ST Han Solo/Harrison Ford Discussion Thread

I've seen enough even in this thread that the two best scenes with Han are the two with Kylo, one of which he dies in and one of which he's actually dead. I see it across the media including Vulture's listing of the best SW scenes. I saw Han's death on Tumblr pretty much hourly for a solid month once the DVDs for TFA came out, over and over again, mainly by certain Kylo fans. So I see a certain celebratory aspect to Han's death in the fandom right now, from certain fans.

Studio - there is no location he could stand on. JJ gave some long explanation about the lengths they went to to get Ford to London under wraps and they code named him The Janitor, which makes me wonder what JJ's fixation is with being a janitor, considering he's the one who put Finn in sanitation.

 

I don't think that if one things Han's death scene and his chat with Kylo are really well done suddenly means you hate Han Solo and are celebrating that he dies. Far from it, I think those scenes are fantastic but at no point do I think "yay he's dead!" They're great because they're emotionally affecting and very excellently acted by Driver and Ford.

 

Sorry, I can't agree that they're emotionally affecting, or excellently acted, at least by Driver. But that's my opinion. I'm well aware it's not a popular one.

I have to ask, what in the world is your tag quote from?

 

Hah, it's Poe Dameron in the novel "Before the Awakening" where he boards a ship and pretends to be a crazy pirate or something to scare some baddies off. It's kind of random but I quite dig it because it is so random.

 

It's popular with me. I don't think either of the scenes are well written, and I think AD looks blank in both of them. Han's character shouldn't be reduced to those moments. His death scene is his worst moment in the Saga to me because it's so tragic and unjust, and also horribly devoid of context for something like that. The scene in RoS is less than meaningless to me, because it isn't even him. It's Kylo imagining him, then Kylo self-servingly imagines Han forgiving him. This is intolerable to me. Only Han can extend that sentiment, real Han. And of everyone else in the galaxy, Kylo is the last person in my mind that can extend it on his behalf.

Han's best scenes in this trilogy were with Chewie and Finn and Rey. The dialogue in his scenes with Leia were way too cringey for me because of their frustrating break up and then the total lack of specifics of their story after RotJ because JJ's gotta JJ.

 

Han's death is the best scene in TFA, and the mirrored scene in TROS is the best in that one aswell.

I can tell Harrison cared alot about those scenes, he brought his A game.

 

Third here. I don't think they are well written or well acted. I can't see what the fuss is about with Driver and his blank stare. It emotes nothing.

 

Harrison in the entire film. inspired. Imo it's one of his best performances, period.

 

yah Ford is fantastic in TFA and his scene in TROS. I always thought that Ford may have wanted to distance himself from Han Solo due to typecasting fears but once it came down to it and he was on set (and the big cheques were signed), the man knew how to play Solo because he totally is him.

 

That's kinda the point.

And just becuse someone enjoys the scene dos'nt mean that like that Han died - I loved the scene.

I don't think Ford not liking Han had anything to do with typecasting, but just the fact that, as he's made quite clear, he was never that invested in Star Wars and felt the charecter had nowhere to go by the end of ROTJ. If he's every been truly attached to any of his roles it woud be Indy, Han was just a stepping-stone to greater fan and more oppertunities.

 

This reminds me I still haven't seen Witness which is apparently up there for best Ford performances. Or maybe I did decades ago but probably not.

 

Witness is great. Ford was on a pretty solid role through the eighties into the early ninetes. I just watched Patriot Games a few weeks ago for the first time in a decade and forgot how gooood it is (as well as how baby-faced Sean Bean was).

 

I don’t think the point of the scene is its injustice. If it was, the trilogy wouldn’t be about everyone and their dog caring more about Han’s murderer than Han’s murder.

I didn’t say anything about people liking Han’s death scene meaning that they like that Han died. I just agree with the other perspective - Han’s death scene is horrible and Han the character deserved more. He got a crappy death scene in sacrifice to a story that went nowhere for a character that wasn’t worth it.

 

My favorite Han scenes in TFA are the back and forth banter. Feels like the old days

Same thing I always do — talk my way out of it.
Rrrawrrrrr
Yes I do! Every time!

and

Have I ever not delivered for you before?
Yeah
Twice
<pause>
What was the second time?

Lol

 

Then what do you think the point of the scene was? In the context of how it was originally presented in TFA, that is.

I guess we'll just have agree to disagree. I though the scene was great, and honestly I don't tend to go around thinking fictional characters - even ones I love - "deserve" anything.

 

I do. Stories should have satisfying payoff, at least in this fantasy genre. That death was beneath his character imo. It’s not at all hard to think of hypothetical death scenes for characters that some would think they deserve better than. I definitely recall in the very recent past, Kylo fans were outraged at the idea of Kylo being unceremoniously yeeted, never to be seen again. I personal don’t think that was beneath Kylo’s character, but Han’s death was beneath his.

 

Not all stories do, and not all charecters get satasfying endings. That does'nt make their deaths illegitimate or undeserved. Han's demise served a purpose (to solidify Kylo as the antagonist) - and of course he did'nt deserve it, but then agian Obi-Wan did'nt deserve to be killed by Vader, Qui-Gon and Satine did'nt deserve to be killed by Maul, the younglings did'nt deserve to be killed by Anakin and everybody on Alderaan did'nt deserve to be vaporized by the Death Star.

 

You cut off the part where I said especially this genre. I don’t agree with your take. Han Solo is a classic, beloved character in a major franchise, and these characters are generally afforded meaningful deaths. It can be interesting to do subversion for a good theme or point, but that’s why I originally made the argument that his death was wasted on a story that went nowhere for a character that didn’t deserve it (in a meta way - I think Kylo is a terrible character. I’m not talking about what Kylo deserves in universe).

Satine is a side character. She was fridged for Obi’s story, and secondarily for plot purposes with Mandalore. It was absolutely a narratively appropriate death for her character.

Obi’s death was dead on what beloved characters get in these types of films. It was an honorable sacrifice with a deserving opponent for a noble cause and to teach a valuable lesson to our protagonist. Absolutely nothing like Han’s, and that was his first movie, not his fourth in a franchise that revolutionized the genre.

Solidifying Kylo’s position as a villain was a horrible purpose for Han’s death. Kylo was a garbage villain and immediately woobified. Han’s death was wasted and there was almost no narrative weight given to grieving him. Absolutely none given to avenging him.

 

I cut it off becuse it did'nt really find it relevent to responding to the statment. "Especially this genre?" What genre? Sci-fi? Fantasy? Charecters die in all sorts of ways all across fiction. Not everyone gets a heroic, epic death. That would just be boring - not to mention unrealistic - and I don't really care for such things in my stories.

The point is the still did'nt deserve their deaths.

I think, will all due respect, that this is'nt so much a case of the charecter actually, definatly deserving more, but you personally thinking the charecter deserves more and feeling robbed.

I guess you missed the parts were Chewbacca immedatly shot Kylo, Rey and Finn fought him, Leia reacted with shock to his death, Rey was still so upset about his death that next time she "saw" Kylo she tried to shoot him on sight and Luke was all horrified when he relized Han was dead.

What, did you want see everyone standing around mouring him and talking about how much they missed Han? We did'nt get that for anyone else, so why Han? - hell, we actually got more for Han then most peaple in the francise, as his murder countiues to hang over the rest of the ST. Qui-Gon is barely brought up after he died, Luke never brings up his aunt and uncle agian after he agrees to join Obi-Wan and the "morning" for the latter is just a like, a couple of seconds of Luke and Leia at table without Han giving a crap.

 

Well if you don’t think it’s worth responding to, ignore the whole point. Don’t cherry pick to remove my actual point lol.

Sci-fi/fantasy, yes. Gandalf has a spectacular “death.” Many Star Trek fans hated Kirk’s and felt it was beneath him. Mace Windu - totally awesome death. Dumbledore - meaningful sacrifice.

I’m talking about the meta narrative, not what characters literally deserve in-universe.

I’m not talking about the immediate reactions. Han’s murder by his own son’s hand warranted long term, significant consequences. There were none.

Luke “was all horrified” lol??? Leia “reacted”? Well then, you showed me. Blink and you miss those moments, but yes, after he died, the camera cut away from Luke and Leia in turn... looking.

I wanted narrative weight and consequences, otherwise it shouldn’t have happened. Han =/= Luke’s aunt and uncle. He’s a beloved, important character. They were fridged for Luke and that was fine. As far as Obi, he’s in ESB and RotJ, so he continued to be important. Was Luke supposed to mourn him while having casual chats with him, or just after? And anyway, Luke learned from Obi and was significantly impacted by knowing him and watching him die.

 

I was'nt "cherry picking" i just did'nt reconize it as being relevent to a greater "point."

You know using Kirk's death actually proves my point - hell, Kirk's agruably an even more iconic charecter then Han.

You bring up Dumbledore, but what about Cedric? Or Sirius, who just gets unceramonously killed by Bellatrix popping out of nowhere. Or Tonks and Lupin - whose deaths are'nt even shown. To go back to Trek, what about Tasha and Jadzia?

Agian, IMO, it's pretty boring and unrealistic if everyone gets an epic, meaning death.

That a fair point. Personally, however, i tend to look at things from a narrative and in-universe perspective, not a "meta" one.

You wanted more then you got, fair enough. I was fine with what we got.This seems to be a matter of our individual levels of personal satasfaction with what happened, not the story actually "robbing" or "cheating" Han of anything he "deserved."

 

I brought up Kirk as an example of fans thinking the death was bad because the character deserved better. Kirk’s death was lame.

And no, I don’t think Kirk is more iconic than Han. I think Trek has always been more niche than SW. Han Solo is more recognizable imo to normies.

Cedric the side character? Why are you bringing up anyone that isn’t a Han analogue?

Tasha and Jadzia were both screwed. I still mourn Jadzia especially and how much Terry Farrell was screwed over. Tasha got a redemption death in a really fantastic return episode. I just pretend the Romulan stuff didn’t happen.

K. Han deserves better imo, and better wouldn’t have been boring.

Did I use the words “robbing” or “cheating”? What are you arguing with right now? Of course it’s a matter of personal satisfaction. From get go I said there should be satisfying payoff in stories, unless there’s a good reason not to. So yeah, I still think Han deserved better, and his death wasn’t worth the nothing story it serviced.

 

I said "arguably" - personally I like Han more, but Kirk is a more established, flesh-out charecter whose existed much longer the Han Solo, so I'd say their either equally as famous or Kirk just slightly moreso. And honestly I'd say both would be pretty familier to laymen unfamilier with either series, given how established both are as part of popular culture - or at least that's my experienced.

Why do they need to be a "Han analogue" I'm not looking for "Han analogies" I'm just providing examples of charecters whose death were'nt anything special. The point I'm making is it perfectly common for heroes to die none-epic deaths they did'nt deserve. I don't really see what baring it has on my point if their similier to Han in personality or function or if their main charecters or side charecters, as I think the point is valid either way

Even if Tasha had died on the Enterprise-C would it really a "redemptive death" since that was'nt Tasha Prime? Would that be like saying Kirk Prime got a redemetive death just becuse KT Kirk got an epic death?

As for Jadzia, I was put off as well, but she got six good seasons and ended up living on anyway in Ezri, so IMO all evens out. My biggest gripes in the years since is'nt that she died, but rather the issues surround Ferrell's departure and the fact that only Ezri was featured in Worf's flashback montage in WWLB (though that may have been just becuse he was rembering Dax as one person or becuse of some sort of legal issue with Farrell that kept them from using her likeness)

You did'nt say those, I was just qouting other remarks I've seen elsewhere from peaple that share your view.

Honestly I am really, actually geniunely sorry you don't feel satasfied by what happened, but unfortunally it's bound to happen - you can't ever please everyone, after all. One thing that some peaple love will always be hated by others. I'm sure there are probobly charecter deaths/storyline turns in other works of media that you love and I hate, if it makes you feel better.

 

Just a honest question...

Why is it openly accepted and known among the fandom that Harrison did not like George's take on Han Solo in ROTJ..... And agreed to come back for the ST to be killed off. This isn't really debated..

... But Mark Hamill not liking Rians take on Luke is such a hot and sensitive topic WHEN. RJ himself openly says in the documentary he's grateful to Mark for giving it his all because he knew Mark in his words was "obviously not thrilled"

I just don't see why it's so safe to mention Harisson disagreeing with George and no one gets angered.

To me it's so odd. Like I don't even care if Ford loves or hates SW.

But I do wish he didn't insist on dying. Simply going away or retiring would have shocked me. His death got no emotional response from me other than "Wait.... It's his son who killed him... Uh good luck getting me to embrace Ben Solo as a hero"

 

I don't think either are disputed, and both are accepted facts. The difference is peaple (some peaple) waay overstate Mark's disagrement with how Luke dipicted in TLJ, making him out to seem spiteful and scorned, either to, IMO, validate their bais or support their narrative. For the ways its presented you'd think Hamill hates TLJ and despises Johnson, when actually listening or reading what the man's actually said makes it clear this is'nt the case and he just had disagrements with how Luke was dipicted and was disapointed becuse his expections had laid elsewhere

Well, the problem with that is, when Kylo killed Han, he was'nt supposed to turn into the hero later - which is the root of so many problems surrounding his redemption.