Han and Leia's Club House

Yeah her training really could have been handled better. I hope from now on it'll be consistent that she's NOT a Jedi, rather than the next author writes her as a Jedi, and then the one after that says she's not, etc.

I don't mind that she's not a Jedi. It's nice that there are two people who don't have the Force but are still very much part of the SW galaxy. I always felt the EU leaned too heavily on Force-sensitive characters, especially considering it's supposed to be a rare trait.

 

I thought us Americans had it bad when it came to the price for SbS... Canada and Oz have it worse.

I'm 10 chapters in to it (stupid homework/schoolwork/work in general) and thankfully there has been no scene stealing by Luke and Mara... in fact, we've only see the later once!

#*$% Speaking of work I've got to run...

~*~Bria

 

sweetheart, I am swooning over the picture you updated the first page of your site with. Their faces look so in love when the moment's frozen like that.

 

Well, I finished the death scene. Even though I've never been a fan of Anakin, it was written well that I was thoroughly depressed by the end.

Han's character was spot-on in how he reacted violently, and his thoughts about how he couldn't take off this time were perfect. Could picture it all in my head. Great part where Han's about to leave and Leia pleads him not to, even though she was annoyed at his constant presence before.

Didn't like the fight they had later, because there was basically no resolution to it, and I didn't see a point to it.

I felt there should have been one scene where Han and Leia talked about the death and comforted each other.

Denning does good characterization all around, and it was great to finally see the whole group together, which hasn't happened since VP.

 

Ahhh! No one's supposed to see my new design yet It's not really up yet and I still need to tweak some stuff

Thanks though, that's my all time favourite pic of them

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Yeah I really liked how Han was so sweet and overprotective of Leia in this book. He's come a long way in healing. I'm not sure how I feel about Leia's reaction to the the death, and yeah I didn't like how the fight had no resolution either. I thought both of their reactions were in character and nicely done.

 

Are you telling me Han has a BEARD in SBS??? *drooooooool* That is reason enough for me to read it!

And, I love Ewan with a beard too!

Of course fully qualified Jedi should have a beard! Look at the master Jedi - Lucas
Another error for the EU! hehehehe!

 

Hey, Leela -- I know why you like beards, you old Mary-Sue you!

Personally, Harrison with the stubble as Indy is great. Very scratchy on the face, if you read what Sean Young said about him during their love scene in Blade Runner , but they hated each other so I suspect he was rough on purpose!

Harrison with his Fugitive beard is icky -- SHUDDER.

Harrison wearing that short beard that Leela pointed out to us the other week, "bearded Han", is divine!

 

Well Leela it is a full mustache (fake) with sideburns, so I don't know how romantic the fake mustache could be

Ahh my site's new look is coming along soooo slowly... I'm sorry for anyone who wants it to be updated...

YF and Corran made my conscience not return SBS, but I'm willing to give it away..I have no desire to reread such a depressing book agian...

 

....and speaking of Mary-Sues.....

Is it possible to say that one of the good things about having a male pro-fic author write a SW novel is that at least they don't generally put themselves in the damn story.

Look at Crispin's HST stuff. Apart from not being that wonderfully written , if Bria ain't a case of "Mary-Sue-itis", I don't what is!! (I could rant and rave about this Trilogy of books, and how disappointing they were, and how they don't live up to Daley's novels, but now is not the time. Come one -- you're telling me that a kid that was treated as badly as Han was in those books didn't grow up to be a homocidal, psychotic maniac?? Yeah...right....)

I mean, granted, I do have a tendency to Mary-Sue myself into my fics. But my excuses are numerous:

1. I live through Leia. Leia does the things I would do. She interacts with Han the way I (lust after) want to do.

2. I hope even then my Mary-Sues aren't too blatently obvious. And if they, are well then I hope everyone else enjoy them.

3. I'm writing cos I want to and I love it, and because the damn pro-fics don't live up to my expectations. I should be able to write whatever I please. The rest of the pro-fics authors, Crispin included, GOT PAID!! The least they could do is not insult our intelligence!!

<phew> There. Got that off my chest.

Anyway, stevenhunter, as you're probably one of the few men on this board, would be interested in your opinion.

 

Hear hear, Corellian Blue! Well said

As for the male authors not giving us Marysues or, should I say, Garystus, I'm afraid they do. Wolverton outdid himself with his Isolder Garystu, and Stackpole has Corran, and Zahn has Karrde... I guess the difference is I don't mind Corran or Karrde, whereas I find Isolder and Bria insulting.

Han with a moustach... Eeeewwwww! The only pic I've seen of Harrison with a moustach made him look bloody ancient! Horrible! Horrible!
No, I'm strictly a full beard girl Like that scrumptiously munchible pic I posted a few pages back

 

ok guys, cant stay long, gotta go to school, so I'll make this quick:

for anyone I was chatting w/ last nite, go to my bria debate. Look who posted!!!! Doesnt that just make your jaw drop?

 

Personally, I prefer Han and Harrison clean shaven, although Harrison does look pretty good with the beard he sports on the cover of Imperfect Hero. As for a moustache, I think I saw the same picture Leela did and I concur with her opinion. He looked absolutely terrible.

I checked out your debate Toryn. Do you think that was A. C. Crispin herself?

 

I perfer clean shaven too. Though I must admit mustaches say so much...

~*~Bria

 

Haha....Maybe I'll try to return mine, too....Ooo...that'd be more money for me....but I don't think I'll end up doing it. I'm trying to sell off some of my DVD's and CD's. Oh, while I'm on the subject, if any of you are interested in a list of what I'm selling, let me know. I was gonna take stuff to the local used cd/dvd retailer...but I probably won't get much. Le sigh....I might have to break down and get a job. GAH!

 

Corellian Blue

Are you a good witch or a bad witch??? (lame Wizard of Oz reference, but alas) Watch what you say, let you have the literary house dropped on you as well.

And being the proverbial thick-skinned wiseacre that I am who just happens to cherish her rights to freedom of expression (and that isn't freedom just to gush), I have given last night's events some thoughts and have composed a little haiku for you all.

Bugged by Mary Sues
Nastigram waiting for me
The First Ammendment

lame it is, but I never claimed to be a poet or a gardener. The flowers looked great, but I can't grow veggies to save my life.

Birkendoc

 

As for Star By Star, how can I not like this book?? Afterall, Troy Denning is a cheesehead (translation fellow Wisconsinite). That in itself is a good thing.

Seriously, been slowly reading the book (working and RL getting in the way.) But I have to say that Han and Leia's interactions, though not overly romantic are spot on. Finally Han is the protector again--a role he welcomed in the films. He isn't going to be a jerk. He's sticking by his family and is turning his grief into resolve. the first part of the NJO dealt with him not being able to handle these new and devastating emtions. I see this novel as the turning point for his character in the series. He's reaffirming who he is and what his obligations are to the ones he loves. This Han is going to kick some major vong rear.

liking this book more each time I pick it up.

Birk

edit: once again I need to learn to spell

 

It sounds to me like an overzealous fan myself.

On the Mary Sue debate, I think most Han/Leia writers probably identify themselves with Leia while writing but I don't see the case of Mary Sue-ism so strongly in Han/Leia fics. There isn't the "Leia walks into a room and all the guy's jaws drop", "Leia gives a ravishing preformance and sings/dances and amazes everyone", "everyone thinks how lucky Han is to have Leia", "all the women are so jealous of Leia" the way there is with most Mary Sue fics. The worst offenders for these type of fics are Luke/Mara fics.

Isolder and Xizor were Gary Stus, but they both got rejected by Leia eventually, so I don't think they were as offensive.

 

Warning rant ahead, if you really like the HST and Bria do not read, this is for CB's benefit...













Ah CB, don't get me started on a Mary Sue rant. Alright, Bria tops ANY Mary Sue I have EVER read, SW or not. When I finished the books I thought, "Good grief, I just read one huge Mary Sue fanfic!" How contrived is it that she started the Rebellion, she was Han's first true love, AND stole the Death Star plans with her bare hands??!!

Have you ever taken the Mary Sue litmus test with her? Bria scores off the charts!

Lessee here:

- red-gold hair - NUMBER ONE sign of Mary Sue-ism

- beautiful

- Han falls for her on sight

- falls in love with/has sex with the main hero

- breaks the main hero's heart

- said main hero pines away for her for ten years

- hero worships her like there's no tomorrow

- knows hero will eventually fall for someone else, since canon dictates it, so what does she do? Twists around all their dialogue in the movies to fit Bria to make it seem like Han is thinking of Bria with her to make it CLEAR the other woman is a substitute/second choice

- completley downplays and minimizes other women in Han's life, Xaverri, etc. to focus on her pet character. Crystal Star said Han loved Xaverri, may have ended up with her if she hadn't left, why is she given about three pages in THG? Han names his ship after Bria while seeing Salla, another girlfriend who was downplayed?

- More Mary Sue-isms:

- can speak Wookiee

- pitch-perfect singing voice

- single-handedly starts the Rebellion (and you thought Mon Mothma and Bail did! Pfft..)

- gets Alderaan into the Rebellion

- is an angel to the Rebellion troops

- even moves the heart of Boba Fett, fearless bounty hunter!

- animals like her

- can easily manipulate guys with her looks and coyness

- all the Han/Bria stuff is pure Mary-Sueism, won't go into details

- steals the Death Star plans

- biggest Mary Sue offense of all: dies. At least Hambly had the dignity to have her Mary Sue leave with grace when her and Luke realized it was not meant to be. Crispin pulled the ultimate Mary Sue and offed Bria with some mentality "If she can't have him, no one will" and implied Han was on the rebound in ANH. Ugh....

And the "I know" thing is the most offensive part of the HST - Bad case of author ego, is all I have to say.

I'm quite biased as I'm defensive of Leia, and Bria was such an obvious attempt to "out-do" her it irks me to no end. Crispin lifting all the wonderful Han/Leia dialogue in the movies and twisting it into some fantasy of Bria to make it obvious Han is thinking of Bria while he's with Leia is completely out of line. Bria should have stayed in the past, instead of Crispin having her muscle into all of Han's actions and dialogue in the movies. Arggg...

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Okay, fans of HST can look now...

 

Just read everyone else's posts. Birkendoc what are you talking about with gardening? Feel like I'm missing something.

I guess since I'm not into romance as much as some of the girls here, I don't find SBS too disappointing. Terribly depressing yes, but I like the characterizations and actions. Leia has been written badly too many times to count, it's relieving to see her characterized right TWICE in a row.

The EU is full of Gary Stus and Mary Sues, but some are acceptable that they don't bother me. Corran Horn is a Gary Stu of Stackpole, but he's definitely not as offensive as he doesn't undermine certain events in the films, and his romantic interest is a purely EU based character. Actually, I, Jedi is one of my favorite EU books. Would love to see a first person based book of one of the mains someday.

 

Ha ha, great list!!! Sooo true.

I never read I, Jedi. I usually don't buy books without the mains in them. Maybe I'll start to read it inbetween NJO books, since the next NJO book has no Han and Leia in it, it's a wait until April or so.

On Mary Sues vs. male Mary Sues, I think women do it more blatantly because they have their Mary Sue not ONLY fall for the main character, but also save the day. With guy Mary Sues, they usually just have the guy save the day.

 

cool list stevenhunter! And very accurate

This is not supposed to be sexist in any way! It's my take on mary sues and marty stus.

If most women were in SW, the wish list would kind of go:

1) Most beautiful/successful/force strong woman
2) Love of life of Luke/Han with one of them worshipping the ground we walk on
3) The driving force behind the Rebellion
4) Long hair
5) Fought over by at least two highly attractive men we don't really want

Men tend to go for:

1) Most kickass pilot ever
2) Most kickass Jedi ever
3) Most kickass smuggler ever
4) Coolest ship ever
5) Possibly someone Leia finds attractive

And I'm with CorellianBlue -- I stick myself in Leia's place -- who wouldn't! I want Han and I want to be Leia.

 

Well, some of you guys know that I really enjoyed Crispin's books, so I guess I'll be the one oddball today in that respect.

Now that I'm finished with SbS I've been trying to catch up with you guys. I'll just quickly weigh in with my preliminary opinion...

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I think I pretty much agree with Stevenhunter and sweetheart. Although maybe I was a tad bit more disappointed, actually! I thought Leia's reaction was initially appropriate and then she was kind of all over the map. But you would be, having just lost a child. But I just couldn't see her entrusting Ben to Threepio, no matter how grief-stricken she was. And I thought that while it was clear Han was being strong for her sake, I might have liked to see a little more of the intensity of emotion he showed after losing Chewie. But I know there were glimpses, so I'll just have to go back and re-read now.

But I really liked all the things you guys mentioned that you liked, too. There were some nice moments, for sure! I'm looking forward to what Denning does with Recovery. Maybe it's time for an official countdown to December 3.

 

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I don't know if I consider Leia's reaction in character or not. I suppose it's not something you can determine just because losing a child is just about the most devestating event that can happen to someone, you can't really predict how someone will react. One of the most poignant moments of the book is the time where, even though Leia's getting annoyed at Han, when he gets up to answer the comm, Leia suddenly begs him to stay, and he melts.

I also thought it was a bit off that Han showed more of a devestating reaction to Chewie than Anakin. I know it's supposed to show how much he's grown since then, but I didn't really blame Leia when she snapped at him for not seeming to care. I thought his protectiveness and worrying about Leia was all beautifully done.

I loved it when Han thought that he couldn't take off this time, that this time Leia's not going to keep them together, this time she'll need someone to be strong. Very sweet.

Not sure how I feel about Han snapping at Leia saying "I didn't think you'd take off like I did, I thought you were stronger than that." It just seemed like an insensitive thing to say to her. Aside from that though, he's the most considerate and protective I've ever seen him written in this book, so I can ignore that for now

 

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Really good comments sweetheart, and I totally agree with everything. His overprotectiveness was really appropriate and refreshing, I thought.

 

Forgot to say before Corellian Blue, I wouldn't think your stories are Mary Sue like - They're definitely the best, far and away, in all Han/Leia fan fiction.

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Leia's reaction was definitely all over the place, but I think it's understandable considering what she's been through. I liked the contrast between that and her reaction to Alderaan.

Han's reaction was perfect, IMO.

Sounds like Han has been really annoying Leia with his overprotectiveness.