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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Han and Leia in the EU - A Discussion Thread (Life Debt spoilers must be tagged)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by unicorn, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. dragonchic

    dragonchic Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2015
    I doubt it, casting someone for a five second cameo is one thing, casting a lead is another. Ingvild was probably cast more for having cute chubby cheeks ala ANH!Leia rather than her acting ability.

    I DO think we will eventually see young Leia and Luke recast, but as we saw with Han, close resemblance isn't a priority (though I do wonder if they'll try to make Luke and Leia look more like siblings).
     
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  2. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 29, 2012
    I'm still not getting over the fact that Anthony Ingruber wasn't even considered, let alone chosen, to play young Han.
     
  3. Claire1976

    Claire1976 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2013
    The casting of Alden still baffles me. Previously they have chosen actors with a good resemblance to play younger versions of characters but with young Han I see no resemblance at all. He's not even the same build as Harrison and yet the character will only be a few years younger than we saw him in ANH. Maybe we will all be surprised when we see the movie, but I'll remain sceptical until then. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.


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  4. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
    I think a movie about teenager Leia (showing Bail and the Rebellion, Leia's planet etc) is more interesting than a movie about young Han. Also Han Solo movie has less representativity than TFA/TLJ/RO, Leia's movie would have at least two poc as Bail and Breha
     
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  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    It would require an insane budget and development to replicate what they did with Leia in R1. Just those few seconds took months of work, ditto Tarkin.
     
  6. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    People seem way more open to the idea of a Young Leia movie than a Young Han one. I’ve seen multiple enthusiastic posts on tumblr about Millie Bobby Brown taking on the role, with thousands of notes each.

    I wonder why that is.
     
  7. Claire1976

    Claire1976 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 20, 2013
    I think because it's easy to see Millie in the role, and she looks like a young Carrie in many photos. Alden on the other hand still needs to convince a lot of people.




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  8. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 11, 2016
    But there was a lot of opposition to a Young Han movie way before Alden was cast.
     
  9. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 10, 2017
    Its not like Alden lacks the acting chops. By all accounts, he's great. Maybe it'll be easier to see him as Solo when he's onscreen actually playing him.
     
  10. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Jedi Ben, yeah I didn't mean that they would do digital CGI over her, just dye her hair and give her brown contacts to play Leia. I have no idea what her acting abilities are though, so dragonchic is probably right that if they do ever cast a young Leia it probably won't be her.

    Sadly, I don't think we'll ever get a young Leia movie out or they would have never commissioned Claudia Gray to write a young Leia book because they would have wanted to keep that secret. It's too bad though since the actors who play Bail and Breha are the exact right age to play a teenage Leia's parents now.

    Myself I'm more interested in Leia's backstory because I think her past life is really interesting (double agent in the Senate, secretly helping set up the Rebellion while putting on a diplomatic face in the Imperial Senate), maybe because I'm a woman so it interests me more? For some reason, Han's backstory never really interested me as much. I did like the Daley books though.

    I think one reason people are so opposed to Han's backstory being told in movie form is that Han Solo is so completely associated with Harrison Ford that it's really hard to imagine another actor coming in and filling the role. That's not my problem with it though, since I've enjoyed young Harrison Ford characters before (River Phoenix in Indiana Jones, and the Young Indiana Jones series). I know some Han/Leia fans who are excited for it though.
     
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  11. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2016
    I️ had to look up who Millie Bobby Brown was, and I️ found out she’s the girl from Stranger Things. Everyone on the internet is obsessed with Stranger Things, so that’s probably why it gets lots of tumblr notes


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  12. Jozgar

    Jozgar Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 20, 2015
    Obligatory “you should really watch Stranger Things if you haven’t already” comment.

    Anyways, Millie has proven acting chops and kind of looks like a very young Leia, but her character in Stranger Things is very, very different from what young Leia would be like. I’m not sure she could do the latter as well as she did the former.
     
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  13. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001

    Well, in an AU if Leia learned the Force she COULD be like Eleven ;) But Millie is a fantastic actress and I'm sure she'd be able to do different roles.

    My one concern with recasting Leia is that Carrie has SUCH a distinctive alto voice that it's going to be hard for whomever replaces her to replicate it.
     
  14. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
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  15. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    I reckon that's something that's going to matter less and less the more the franchise dips into the classic era; clearly Lucasfilm isn't interested purely in casting sound-a-likes/look-a-likes for the OT roles, or else Anthony Ingruber would have been given Solo. I'm glad they seem to care more about capturing the essence of the character rather than slavishly trying to recreate past performances -- Rogue One notwithstanding, as I assume the Tarkin thing was a bit of a one-off. And Leia's appearance was right for the note of hope the film ended on. Anything more substantial and it should be the most convincing/charismatic/talented actor, rather than whoever can do the best impression.
     
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  16. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
  17. MattOrgana

    MattOrgana Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Star Wars: Poe Dameron #21

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Claire1976

    Claire1976 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Fantastic likeness of Carrie there!


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  19. MattOrgana

    MattOrgana Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 7, 2015
    Yeah, it's really impressive.
     
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  20. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
    Great artwork! And they finally got Leia's eye colour right, in other parts of the Poe comic it was blue.

    Interesting that by then Ben is already dark, and Leia thinks she'll have grandchildren someday? I guess she's still holding out hope he'll turn back to the Light, though it seems odd neither she nor Han are doing anything about helping him turn back to the Light and are both just involved in the Resistance and smuggling, respectively.
     
  21. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    http://ravenya003.blogspot.ca/2017/11/meta-why-redemption-isnt-what-it-used.html

    So far the only reason we’ve been given for Kylo’s defection to the First Order is an indication that he felt ignored by his parents who were busy trying to bring safety to the galaxy, leaving him open to manipulation by a giant CGI mishap. Seriously? If that’s really what they’re going with, I guarantee it’ll have the exact opposite effect in garnering sympathy among viewers. How many of us grew up imagining how cool it would be if Han Solo and Princess Leia were our parents? And now Kylo’s defection is effectively going to be blamed on them?

    Yeah, that’s gonna go down like a cup of cold sick.


    Well, glad we're not the only ones who feel this way.
     
  22. grungebunny

    grungebunny Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Still hoping those people she mentions are her grandparents, her aunt and her cousins
     
  23. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
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  24. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013
    That's a really good article, that really encapsulates a frustration that I definitely feel.

    I basically don't see any possible good ending for the story from the writers' point of view, and here's why:

    1) On the one hand, there basically has to be a redemption story. As with the whole "is Snape good or bad" debate from a decade ago, the laws of pop culture narratives have pretty much dictated the answer - the writers aren't going to tease the possibility of redemption, put up a character who's pulled between the light and the dark side, make the viewers wonder which side he's finally going to come down on, only to then say "welp, he's just a simple bad guy after all!"*

    2) On the other hand, they've pretty much set up the character so that there's no possible way to feel sympathetic for him. At least Anakin had his upbringing as a slave in a fourth-world failed state, plus a massive life disruption that transferred him from a normal-ish life to a universe of monks just in time for him to hit puberty - no wonder he ended up so screwed up. Kylo Ren, on the other hand, was raised in privilege by two loving parents. The only way you can possibly give him a Freudian excuse is by making Han and Leia into A-holes.

    3) So, the writers are stuck with an unenviable choice. Either tell the redemption story for the most unsympathetic villain ever written, in which case most of your audience will end up dissatisfied because they simply don't care about this whiny brat. Or give him a background that makes the redemption story more deserved, but at the cost of pissing off a fandom that cares a lot more about Han and Leia than they do about this whiny brat. (Or just don't give him a redemption story at all, in which case the audience will wonder "what the hell was that all about?")

    * Though perhaps they should. I actually loved the character of Lindsey in Angel for being exactly this: in Season 1, you get some sympathy for him, you see that he's not just a one-dimensional bad guy, and then you see him choose evil. Then in Season 2 he actually does backtrack and choose the better path, but that, again, is only temporary and by the end of the series he chooses evil again. It actually makes for a very effective villain: you hate him that much more because you've seen just enough of him to know that he's not a cardboard character and that he does have the capacity for good, but then you see him choose not to exercise it, again and again and again. I could use more villains like that in my pop culture. But sadly, that's not how the overall trend, and in any case the first movie didn't do much to hint at Kylo Ren being a character that was as complex and interesting as Lindsey McDonald.
     
  25. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Further comments on that article -

    For every Zuko, who remains the gold standard of redemption arcs (legitimately sympathetic upbringing, a realization that he's doing wrong, taking responsibility for his actions, apologising to those he hurt, never crossing the Event Moral Horizon), there's the confusing moral dissonance of what writers tried to sell on BBC's Robin Hood with Guy of Gisborne or Once Upon a Time with Regina or even Darth Vader himself in Star Wars.

    For anyone who's curious, this Tumblr post from a pop culture reviewer I like goes into the TFA/ATLA comparison between Kylo Ren and Zuko that were being made, and explains concisely both why Zuko was so well done and why Kylo Ren has nothing on him - http://abigailnussbaum.tumblr.com/post/138204084260/sennydreadful-a1ways-together-for-anyone-who

    People have finally, finally had enough of being asked to feel sorry for villains, both in real life and in fiction – and you can see that shift in what's suddenly become popular. I mentioned elsewhere that Stranger Things is a hit not due to its Eighties nostalgia, but because it's fundamentally about good, kind people who win the day through acts of love for each other. * Audiences didn't respond well to the grim-darkness of Zach Snyder's Superman (who was always meant to be a beacon of light) but enthusiastically embraced the hope and promise of Wonder Woman. With the exception of Loki, none of the Marvel films have had particularly compelling villains – instead, the hero-protagonists are considered interesting and likeable enough to carry the story, with their inherent goodness being the franchise's drawcard (everything from Captain America's do-good attitude to Luis going back for the unconscious security guard in Ant-Man).


    I'd agree with this, and in fact it's part of the eighties nostalgia for me. I'm just a little too young to be part of the generation that Stranger Things was aimed at - I remember the nineties, not the eighties. But eighties pop culture has always been my go-to sweet spot, precisely because (on television at least) it's so much easier to find good guys. First show from that era I caught on reruns was MacGyver, which pretty much epitomizes this; things like The A-Team, Magnum P.I, The Equalizer et al came next. The closer you get to my generation's entertainment, and, well, shows like that never quite disappeared... but they get more and more crowded out by grimdark entertainment focused on grimdark antiheroes (24) or outright bad guys (Breaking Bad, House of Cards, Game of Thrones), which is really not my scene, and which to make things worse is considered automatically more "serious" or "adult." If a lot of other people are finally getting saturated with that, then honestly, hallelujah as far as I'm concerned.