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George Lucas addresses Han/Greedo in EW

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by cal_silverstar, Jan 6, 2005.

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  1. cal_silverstar

    cal_silverstar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2002
    I posted this a couple months ago in the wrong forum so it'll sound like old news. But I think it's still worthy of discussion:

    In the 9/24/04 issue of Entertainment Weekly, Lucas addresses a lot of fans' main gripes: (I don't have a link to the full article)

    GL:..."If you really look at it, there's hardly any changes at all. The thing that really caused the trouble on Star Wars is the whole question of whether Han Solo or Greedo shoots first. The way it got cobbled together at the time, it came off as [Han] fired first. He didn't fire first.

    EW: So you consider this a correction?

    GL: It's a correction. [When I made Star Wars] I said, 'Well, I don't have that shot, so I'll just, you know, fudge it editorially.' In my mind [Greedo]shot first or at the same time. We like to think of [Han Solo] as a murderer because that's hip- I don't think that's a good thing for people. I mean, I don't see how you could redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood."...

    The rest of the article is a good read. I still disagree that Han shooting first is murder, Greedo had a blaster pointed at him. Any cowboy in the Old West would have done the same.
     
  2. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1999
    I too believe that it's never wrong to shoot someone who's pointing a gun at you.
     
  3. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    I agree, you're not a murderer if you have someone pointing a gun at you, saying they've been waiting a long time for "it." That and isn't this whole thing about being able to redeem a murderer?
     
  4. Hades2021

    Hades2021 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2003
    That's funny because Anakin kills many people in cold blood and he gets redeemed.
     
  5. jewlmc

    jewlmc Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 1999
    I mean, I don't see how you could redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood."...

    Um, George? I'd like to introduce you to your main character...Anakin Skywalker.

    He kind of kills lots of people in cold blood or has them killed for him and his Emperor. One time, I'm not kidding, a whole PLANET at once!

    Yet he was redeemed.

    In short, what the HELL are you talking about?

     
  6. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1999
    Vader didn't destroy Alderaan. Tarkin did.
     
  7. Leias_love_slave

    Leias_love_slave Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2003
    In short, what the HELL are you talking about?

    jewlmc
    , a wise man once said:

    "...you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view."

    This is a 'get out of jail free' card for apparent contradictions.
     
  8. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    Vader didn't destroy Alderaan. Tarkin did.

    I agree with it, however it brings up a moral debate of sorts. Many would argue that Vader had the ablity to resist Tarkin's decision and save Alderaan, yet he went along with it in a passive manner. So is he just as guilty? A sort of guilt by association. Surly if he felt it was wrong he could have said something, or stalled it so he could discuss the matter with Tarkin in private. If they didn't want to hear his argument, he could force choke them all and save the planet. The fact is that he didn't do any of those things and watched as the planet was destroyed. So it could be argued that he is just as guilty for the destruction of the planet as Tarkin.

    I don't actually think that, I'm just playing around with the ideas.

    -Seldon
     
  9. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1999
    Failing to prevent someone else from committing a crime is not wrong on either the legal or the moral side of things.
     
  10. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    If your friend was beating the bloody pulp out of some guy, and you just stood there and watched, then you could be guilty by association.

    -Seldon
     
  11. StarSmuggler

    StarSmuggler Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2004
    I think that Vader shares the responsibility of Aldreraan getting blown-up. He could have stopped Tarkin. As for Han, having him shoot first didn't make him a murderer- it made him smart. If you know that someone wants you dead and most likely has a blaster pointed at you, killing them makes sense.
     
  12. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 17, 2003
    In regards to Han, it was pure self-defense. Greedo was holding him at gun point and making threats to kill him. Han was defending his own life.

    -Seldon
     
  13. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    [blockquote]If your friend was beating the bloody pulp out of some guy, and you just stood there and watched, then you could be guilty by association.[/blockquote]

    Yeah, technically, you're an accomplice.

    Hmmm, the way I see it, whether Vader made the order or not to destroy Alderaan is rather irrelevent. On an issue of that scale, where there is a clear moral line, either for the deaths of millions or against it, all who weren't against the decision were for it and are pretty much as responsible as the next. In my opinion at least. :p
     
  14. Nightowl

    Nightowl TFN Timetales Writer star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    I still don't think we've heard the real story on this. Lucas just yanked that reason out of his you-know-where for the magazine. If he'd intended Greedo to shoot first all along, it would've been in the script -- it wasn't.

    I can only speculate, but maybe the change was a backhanded slap at Harrison Ford for so famously dissing his directorial style (and griping that Han didn't get to die in ROTJ).
     
  15. NeoBaggins

    NeoBaggins Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Could be. Lucas is obviously a vengful man.
     
  16. FYYATI

    FYYATI Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2005
    He should have just left it alone.
     
  17. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    GREEDO
    You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship.

    HAN
    Over my dead body.

    GREEDO
    That's the idea. I've been looking forward to killing you for a long time.

    HAN
    Yes, I'll bet you have.

    Suddenly the slimy alien disappears in a blinding flash of light. Han pulls his smoking gun from beneath the table as the other patrons look on in bemused amazement. Han gets up and starts out of the cantina, flipping the bartender some coins as he leaves.


    Fudge it editorially, eh? uh-huh...
     
  18. JoshDorst

    JoshDorst Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2004
    The EW article made me incredible angry when I read it. In addition to the Han/Greedo quote, he also talked about there was no longer an original version of the film. The question I have about the Han/Greedo quote is: if he really believed Han Solo to be a murderer, how could he release the film and market it to kids with a clear conscience?
    My other problem with the Han/Greedo quote is who he seems to blame. He seems to be blaming his Oscar-winning editors, which include his ex-wife. That makes me believe he hates the original films because she was involved and wants to change them enough to change the credits. Once he's done with the prequals, he'll have no need to answer to the DGA, SAG, Editors Guild, or anyone else. He can change the credits and get rid of her name on his films.
     
  19. Chaotic_Serenity

    Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2004
    There is a slight difference between the two. Anakin has always meant to be a villain, his path to rise, then fall and eventually be redeemed. Han is supposed to just rise from his ambiguously moral beginnings and remain a hero.

    But who cares. Y'know what, I really don't care. At all. I wouldn't give a damn if the bartender was the one to shoot in the next DVD release. I still like the cantina scene. It isn't going to kill me to know who shoots first.
     
  20. Blackout

    Blackout Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2000
    On the subject of Tarkin destroying Alderaan and Vader being guilty by association.

    Surely it was the guys flipping the switches who destroyed it then? ;) Tarkin only gave the order, they were the mindless saps who obeyed.





    J/K... well, kinda [face_laugh]

    [hl=black]{[/hl][hl=darkgoldenrod]||||| ?||[/hl][hl=black]}[/hl][hl=blueviolet] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/hl]
     
  21. EvilYoda

    EvilYoda Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 2002
    Greedo had a gun pointed at Han.

    Greedo made it clear he was about to kill Han.

    It's called self-defense. (sigh)

    Editing it made it look clumsy and awkward. It also took something away from the character.

    The whole thing just makes no sense to me.
     
  22. Ididitall4thewookie

    Ididitall4thewookie Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    GL's quote in EW is a load of crap. The LEAST he could do is leave it alone simply because they cant seem to make it look at least decent. Greedo missing from 3 feet away? Come on. Han's cool factor goes down.
     
  23. I_Shot_First

    I_Shot_First Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Lucas is Wrong!
     
  24. DARTHFINGERZ

    DARTHFINGERZ Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2004
    "Well, I don't have that shot, so I'll just, you know, fudge it editorially."

    He didn't have the shot cuz he didn't film it that way originally cuz it wasn't scripted or intended to go that way.

    "In my mind Greedo shot first or at the same time."

    Yeah in his "mind" around 96-97 when production for the SE was taking place after OVER-THINKING the scene and getting softer after the passage of time.

    "We like to think of Han Solo as a murderer because that's hip- I don't think that's a good thing for people."

    Thanks for the sly insult! But NO - it was self defense, he had the scene PERFECT in 77.

    "I mean, I don't see how you could redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood."

    First, CLEAR selfdefense is hardly cold blooded murder. Second, take note: Anakin Skywalker's entire life story = redemption of a murderer, a tyrant, a Sith Dark Lord...the list goes on & on....

     
  25. Evil_Otto

    Evil_Otto Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 28, 2004
    I mean, I don't see how you could redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood."...

    Oh man, am I going to get as senile as that when I get old?! The thing is, I think ol' George has lost it! You know, I see a certain difference in his attitudes now to when he was younger, a kind of fluffyness and sentimentality; a real naive (the hero can't do anything wrong and can't die) way of thinking, like a silly old man in an old folks home would think. Was Clint a murderer when he spun round in the barber's chair to plug some gunfighters that had stormed in through the door in order to shoot him? No, and neither was Han for shooting a gun totting Greedo. In actual fact, as a kid I thought that scene was actually funny and reminded me of Clint, the way he got the upper hand on Greedo and just walked out calmly saying to the barman, "Sorry about the mess." I'm sorry to say this, but these sorts of explanations just make me think that he's turned into one of those aforementioned "silly old men". :(
     
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