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Fun and Games Forum Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Coruscant, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. Coruscant

    Coruscant Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    It seems the JCC is at a crossroads. Some users believe the JCC should skew more closely to custom and unwritten rules, while other users say the rules are the rules.

    What is the role of custom in the JCC? How significant is it?

    Is it time for some customs to be codified into JCC rules?

    Should we try to make a more perfect JCC or leave it alone?

    Let’s communicate!

    I’ll tag a few people to get the discussion started:

    @harpua @Princess_Tina @MotivateR5D4 @SuperWatto @3sm1r @starfish

    Let’s try to see where different people are coming from and understand each other’s concerns
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
    3sm1r likes this.
  2. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    The tags need to have meaning, if not obvious - ie. Gaming is, but people may not pick up on the difference between Community and Senate.
     
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  3. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    I'm gonna quote this here
    I think that's a great stating point. I have gone out of my way in the last months to avoid these four individuals. I really have no interest in interacting with them in any way, given how much of a hard time they've given me over trivial things. It's not like they couldn't have put me on ignore months ago.

    They're not really objecting to people abiding by the rules or not, and notice at least one of them trolled a game thread until a mod had to warn that person they'd be banned if they continued trolling.

    So this is really more about a strong personal dislike of a person (or persons) than it is anything else. And then trying to make a huge deal out of things that they could just as easily ignore.

    They themselves disregard the existing rules when they want to give someone a hard time. Then they demand the rules be changed in a way that obviously means to target the person or persons they dislike personally.

    I've seen the forums change over the last 20 years and always made my best effort to abide by all existing rules. If the rules change again, obviously I will comply but this small group of 3-4 people will keep looking for things to object to whenever they have a personal dislike against a person, whether that person is new to the forums or has been here almost since the beginning.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  4. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    The Twitter feed clearinghouse approach to posting in the JCC seems like such a waste of everyone's time and of the qualities that make discussion forums different from Twitter feeds, but we've discussed this before, with no results. We unstickied the Star Wars thread, so maybe progress is still possible? I barely care, but it's a slow day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  5. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    I just want to do some very sincere ass kissing to the mods, you guys do a fantastic job of making this an accommodating forum for discussions on all sorts of topics, much better than other corners of the internet. It's hard to draw the line between trolling and adversarial discussion, it requires familiarity with posting habits. You're all working for free (I think?) and we appreciate it, I trust you guys make fair decisions.

    I can understand why people get annoyed with excessive Twitter posts, and I admit I've posted a lot of Twitter stuff myself. I'll try harder to make sure it's in the interest of building discussion.
     
  6. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I'm mostly fine with the current state.
    If I had to nitpick, I'd probably make the following changes
    -- all tweets, pictures and gifs in the senate threads should be under spoiler tag.
    -- if someone mocks a person for being homeless, just ban them immediately, even just for few days, to stress that a similar behavior won't be tolerated. It doesn't matter whether they apologize.
    -- more generally, personal attacks in the Senate threads should be handled more severely.
    -- inter-poster drama in the Senate threads should also be modded imo.
     
  7. Boba_Fett_2001

    Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2000
    Hmm looks like PG already addressed this?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  8. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    that's all it will take. Eliminate drive by tweet and image posts. A simple solution for a simple problem.
     
  9. Coruscant

    Coruscant Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Hi, Tina

    I had a few thoughts about your points in the other thread before the discussion was closed down there.

    You’ve alluded to a “JCC Golden Age” that some posters want to return to, but I don’t think anyone believes in a mythical Golden Age of the past.

    In fact, the JCC has been better than ever right now. Some users want to keep it that way, or make it even better.

    Secondly, I made this thread for two reasons—to continue the discussion from the other thread and also to communicate with each other—to listen—and that goes for everyone. I don’t just mean listening in order to comprehend one’s points and come up with a response of rejoinders and parries. I mean, active listening with empathy to really understand where the other guy is coming from.

    Lastly, about the ignore button. I don’t use it myself. I’ve only ever ignored one user and that was temporarily so I could be a better game host at the time, even though that user was actually right (as usual—it’s Boba Nekhbet).

    But what I didn’t know about ignore until very recently is that it still tells you in the threads that there has been ignored content and, amazingly, it provides you with a tantalizing little button to unveil that content! Doesn’t this go against the whole point of an ignore button?

    So I don’t think the ignore button is as viable a solution as thought.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  10. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Again, this is not about you, personally, it's your posting habits. I don't know you personally. You literally post around the clock-it never stops, and the way you barge into discussions with twitter **** post rubs people the wrong way. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that people limit **** posts to the **** posting thread. You do not discuss, you spam.
    You haven't been here 20 years. You left for several years. Don't front.
     
  11. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    The "golden age" was meant in a more or less a facetious way, I'm not sure what would constitute a "golden era".

    Absolutely not true, there have been many discussions, including one last night, that consisted of nothing but written messages, and with substantial attention and reasoning in response to the ideas being exposed. I'm referring in particular to the one with obi-arin-kenobi.

    You absolutely do not know who has kept lurking silently for years at a time without being logged in. Don't try to come across as an all-seeing person.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  12. Boba_Fett_2001

    Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2000
    Sorry Harps but I feel the need to interject here. You posted in Tina's interview thread saying you didn't believe any of it, said that there were red flags, and likened her to ASG. And I see you just made the comparison again in the election thread, which frankly I don't see at all. You say it's just about her posting habits but the impression I'm getting is that it's not just that.
     
  13. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I don't see how this is true at all. The point of an "Ignore" button is for a user not to be exposed to content from a user that they find problematic/offensive/troubling/etc. It was never meant to be a customization tool that gives you exactly the forum experience you want. At the end of the day, other people still post here, and you have to be willing to accept that they might have different ideas or desires for their forum participation than you do. If you can't, why be on a forum at all?

    It is incredibly lame to feel tempted to look at content you know you will dislike, look at it, and then blame the system for your own choice. We're all adults here. If someone doesn't have enough impulse control to avoid looking at something, it's their own fault. And if the mere knowledge that someone they dislike has posted upsets or infuriates them, that's really a species of narcissism beyond helping.
     
  14. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that, I felt hounded out of that thread and didn't check back again after Jello asked everyone to cool it... And I had just said very nice things about her and sj in the interview.

    Then there's the time she accused me of being a meth head, the endless times she's referred to me as "Tino" (even in her interview) and all kinds of silly and unsubstantiated accusations.

    All of this, despite the fact that I've done my best to avoid her as much as possible in the last few months! And I'm not even the person who made inappropriate remarks about her personal life, so I'm definitely at a loss to explain the constant hostility.

    And when I asked her to please not derail the elections thread, she said something about nobody mini-modding her. Why is it too much to ask not to take a thread wildly off-topic? Why are the rules always having to be bent to accommodate what harpua wants or doesn't want?

    In one of the recent discussions, harpua went on about having sympathy towards people who've undergone mental health trouble, yet she shows absolutely no sympathy towards someone who has suffered some of the same things she has suffered.

    The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  15. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    The one day I wake up late due to a headache is the one day all this goes down. Figures....

    As the guy who started the ****posting thread, I saw that there was an excessive amount of memes, funny tweets, and inane comments in the general politics threads. Now, I don't believe that they should be banned entirely. Sometimes, there are things so ridiculous that the best response is in gif form. Sometimes tweets say something profound (it's a rare occasion, but it happens). The point of the ****posting thread was to post funny (read, actually fully) memes, tweets, and things like that. I hang out in a lot of ****posting spaces, primarily leftist ones. I like that there's a place here I can share them. That said, you need to actually post ****posts in the ****posting thread. @Princess_Tina I'm sorry to say, but you mistake posting unhumorous observations as funny. @Jabba-wocky has never posted a ****post on purpose and I don't think he ever will, so I've given up on that front. @robert martins you have no audience here when you post right wing "memes."
     
  16. Coruscant

    Coruscant Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Wocky

    But isn’t it true that the ignore button is not so much choosing to ignore one user one time, so much as having to make that choice repeatedly, over and over, because of “Show ignored content?”

    It takes what should be one simple choice made in a moment of strength and judiciousness and turns it into a series of potentially hundreds of choices subject to passing moments of less strong conviction.

    I don’t know, though, I’m not an ignore button user.

    Also, we don’t know why people ignore the users they do. What if they want to ignore an abuser? To say they might show ignored content because of narcissism is highly presumptive
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  17. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I just think a lot of longtime posters essentially view the JCC as their own personal forum. A lot of you say well we've known each other for a long time, some of us know each other in real life. And that's fine. But that still shouldn't grant them any more say in how the JCC functions than anybody else. Sure, there is a general culture among many longtime users. But there's a real possessiveness felt among them as well, which I don't think is right. This is a publicly available forum that anybody anywhere can make an account on and start posting at anytime, and it just seems the longtime posters have completely lost sight of that.

    I do agree with @Princess_Tina that people only seem to get upset about certain things based on who is doing it. And even if new rules come into play, the mob is still only going to selectively enforce them.

    As far as tags go, maybe those ought to be renamed. Maybe an actual "Serious" tag should be introduced. Instead of "Senate", which in itself makes it seem not that serious just by way of calling it that. I refer back to how a lot of longtime posters see that and hold to that, but it really doesn't have the same meaning that it once might have.

    As far as tweets go, we're in crazy times right now. I hadn't really participated much in any of the social or political threads during my years as a member of these boards up until recently. My rule was that I came here to discuss Star Wars and goof off, and that's exactly what I'm going to do. It was only recently, given everything going on, that I started weighing in on the more serious threads. I can't comment on how pervasive the tweets might have been up until a few months ago. But what I can say is we are in absolutely batzit crazy times right now. And tweets do serve a purpose in providing up to date news and commentary in an efficient manner. It's really not that drastically different from posting a link to an article, a summary of that article, and then your own commentary on that article. A tweet lets all of that happen much more succinctly. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And sure, there might be an excess of them nowadays. But I truly think it is just in keeping with the times right now. And there should be an understanding of that. And maybe once things simmer down a bit, we can revisit possibly bringing them down a notch. And when that discussion takes place, perhaps also requesting that the mods take a more active approach in slowing down the tweeting if it appears to become excessive.

    But, again, let's also keep things on an equal basis. Being a longtime poster here doesn't grant somebody any more leverage on other posters than anybody else.
     
  18. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Vivec you are hugely hypocritical on this issue. Less than 48 hours ago, when Tina edited a post to bring it into compliance with thread rules, you posted to complain about the edit. You can't complain about the rules and also complain when people try to follow them. And that raises a broader point: very little of this seems to be about rules at all. It's a few people carping loudly about a poster they dislike. Besides being incredibly petty, it's become disruptive to the whole forums.
     
  19. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    One of the problems, as I've noticed, is that there are some former mods (you can tell by their red titles) who feel enormously entitled to tell regular users not to do things they don't personally like.

    And that's the first thing that rubbed me the wrong way, because as a long-time user, I had had this idea ingrained upon me that you aren't supposed to police the forums if you aren't a current mod. The rules as currently written state you don't confront anyone directly, just bring it to a mod's attention and let them deal with it.

    But people like Vivec and harpua are constantly berating others for what they do or fail to do. And they both seem to like (imho) to sound as confrontational as possible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  20. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    As with the last time this all came up, I get the distinct impression that this is annoyance about a single user masquerading as a policy issue. Can someone please tell me how this isn't the case?
     
  21. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Yea, it's almost like they carved out this level of user that isn't quite a mod, but is above being a regular user. I also hear you about the mini modding that other longtime posters do as well. That all goes in line with a lot of what I wrote above, and your point as well.

    It isn't.
     
  22. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Doing something about posting tweets in the Senate thread is a small but important improvement that can be made, and it has nothing to do with the drama about Tina.
     
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  23. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I would say insofar as the same group of users are allowed to keep bringing the same, transparently insincere "policy concern" as a means of targeting one person, it starts to have implications for how this board interprets and enforces its harassment policies.
     
  24. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes, I liked your suggestion about spoiler tags for images and tweets in order to avoid taking up space. That's a helpful suggestion.
     
  25. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    yes limiting the tweets and image posts in the following general elections thread I think is a good step.
     
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