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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit GENERAL QUESTION THREAD (What to read? Where to start? What's canon? What's not? Duros, etc.)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Master_Keralys, Jun 4, 2008.

  1. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Yeah, the novelization does add quite a bit to the movie, so it's worth checking out. If got the time, read Labyrinth of Evil as well, which gives a bit more context to the ROTS novelization.
     
  2. The Emotional Jedi

    The Emotional Jedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 18, 2021
    I have read Labyrinth of Evil, and even some pieces of the novelization. I generally don't care about the novelizations of the movies though, because I prefer to watch the movies directly.
     
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  3. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Question stolen from the CCC, but I am curious to
    in Cannon, it became known during bloodlines that Leia was Vader’s daughter,

    In Legends, when did it become well known she was Vader's daughter? By The Black Fleet Crisis, it was known as some of her political enemies, including the Yevetha, used that fact against her
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 26X Wacky Wednesday/23x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I believe it was around Planet of Twilight that she'd finally reconciled with her nature as Vader's daughter - that could have been the moment it was fully revealed to the public.

    Higher imperial officials seem to know long before - as early as the Jedi Prince novels, Trioculus is taunting her with it:

    "This day has brought me three victories, Princess," Trioculus declared. "First, I was freed from the carbonite. Then Zorba paid for the injustice he did to me - and to you. And lastly, I have taught you to be grateful to me."
    "Grateful to you?" Leia exclaimed. "Guess again. I'll be grateful to the Alliance when they assassinate you, Trioculus."
    "I know you don't mean that, Leia," he replied. "I destroyed Zorba and you smiled. I saw you."
    "Did you now? I sincerely doubt it. I have nothing to smile about as long as I'm prisoner on this Moffship."
    "The Dark Side is strong in you, Leia!" Trioculus continued. "It has control of you now; I'm certain of it. You shall marry me, and together we shall celebrate Zorba's death!"
    "Dream on, Trioculus," Princess Leia said with clenched teeth. "I'm a Jedi, protected from the evil power of the Dark Side and the likes of you."
    "Your father was once a Jedi too - a Jedi Knight named Anakin Skywalker. But he turned to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader. Being a Jedi didn't protect him from the powers of darkness."
    "I'd rather die before I'd marry a lying, ruthless Imperial tyrant."



    and other members of his faction seem to know as well:


    "I hope Trioculus isn’t making a mistake," Grand Moff Muzzer whispered to Grand Moff Thistleborn. "It’s a bit too soon to know for sure whether Leia has embraced the Dark Side."
    "He knows exactly what he’s doing," Thistleborn replied with a nod. "Consider how loyal Darth Vader was to Emperor Palpatine and the Dark Side. We must never forget that the Princess is Vader’s daughter - his flesh and blood."
    "Yes, but so is Luke Skywalker," Grand Moff Muzzer replied softly. "And a more nettlesome troublemaker than Skywalker we’ll never find."



    In Marvel SW, a point was made of how Luke and Leia were, at least initially, keeping their heritage a secret:


    Leia: "Luke ... have you told anyone else about this?"
    Luke: "How could I, without explaining to them why it upsets me so ... who Darth Vader really was, and what he was to the pair of us. We haven't even told anyone besides Han about our being brother and sister, because we didn't want people to begin asking questions about our parentage."
    Leia: "And the truth would make us so unpopular. No man was ever more hated than Darth Vader, unless it was the Emperor himself..."
    Luke: "He was the Dark Lord ... the one who always did the Emperor's dirty work for him..."
    Leia: "But Luke, even if most people choose to forget it, he turned back to good at the end, and helped topple the Emperor ... for you! You don't need to feel ashamed of him."
    Luke: "I don't. But in my dreams, I'm afraid of him."


    but it's possible that this didn't last very long.
     
  5. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    The plot about how Leia personally dealt with the revelation about Vader, and the political explosion in Bloodlines, was one of the things the new canon handled SO well. It wasn't just that she dealt with in on the side. They actually had fun with it through the whole political fiasco.
     
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  6. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    It’s one of the best canon novels. Maybe even the best. There are about 6 or so that may be tied for that place
     
  7. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Are the Bimm who appear in Heir to the Empire the near-human species or the furred species?
     
  8. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    IIRC (I didn't actually check Wookieepedia here) that's literally where there being two species of Bimms comes from: in the novel they're clearly furred, but in the comic adaptation they're near-human.
     
  9. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Does Thrawn (2017 novel) talk about the difference between Wild Space and the Unknown Regions?
     
  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    What was the first c-canon mention of "Mandalore" or "Mandalorian(s)"?
     
  11. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Yes...

    The novel mentions them being half-furred, with practically no other physical description. West End Games' Heir to the Empire Sourcebook repeats that half-furred description, but depicts them visually as near-human, with a propensity for beards but not any particular furriness. The comic depicts them as the fully-furred nonhuman beings. It seems, in reconciling the two widely divergent visual accounts of the species by creating two species, neither of which lined up with the text, the text became true in a different way - the Bimms are "half-furred," in that half the Bimms have fur and the other half don't.
     
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  12. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    I feel like the Decipher CCG card identifying the distinctly not-furred and clean-shaven Rycar Ryjerd as a Bimm must have had something to do with this as well. That card was part of the earliest sets that dropped right around the same time as the first couple issues of the HTTE comic, if I remember correctly.
     
  13. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Huh, I remembered it exactly backwards. I figured the comic is where the unfurred Bimms came from and the WEG sourcebook would've likely doubled-down on the furred ones.
     
  14. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    Much as I adore Allen Nunis's artwork and think of him as one of WEG's best artists, his depictions of Bimms and Bothans never felt true to their descriptions in HTTE, especially the Bimms (who ended up look like D&D gnomes or halflings in the HTTE sourcebook). And don't get me started on both the text and the art of the sourcebook completely missing the mark on the Elomin, who I'm 95% sure Zahn intended to be the "Elom" alien from ROTJ.
     
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  15. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    What did Zahn intend "half-furred" to mean?
     
  16. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

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    Feb 18, 2005
    It did drop around the same time as the comic, but it was nearly three years after the near-human Bimms were depicted in the Heir to the Empire Sourcebook.

    Yeah, I would have figured the same in retrospect, given how faithful WEG generally tried to be and how far the comic creators let artistic license take them. I got to know the Bimms through WEG long before I read the novel, so I never had reason to consider their version might be in error until years later, but it's hard to ignore that they only fit the novel's description if you assume the half that's furred is hidden under clothing.

    I've often wondered if this is the case about the Eloms/Elomin, too, but I haven't seen anything that calls the furry alien an "Elom" that predates Galaxy Guide 12, which came long after the Thrawn Trilogy...

    Your guess is as good as mine. Zahn has many good qualities as an author, but giving detailed, unambiguous physical descriptions of anything in his books isn't one of them.
     
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  17. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    Not within the context of a story, but "Elom" was a production name for the alien during the making of ROTJ (along with "Mole" in case the jokey nature of the nickname wasn't straightforward enough) and appears in print in The Art of Return of the Jedi from 1983. I do wonder if it was used elsewhere, maybe in activity or sticker books or something, because by 1991 the name "Elom" was sufficiently attached to the ROTJ mole-man in my Star Wars consciousness that it was the first thing I thought of in relation to Zahn's "Elomin," enough to be surprised when the sourcebook didn't run with it.
     
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  18. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    ...oh my god.
     
  19. JohnLydiaParker

    JohnLydiaParker Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2019
    It occurred to me that while at least a few secondary reference books make references to (at least for capital ships) "tensor fields" helping to hold the ship together, that might not make them actually a thing in SW. The thing is that first, I'm unaware of them being mentioned in any actual works, and second, unlike a certain other universe, in SW ships really don't need them. Ships in SW are universally created with designs that, from a structural standpoint, shouldn't have any difficulty simply being made from "normal" structural metals and staying together. (Former engineering student here.) Anything at the end of a long wing or pylon is small and light. Ships that do look fragile are also very slow, which means they can afford to be more fragile. A super star destroyer may be very big, but it also has enough cross section down it's length to have a perfectly sound "hull girder," to use wet-navy speak. (For the loads it would actually take, anyway.)

    So if "tensor fields" aren't mentioned in any of the books/comics/games themselves, then they can probably be assumed not to exist.
     
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  20. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I always thought that something the size of a Star Destroyer (about 4 Empire State Buildings in length) couldn't be constructed with any of the materials we have today. No?
     
  21. JohnLydiaParker

    JohnLydiaParker Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Essentially depends on the load from engine thrust. Which would be along it's axis (along with all other ships). It's also much wider then a skyscraper, meaning far more longitudinal beams. The decks and major bulkheads can easily act to provide stiffness to the longitudinals, preventing them from buckling (something unavailable in a skyscraper), as well as providing much of the stiffening against oddball and sideways loads. If it mounts a thick armored outer hull, that's probably structural. We're talking box beams 6 (or 10!) feet tall, with sides a foot (or two) thick every few decks or between decks, or I-beams whose side is an entire deck-high bulkhead (oh my - you can turn any lengthy fore and aft into a I-beam! Clever). Since the ship only has to "support" from bow to the thrusters aft, structure can get thinner as the load on top of it decreases. (meaning closer to the bow.) I'd say against a 1G thrust load - just barely possible today, but of course it's more then that. (My theory as the why a SSD broke in half in The Bacta War is that (in an area where there's a major cutout in the hull) is damage to decks in an area of wide open hangers caused a loss of bracing. That, and a ship designed to operate in a vaccum in a concrete tomb under a city sounds like (with a bit of water leaking in) corrosion central.)
    But SW also has 4000 meter tall skyscrapers built of permacrete perhaps with durasteel reinforcement, and by all accounts there's no tensor fields or anything in them. Which essentially states that SW materials are likely a couple to several times stronger then today. Perhaps more. And to be honest, a warship the same length would weigh a lot less. In real life today concrete is far weaker then steel, but is so much cheaper they use vastly greater thickness of it. A two foot square concrete column could be an inch thick steel beam aa foot wide.
    Also, for the Lysunkia (spelled wrong) when it was leaving Corescant, if it had lost, say the front third of it's lift cradle, there's no reason to suppose the bow wouldn't have broken off. If the middle half had gone it probably would have snapped in two. But that's fine, since a SSD that only travels in space doesn't need to be able to support itself in that manner. A capital ship is essentially a skyscraper on it's side with the engine's thrust blocks as the ground and it's acceleration as gravity. Plus a bit of stiffness to withstand other loads. Requires stronger materials then today, but then, they have that.With repulsarlifts, there's enough generators they can be evenly distrusted around the ship, only having to support the small part of the ship above it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2024
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  22. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Did the Lusankya really break in half at Thyferra? I don't seem to remember that. I'm pretty sure when that happens to real-life naval vessels, they're considered damaged beyond repair.
     
  23. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Tensor fields aren't necessarily limited to ships - the Rogue One Ultimate Visual Guide mentions that they are used to help strengthen and stabilize the legs of AT-ACT walkers. They're not mentioned by name in the movie but we do see at one point what could be interpreted as ion bolts disrupting a tensor field around a walker's knee, causing it to collapse as that leg can no longer bear the weight.

     
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  24. JohnLydiaParker

    JohnLydiaParker Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2019
    It's bow broke off, yes. Apparently a SSD was considered valuable enough to reattach the bow and replace a fair bit of the midships section.
     
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  25. Delpheas

    Delpheas Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2023
    Dark Greetings! I just started the Jedi Prince series after reading a bunch of the post-RotJ Adult novels and comics, and wow these books are wild.

    Just in the first two chapters I have questions.

    Why is Han leaving to go start his own life?
    Did anyone in the Empire actually know Palpatine could lightning people?
    Why "Dark Greetings?" The Empire don't think themselves evil.

    Anyway, these books happened.
     
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