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CT Han Solo's Rescue

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by AEHoward33, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. HolyKenobi93

    HolyKenobi93 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2020
    My problem is that Luke's plan seems to rely too many variables, that he has no control over, coming into play at the same time. What if R2 wasn't on the skiff? What if Leia was executed instead of being made a slave? What if Jabba had used a different method of execution?
     
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  2. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    I'd say when you start going down that particular path then the question becomes what if anything is going to work in any story? We can't know and any movie is certainly not going to show and tell us every single variable that could happen being taken into account.

    If the story had been written to take another path then that is what we'd see instead of what was done. In that case then you could ask "OK if something else happened what would happen then?"

    That is covered in the movie. They know about Jabba's particular preferences there and that is what the plan is based on. His operating mode of spectacle is evident from Han's display to waiting behind a curtain to surprise Leia to the Rancor to the Sarlacc shows he puts on all the way to his music events.

    The question is would having a planning meeting scene with Luke and company beforehand where they go over all the variables and setting up everything for the audience to follow be as entertaining? Can you even explain everything? Even when things are explained people still find more questions.

    If you know R2 has the Lightsaber and that the plan is to get to the Sarlacc Pit then the audience is just going to be impatient to get there rather than watch the events unfold that they don't know but the characters do. It'd be like "Cut that set-up time and get straight to it!" Once the Lightsaber comes out then we know that it's been a plan all along.

    In that respect it's not like the Death Star because that is "Death Star appears and they attack" the set-up to position the Death Star had already happened by the time of the planning meeting on the moon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  3. HolyKenobi93

    HolyKenobi93 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2020
    That's different. I'm not questioning why things play out the way they do, I'm questioning Luke's plan. Good plans do not rely on happenstance. In Mission Impossible, the plans don't rely on the enemy reacting in a specific way to specific circumstances. If Luke's plan relies on getting his lightsaber, he better make darn well sure that it's accessible when he is facing the Sarlacc pit.


    I suppose that makes sense, even if its a calculated risk. But it doesn't answer my other objections.

    I don't want a planning scene before hand, but the plan should make sense as it plays out.
     
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  4. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Pardon the tangent, but that's my biggest beef with TLJ. The plan that Poe, Finn, and Rose come up with is totally reliant on a lot of very unlikely things happening; as they were coming up with the plan I was shaking my head at how unrealistic it was. Honestly, it was almost a relief when it didn't work out as they expected, because that whole convoluted scheme was just the longest shot ever and success would have shattered my suspension of disbelief. Also, I thought that the characters looked stupid for thinking that they had developed a reasonable, workable plan.
     
  5. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    Good point but that is spoken to in the movie since Luke sends R2 in with the Lightsaber in the first place. Obviously it's not spelled out to us by direct detail beforehand but Luke sends them both in. The audience is given seemingly innocuous lines about Jabba's need for droids. The presumption is that Luke and company have information about Jabba not having an interpreter anymore and that they have need for a droid like R2 on the Sail Barge. This is going to be put together by us afterwards of course.

    This speaks to the pre-plan meeting aspect. If they set it out and Luke said "We'll send in the droids as gifts. Lando's given us recon that Jabba needs a protocol droid for an interpreter and they need an astromech droid for the Sail Barge."

    If you are asking what contingencies were there if R2 wasn't assigned to the Sail Barge then we don't know. In-universe the presumption would be they had something like R2 handing the Lightsaber to Lando or R2 sneaking onboard or they knew about some other vehicle that he could steal to get out there. Was there a back-up plan for Lando to leave then use the Falcon to attack the barge if R2 wasn't on there? Maybe but then why not do that anyway?

    I don't know the MI movies well enough to make the comparison from their action adventure to a fantasy adventure like Star Wars. I do recall that they have some plans that rely on people being fooled by mask wearing doubles. What happens if they don't fall for it and see through the mask?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  6. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    Like I wrote, Luke's plan was essentially a con. And a con artist will study their target and work out a plan based on how they're certain the target will react under certain circumstances that the con artist will engineer. They can't predict everything, but they can be ready for the circumstances most likely to happen.
     
  7. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    The fate of Han Solo was such a big deal during the time between Empire and Jedi. It deserved to be ONE THIRD of the movie. Honestly it could have been its own full movie with other Shadows of the Empire style things earlier that would lead to Jabba’s Palace.

    Cutting it down by 1/2 in 1983 would have felt much much too short. As it is the conclusion of the Sarlacc fight is bigger than the conclusion of most movies.

    Posters on here seem to love citing ‘rules of good story telling.’ Im not a fan, but the general rule of thumb is the plans for a future caper in a movie are only presented in the movie so the audience knows when the plan is failing. If the plan goes as it should then no need to reveal it.



    I always assumed that’s part of the plan and not happenstance. Jabba didn’t just happen to not have an interpreter. Luke made that happen. Lando or someone else did something on purpose to the droid so it malfunctioned and Jabba smashed it or something. We see Jabba gets mad at C-3PO taking out his rage over what’s being translated. Lando as the inside man also probably created a spot for R2 on the sail barge.

    And R2-D2 is a sawed off genius. Once he is in the palace who knows what mischief he is causing. The Return of the Jedi Radio Drama has a Star Destroyer stationed over Tatooine to catch Luke. R2 uses Jabba’s computers to issue fake Imperial death warrants on Jabba’s guests and most of the criminals / smugglers on Tatooine in Jabba’s data base. That creates a panic of ships evacuating Tatooine to cover Luke and the Falcon’s escape.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  8. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 13, 2014
    :r2h::c3po::boba::chewie::lando::leia::han::luke::falcon::xwing:
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  9. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    I think it's just bad writing and very few people want to acknowledge it. I've been reading so many excuses about this rescue. But I have yet to encounter an excuse or an explanation that makes any sense to me. I think the whole rescue sequence was an example of poor planning and bad writing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  10. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    IMO you don't need to apologize simply for politely responding to someone who chose to post in a public forum.

    That's a fun little addition, but probably not necessary. The reason the Empire isn't waiting for Luke over Tatooine is because Vader has stopped looking for him for the time being. As per the scene between Vader and the Emperor after the Jabba rescue:

    The implication being that Vader failed miserably at his task in Empire, and as a result the Emperor told him to put the search on hold and focus on the new Death Star instead. At some point in the recent past the Emperor foresaw that Luke would come to them and that it would be better that way, and so it was unnecessary to waste time and energy trying to capture him.

    A lot of stuff in the movies--for example, the topic of this thread--is like this. It actually makes sense if you just reason through it a bit. Lucas and co. really do put a fair amount of effort into making sure the movies are logically consistent. For the most part.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  11. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Agreed. It’s a fun extra not needed in the movie.

    But if we get into the minute details, I think Star Destroyers and Imperial spies watching Tatooine for a Solo rescue helps explains why Luke’s plan needed to be kept small. Like why didn’t Luke as a Jedi lead a team of Rebel commando to infiltrate Jabba’s palace. By the time Jabba realizes what they are their for - Han could already be removed.
     
  12. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    Probably because Han technically isn't an official part of the Rebellion, and as far as the Rebels know couldn't be counted on to rejoin the fold even if he could be rescued. The Rebels are in the middle of preparing for what could be their last stand against the Empire. It's imperative that absolutely everything go smoothly, no resources are wasted, and nothing unexpected happen. It's not the kind of environment where you want to go staging a commando commission against a Hutt cartel boss to rescue someone who's not actually a member of the command structure.

    I imagine that, out of respect for Solo's past contributions to the cause, Luke and the others were given leave to try to do what they could on their own. But the Rebels couldn't pledge any other military resources to the rescue.

    That's just one possible explanation. The other is even simpler: What we saw was the Rebel commando mission. It worked, didn't it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021