator Wan Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2017
    The reason the Republic wasn’t an active player in the war in my eyes wasn’t necessarily because there weren’t enough ships. Even without the bulk of the Home Fleet, there were still numerous NRSF task forces throughout the galaxy that could have posed a major threat to the First Order if joined together. The big thing about the Hosnian attack was that it crippled the Republic’s forces by taking out its leadership. That’s why all the major systems are too afraid to take a stand until the battle at Exogol. If they had confidence in their military leadership and high-ranking/profile officers at the head of the war effort, I’m sure the loyal systems of the Republic would have retaliated much earlier than what we saw. The lack of expertise in combat, coupled with the fear of being the next Hosnian Cataclysm, paired with the loftiness that comes from being at peace for three decades gives us a galaxy that doesn’t know how to approach a cold war gone hot which leads to a year long period where the galaxy gradually comes under near-total First Order control.


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