Lit From Mustafar to Scarif -A State of the Galaxy Thread

Eh, kinda same and also I wouldn't want to steal your idea.

Naboo- Genosis has always been over looked largely, even in legends.

 

Plus, Queen's Hope is gonna be set during the Clone Wars, not between TPM and AotC, so it wouldn't really be relevant to a thread covering that timespan.

 

The interesting thing about Bad Batch will be to what extent it dovetails with the other stuff in this approximate period -- thinking mostly the Vader comic and Fallen Order (particularly that latter which also includes Saw, already in his Whittaker form not too many years later). No crime if it just tells its own stories, of course, but I would hope it stays pretty consistent. Otherwise we start to get right back into the uneasy relationship between TCW and its contemporaneous Legends stuff, just pre-reboot.

 

I'm not über worried about it to be honest.

The thing I liked about Clone Wars Season 7 was just HOW MUCH it was pulling from all the NuCanon material in terms of the small things and the tonal and thematically stuff. And that was the first and ONLY Star Wars show that was Canon.

Plus Filoni is a lot more connected to what's going on with the wider Star Wars universe then George who just did what he wanted.

Plus I think we see a few things from Jedi Fallen Order in terms of planets.

Granted I don't expect the Bad Batch to be on Mustafa when Vader is going toe to toe with Lord Momin but...I do think they'll pull from the world that has been building up when it comes to the Dark Times of Canon.

Granted i'm sure a few inconsittinces might happened since the scripts were written two years beforehand but I doubt it will be anything massive.

 

I do want the finale of the season to end on a sad note, with this being the dark times before the Rebellion forms.

Such as an Inquisitor sent after the bad batch, and at least one of them is killed in the finale.

In fact while I want this series to go several seasons, I don't want the Bad Batch to survive to be apart of the Rebellion. If that is the case, there is still a good gap of time between this series and Rebels.

Do we know when Phase 2 clone armor, and other Republic era tech was phased out? I know by the time of First Order (5 years after RoTS) we have regular stormtroopers and Imperial ships (though I know throughout the Imperial era, some Republic era ships were still used, just a small minority).

For this series being set so close to RoTS, I think most of this series should stick to Republic era tech now Imperial. It helps to set this series apart visually compared to Rebels. Perhaps in the final season we see the final transition to common Imperial era tech.

 

If this show like goes one year each season i could see 5 seasons pass the 5 years of the empire and we see more of the rebels look of imperials in it's third season. Or if they gonig to go the clone wars route we could get 8 seasons.

 

Can we talk timeline and the Liberation of Lothal? Someone on Wookieepedia decided that there’s an arbitrary cut-off between what counts as 1 BBY and what is 0 BBY during the Liberation, due to wording of the Women of the Galaxy book. It's a great book, but it's not exactly a canon reference book in the way that a Visual Dictionary is, for example.

As it stands, according to the Wook, the only media to occur in 1 BBY are the first eight episodes of Rebels Season 4, then the rest are 0 BBY.

The paragraph in question, which make it onto a number of pages:
The epilogue of the Star Wars Rebels episode "Family Reunion – and Farewell" occurs after the end of the Galactic Civil War, which Star Wars: Galactic Atlas dates to 5 ABY, while Ultimate Star Wars, New Editionestablishes that the Liberation of Lothal occurs prior to the Battle of Yavin, which marks the end of 0 BBY, according to Galactic Atlas. Lothal's liberation takes place between the Star Wars Rebels episode "Wolves and a Door" and the "Family Reunion – and Farewell" epilogue, between which Star Wars: Women of the Galaxy establishes there is a five-year gap. Therefore, in order to maintain the aforementioned five-year gap that ends no earlier than 5 ABY while still preceding the Battle of Yavin, the Liberation of Lothal must take place in 0 BBY. As the episode "Rebel Assault" takes place prior to "Wolves and a Door," it must also take place around the same year.

The show doesn't seem to set the events on Mandalore of 4x01 and 4x02 all that long after the Battle of Atollon (which is 2 BBY). Meanwhile, the whole Lothal liberation campaign is presented as a matter of around two-three weeks at most.

Since the appearance of Ahsoka in The Mandalorian, there's also been the suggestion that Ahsoka's return to Lothal to rejoin Sabine may even take place after she meets Din and Grogu on Corvus, so the "5 years gap between the liberation of Lothal and the Rebels epilogue" doesn't seem to be canonically set in stone. I don't remember seeing anything stating approximately how long the gap between the destruction of the Lothal dome and Scarif/Yavin, so that appears to have been kept as vague as possible for storytelling reasons.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that all of Rebels Season 4 takes place in 1 BBY. 0 BBY is a strange sort of year - is it a whole year prior to Yavin, or just the immediate build up? Because if it's the former, that could put Luke and Leia closer to 20 than 19 by the time of A New Hope.

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Speaking of the liberation of Lothal, I've put together a day-by-day timeline of the events as presented in Rebels:

Day 1
Rebels arrive on Lothal on the Broken Horn. Vizago captured. Pursuit through sewers. Rescue by Ryder Azadi at nightfall. (The Occupation)

Day 2
Theft of TIE Defender from Imperial airfield. TIE data recorder removed and hyperdrive hidden. Ezra and Sabine rescued by Lothwolf. (Flight of the Defender)

Day 3
TIE Defender data recorder delivered to rebels at dawn. (Flight of the Defender)
Rebels collect TIE Defender hyperdrive. Thrawn despatches Rukh to hunt down the rebels. Hyperdrive delivered to rebel U-Wing. Rebel U-Wing escapes from Lothal to Yavin 4. Imperials besiege rebel camp, rebels escape across the planet with Lothwolves. (Kindred)

Day 4
Rebels in the cave detect a Mining Guild crawler. Rebel Command on Yavin 4 analyses the TIE Defender Elite schematics, while Hera calls for a strike on the Lothal factory. Rebels hijack the crawler. Vizago and slaves rescued. Rebels contact Yavin 4. Rebel Command green-lights the attack on Lothal. (Crawler Commandeers)

Day 5
Rebel starfighters assault Lothal at nightfall, but are destroyed by the Imperial blockade. Vult Skerris killed. Hera crash lands within the capital. Hera, Chopper and Mart pursued by Rukh. Hera is captured. (Rebel Assault)

Day 6
Mart and Chopper join Kanan at dawn outside the city. (Rebel Assault)
Hera is tortured by Governor Pryce. The Rebels build gliders to infiltrate the city. The rebels strike at sunset. Thrawn is summoned to Coruscant. Hera is rescued at night. Imperial base put on lockdown. Pryce destroys the Imperial fuel depot, killing Kanan in the process as he protects the others. (Jedi Knight)

Day 7
The rebels return to the camp at first light. Pryce requires all citizens to attend a parade to celebrate their victory. The parade begins at sunset. Ezra disappears with Lothwolves. Zeb and Sabine attack an Imperial patrol at twilight and fight Rukh. The wolves alert Ezra to the excavations at the Jedi Temple. (Dume)

Day 8
Zeb, Sabine and Ezra return to the camp at dawn. (Dume)
The rebels head for the Jedi Temple with the Lothwolves, arriving in the evening. Ezra and Sabine infiltrate the dig and overhear Minister Hydan discussing the site with Emperor Palpatine. Ezra enters the Temple. (Wolves and a Door)
Inside the Temple, Ezra has entered the World Between Worlds. He saves Ahsoka from Darth Vader on Malachor but cannot save Kanan. Palpatine attempts to break into the World Between Worlds but fails. Ezra escapes, Ahsoka returns to Malachor, and the temple is sealed, collapsing. (A World Between Worlds)

Day 9
Daybreak, and the rebels are at the site of the former temple, which has disappeared. (A World Between Worlds)


Hera leaves Lothal for Yavin 4?
Hera on Yavin 4 for at least a day?
Hera, Rex and Kallus head from Yavin 4 to Seelos?

The Ghost collects Wolffe, Gregor, Ketsu, Hondo and Melch from Seelos, a day late.
Hera contacts the rebel camp. Ezra wants immediate action after a vision of Thrawn returning to Lothal.
Ryder alerts Pryce to the camp location to lure her into a trap. The Empire attacks the camp as the Ghost arrives in the system before hitching a ride through the Imperial blockade on the back of a cargo freighter. The rebels are outnumbered and captured by Rukh’s forces. The Ghost arrived and with the help of the Lothwolves, Pryce is captured. That evening, the rebels set up a new camp with three captured gunships. (A Fool’s Hope)

Next morning, Pryce is brought to the camp. Using two stolen gunships, the rebels head for the capital with the captive Pryce, landing aboard the Imperial Dome. They take over the control centre. Back at the rebel camp, Rukh attacks Vizago, Wolffe and Mart, but they are rescued by the Lothwolf. Rukh escapes in the remaining gunship, informing Thrawn, who is en route, of Pryce’s capture and the rebel incursion. Kallus puts in place Protocol 13. Thrawn arrives with the Chimaera before the dome can be launched. Thrawn begins to open fire on the city after Rukh disabled the city’s shields and Ezra surrenders, being summoned to the Chimaera by Thrawn. Ezra leaves the rebels and heads to Thrawn. Ezra is taken before a hologram of Palpatine.
The Lothwolf brings the rebels at the camp arrive. Mart pilots the Ghost away from Lothal on a special mission given to him by Ezra, to send out a signal on Frequency Zero. The rebels head for the Dome’s power generator to restore power to the city shields.
Palpatine has had a section of the Lothal Jedi Temple excavated and moved aboard the Chimaera and attempts to get Ezra to open the portal to the World Between Worlds. Ezra destroys the portal, angering Palpatine, and engages Palpatine’s royal guards.
In the generator room, Melch is shot and Zeb engages Rukh in combat. Gregor is mortally wounded in the crossfire while Kallus tries to get the shield up. Zeb bests Rukh, who is killed as the generator is started up, protecting the city as Thrawn’s bombardment hits the city shields.
Ezra confronts Thrawn as the Ghost returns with a pod of purrgil, having destroyed the Imperial blockade.
The purrgil destroy the Empire’s vessels and disappear into hyperspace with the Chimaera.
The rebels prime the Dome’s thrusters and escape aboard the Ghost, having set the Dome’s self-destruct. The rebels flee and the Dome is destroyed over the sea. The citizens of Lothal celebrate their freedom. (Family Reunion — and Farewell)

This puts the campaign at around two weeks from The Occupation to Family Reunion - and Farewell.

All thoughts welcome!

 

I've always figured that the end of Season Four happened several months (six to eight) before Rogue One, with the idea the Emperor was waiting for the Death Star to finish and Lothal got moved to third or fourth on the list after Alderaan, Chandrila and wherever the rebel base was.

 

I think like all seasons Rebels takess a year each and we were probaly a month away from Rogue One as Filnoi says soon after the death star happens and all eyes on Luke.

 

Also Zahn's said Thrawn: Treason is several months before Rogue One, and that's set in the week leading up to the Liberation of Lothal. If ANH's still in the equivalent of May 1977, Rebels presumably ends around February.

 

Yeah 3 months works well, the death star is soon to be finnished and the empire just don't want to take over again when they can just blow it up.

 

The Early Empire days has always been a mess because there is no guide for creatives as to how to imagine the galaxy in this time.

There have been stories where Palpy just snaps his fingers, and the ISDs are everywhere, the stormies/stormy armor has swapped out the Clones, and the galaxy, who's leaders were cheering the Empire, are immediately bristling at the widespread oppression they apparently didn't notice the day before.

What we need is a reference book...kind of like a story bible...so authors can know how the transition happened.

Example: Stormies...spell it out..."The Stormtrooper program began by Imperial decree in 19ABY...but it took until 15ABY for the entire GAR clonetrooper force to be reorganized/re-equipped/phased out to meet the new Stormtrooper model."

Problem with this...I am sure there is already material that would contradict even that...so the time for this kind of structure was...oh...9 years ago when they reset the canon.

But I am sure they don't want to suppress a writer's creativity...which is why those brave and creative writers always run to these classic Star Wars tropes (ex. Star Destroyers, Stormies and TIEs) as soon as they are told "you are doing a story during the Imperial era"...because that means X, the whole era, it must mean X.

 

Although it doesn't bother me quite as much as it may bother you, I pretty much agree with the content of what you're saying here. There was a bit of a problem specifically caused when one of the Vader comics had to be moved on the timeline after publication, but even outside that, the tech is really inconsistent. Generally speaking I think the onscreen stuff has felt right, but between the comics and Fallen Order, it kind of feels what should have been a gradual progression is now rendered as "all OT Imperial designs were invented and deployed immediately, just not everywhere. It's... possible, but it's not the intent of either Lucas or the general vibe of LFL designers to this day, but that's probably because they're a lot more focused on the worldbuilding that comic artists for hire are.

I'm more forgiving of the attitudes toward the Empire, because that could vary wildly depending on who you talk to, much as in, like, the US today.

I think we're going to have minor overwritten wobbles from existing stories as Bad Batch sets the more definitive tone for the early part of this period, as Rebels and R1 laid down the vibe for the latter part.

 

I mean that's why Bad Batch is so exciting.

It's our first REAL DEFINITIVE Early DarkTimes story.

And if we're being honest the early Dark Times era in canon is still relatively unexplored compared to Mid to Late Dark Times Era.

 

Its nice chance of pace when the bad guys of the Empire are not yet the traditional stormtroopers, and we got things like V wings, and still a lot of Imperial Venators.

Also Bad Batch can be our first canon example of Early Empire vs Separatist Holdouts.

I wonder if we will see Purge Troopers in Bad Batch (the clone ones in the comics, or the first regular human ones, like in Fallen Order).

With more Jedi purge survivors existing during Bad Batch compared to Rebels, I would not be surprised if we eventually see a Jedi vs Inquisitor/Vader duel.

 

Oooh makes you wonder if will see any familiar faces?

 

I've watched my kids play through Fallen Order and I never quite figured out those Purge Troopers, other than that they're not clones like the comic ones. There are way too many of them just hanging around waiting for Jedi, but I accept that as a game mechanic thing... the weird part to me was that at least some of them seem totally unhinged in a kind of BDSM way.

 

Yeah, I'd like fewer stories portraying the Republic/Empire as going from good to bad like flipping a switch and more showing why it would have had so much buy-in from the population at first. Like, there was a moment early on in the old canon Hand of Judgment books where one of the stormtroopers remembers what it was like when the Empire first came to his planet, and he and everyone he knew just loved them because it meant the pirates who'd been plaguing the planet were finally chased away. More of that, please.

Sort of like how a lot of people who hated the Taliban by 2001 loved them in 1996 when they took over. It meant finally having some law and order after years of endless gang wars between the various warlords.

 

I've compiled my own rough Rebels timeline, on that note, incorporating Leia: Princess of Alderaan into the mix, as best as I can. We know the book kicks off with Leia's 16th birthday, and seems to be prior to 'A Princess on Lothal' too, so that takes us potentially to 2.8 BBY to begin with, assuming Essential Atlas dates and birthdays remain the same. Perhaps two months later she visits Lothal, meaning a fairly large time gap happens during season 1, and again early in season 2, maybe. We know some months pass between events on Malachor and the mission to Reklam station, so that's potentially a jump to 2.4 or 2.3 BBY - or even sooner. And then season 3 takes place over a fairly brief period, I guess.
Mind you, in my own rewatches, I tend to alter the viewing order I watch S3 in, placing 'Secret Cargo' prior to 'Ghosts of Geonosis', plus maybe shunting the TIE Defender reveal episode further back a little. The rest of the series continues up to Zero Hour, as normal.
Season 4 obviously jumps ahead quite a way, maybe a year, to a little under 1 BBY, and continues for a few months, perhaps - so ending around six months pre Yavin? We also know Saw Gerrera was nosing around Jakku for a good three months before his death, per the Guardians of the Whills junior novel.

 

You know...The whole chipped Clones thing in Canon works because i think people don't seem to get that the Clones in canon are VERY different from their legends counterparts.

TCW tries to show a clone army that grows to become more independent more free thinking and have strong bonds with their Jedi Generals.

I honestly feel that if their were no chips and Order 66 happened, their would be more Clones who didn't follow orders than Clones who did because of just how the Clones developed throughout that series.

So i think seeing the clones in the context of the current canon (And TCW to be honest) the chip things makes sense.

 

The Clones in canon are treated like normal people who just happen to be identical.

Legends treated them as more ruthless and cold. As you would expect from people raised for war since birth.

In legends they were cloned human SOLDIERS while in canon they are cloned HUMAN soldiers.

In legends a big deal is made of how after the Empire is declared, nothing really changes. While canon kinda implied there were massive changes (at least the early stuff did, if I recall correctly the Ashoka novel had times 1 year into the empire), which I like a lot less.

 

I feel like people over blow the condensed timeline thing A LOT to be honset and it's silly.


The Clone Wars was a conflict that devistated the entire galaxy set up a bajillion threads of Star Wars and yet ...It only last three years...no one complains about that.

Yet the fall of the empire in a a year thing is something everyone complains about still despite it making a lot of sense these days.

 

The main problem I have with the Republic -> Empire situation is not the length of time but the transition.

Personally, I prefer the idea that most or many of the Empire's policies were already in place towards the end of the Clone Wars, to the point that the Empire effectively existed long before the Jedi had been wiped out. It adds an element of tragedy I like.

While length of time for the Clone Wars is still a problem for me (and others I've spoken to, so I wouldn't say "nobody" complains), it's far less important than how exactly the transition takes place. One example I resonate with is the abandonment of the clone army so quickly after the establishment of the Empire. I don't think that a faceless army of genetically-engineered soldiers with mind-control chips should be dropped in a year after Order 66 and then replaced with conscripts, especially since the 2008 show has an episode about ordering another batch of clones in the middle of the war. I assume that the original intent for that episode was that the Senate was unwittingly contributing to the future ranks of the stormtroopers.

 

This one appeals, but I don't think it's particularly difficult to reconcile with a more overt Empire post-ROTS either.

Pre-ROTS, the Imperial attitudes and approach had been quietly incubated in the mass populace, but it still had to be relatively covert and cloaked in respectable notions, but post-ROTS? No need for that anymore!

 

I’m really looking forward to Andor and the next Fallen Order game, I would also really like to see more of Enfys Nest and her bad of rebels.

I don’t really find the Bad Batch characters interesting at all, but the animation looks great and I am curious to see more from those very early dark times years