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CT Hand on heart; would you have wanted Anakin to die at the end of ROTJ?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by --Stranger--, Sep 25, 2021.

  1. --Stranger--

    --Stranger-- Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Hey everybody

    I was just thinking; through the end of E6, right after Luke defeats Vader (and cuts off his prosthesis hand) , the Emperor offers him (Luke) to slay his father and takes over his (Vader's) position beside him. But since Luke is intent on adhering to the light side (of the force) , he throws down his lightsaber and refuses Palphatine's offer. In exasperation, the Emperor attempts to kill Luke by force lightning. Since Vader doesn't find it in himself to watch his son die, he grabs Palphatine and throws him to the bottomless pit of the reactor shaft. But in doing so, he's exposed to the fatal power current which damages the life support system of his suit, and as an aftermath of the lightning's mortal effect, he dies. After Anakin's (Vader's) demise, Luke burns his body on Endor with a funeral rites in compliance with Jedi traditions.....


    But "what if" Anakin hadn't died, what if he'd survived from the process of elecrocution, what would've been the course of events for the screenplay? :) .And it's not a hard-to-expect possibility of Anakin's enduring to Emperor's force lightning, for : 1) On Bespin, when Han Solo shoots at Anakin (Vader) , he (Anakin) "easily" rebuffs the laser-fires with his hands by the virtue of his suit's durable design. 2) When Anakin raises the Emperor (to save his son) , he grabs him from his waist. The lightning currents do flow from Emperor's hands, and Anakin doesn't contact with his hands while he's holding him.....


    For an instant, let's assume that Anakin hadn't been affected by the current of the force lightning. He'd be alive after he threw Palphatine from the bridge, and he'd flee from the Death Star with Luke before the very station utterly exploded. After their (Luke&Anakin's) escape, Luke'd take Anakin to a planet where he (Anakin) would live a solitary life and redeem himself. Instead of being a ground of solitude, it (the planet) would be a place where Anakin'd have plenty of time to evaluate the sins he'd committed thitherto and have "regeneracy". Much like Yoda, Ben (Kenobi) , and sequel trilogy-Luke Skywalker, he would live a life of self-exile, and Luke would visit him one time or another (much like he visited Yoda in ROTJ).....


    I might give samples of anchorites those seek redemption, from various movies instead of the SW Saga.....In '90-made western "Young Guns 2" (which's a direct sequel produced upon the massive success of '88's "Young Guns" ) , we see a man at the ripe of old age named Brushy Bill Roberts (Emillio Estevez with a heavy make-up) who'd lived a secluded life and who'd already found redemption. In the very beginning of the film, he (B. B. Roberts) meets with an attorney named Charles Phalen and tells him that he wanted to be pardoned for the crimes he'd committed in his youth, with claiming that he was the notorious outlaw Billy The Kid (again, Emillio Estevez :) ) who'd been supposedly shot by Sheriff Pat Garrett - portrayed by William Peterson. Throught the movie, Mr Peterson was appearing VEEEERRRRYYYY CHARISMATIC :) , and his charisma was the foremost element that made the film a ripping yarn.....


    A couple of years after I watched Young Guns 2, I saw Mr Peterson in an action-horror tv series "The Beast". At the time, I was preparing for the university exams, and one day, while I was studying my lessons, I saw "The Beast" on the tv. Mr Peterson was starring in the film as fisherman Whip Dalton, I suddenly went "OH MY GOD!!!!! THAT'S SHERIFF PAT GARRETT!!!!!" :) . I gave up studying my lessons and began to watch the show (The Beast) ; it was SO GREAT to see Pat Garrett as a different character :) .....Oh, by the way, I read Terri White's article about the forthcoming third installment of Young Guns serials in Empire Magazine's 387th issue (under the headline "Resurrecting Billy The Kid" ). Well, I'm already curious about how the movie's going to be. If Emillio Estevez plays the role of the fierce-mannered gunslinger (i.e. Billy The Kid) , it shall be so cool to see Mr Estevez donning the pistol belt as a middle-aged Billy The Kid :) .


    In the very beginning of Young Guns 2, the movie's director Geoff Murphy uses a-BRILLIANT-scene-method. The first character that appears (in the film) is Brushy Bill Roberts, and Mr Murphy shoots him from afar. Until-a-certain-point, Mr Murphy makes the audiences think that it was the period of Wild West. When the elderly man (meaning B. B. Roberts) sits at the edge of a stockade, we see an articulated Lorry passing by (at 00:02:08) and realize that it was not the Wild West era, but the year 1950..........In fact; 5 years before the release of the film (Young Guns 2) , Robert Zemeckis uses-the-same-mold of that method in the first installment of the Back To The Future Trilogy. Towards the end of the (first) movie, right after Doc Brown (Christopher Lloyd) sends Marty (Michael J. Fox) to the year 1985 with suffering extreme hardships, he's over the moon; yelling and making a dance of happiness. Then, Mr Zemeckis shoots-Doc-from-a close angle. Doc Brown stares at the clock tower with a smile, the-camera-shows-the viewers the clock at the edge of the building (at 01:37:30). For-a-brief-instant, we assume that it was still the year 1955, but when the patrolling helicopter appears (above the clock tower) , we take notice that it was the future; the year 1985.....The difference-those-have-to be paid attention between-the-two-very scene methods applied by Mr Murphy (in Young Guns2) and Mr Zemeckis (in BTTF) is; Mr Murphy's (scene) method lasts-"prominently"-longer-than the one Mr Zemeckis uses. In (the opening of) Young Guns 2; Geoff Murphy makes the-part-that-forms the (scene) method last for-a-bit-more than 2 minutes, but in BTTF, Robert Zemeckis keeps-the-very-section (that constructs his very method) running-for-a-"much" shorter amount of time.....


    At present; I'm watching the 2002-made cartoon "Masters of the Universe", which's a brilliant&improved remake of '80's MOTU. Well, I was going to watch Kevin Smith's recently-made cartoon (Masters fo the Universe: Revelation), but right before I've begun the show, I stumbled upon the full episodes of the 2002-made version (of MOTU) on Youtube, and started watching it, which's 39 episodes (2 seasons) in total. Even though I watch the 2002 cartoon, I couldn't overcome my curiosity :) , and watched the first two episodes of the new MOTU series. It was good in general; Mr Smith'd stepped away from the monotonous cliches such as "good guys are always angel, bad guys are always fiendish" and "good dudes never-ever loose, they always save the day". It's a great show, nevertheless, the fans' reviews (about the show) on social media were so negative. Ok, it might not be as "effectual" as the previously-made cartoons, but it wasn't bad either. For the ones those'd watched it (the show) ,I STRONGLY do recommend them to behold Laura Legends' video about the very series on Youtube. You may reach it (the video) by posting "Female He-man Fan Reviews Masters of the Universe: Revelation *SPOILERS" to the search box (of Youtube) ,which lasts for 16 minutes. Comparing to the MOTU fans' reactions, Ms Legends' comments (on MOTU: Revelations) are rather equanimous. She (Ms Legends) luminously sums up the plot of the first five episodes, which're the only episodes those'd aired on Netflix thus far. I liked Ms Legends' video a lot, but I don't agree about her opinion; that the scenario (of the show) had to be as same as the previous cartoons. If its screenplay'd have gone parallel to the former ones, it'd be just a "usual, ordiary" He-ManxSkeletor-type story.


    IMHO, Mr Smith made-a-wise-move by getting out of the typical things the viewers saw before. In the pilot episode; He-Man&Skeletor die (but, of course, they shall eventually come back :) ) ,Man-At-Arms is expelled from the kingdom (of Eternia) ,Teela decides to leave the palace and becomes a mercenary.....While I was watching the first two episodes, I never complained about the show, but it'd have appeared "more" eye-pleasing if the style of its-drawings-stood-closer to the 2002-made cartoon. As I've said above, I only watched the first two episodes, and I don't want to watch MOTU: Revelation until I finish the 2002-made series, but I could tell that the massive "tremor" Kevin Smith'd made in the story perhaps shall be the forerunner of better things those're about to come, and when the viewers see the later episodes (the ones after the fifth one) ,they shall maybe make them (the audiences) say "the things HAD TO BE the way as they were on the first episodes".....Altough I didn't watch episodes 3, 4, and 5, I am already hipped on the course of events of the show :) ...............


    Much like MOTU: Revelation, I'm also anxious to watch the 4th season of the hit tv show Cobra Kai. At the end of season 3, when we lastly left the show, Robby (Tanner Buchanan) was tempted by the dark side of the force :) and joined Cobra Kai by siding with Kreeze, Johnny&Daniel decide to cast their rivalry aside and join forces by uniting their students below the pubis of Miyagi-Do......I watched the teaser trailers of S4, the first one was showing Terry Silver (Thomas Ian Griffith) ,and it was so good to see Mr Griffith after so many years :) .The latter one (t. trailer) was showing the other Cobra Kai characters including Samantha Larusso (Mary Mouser) ,and she was appearing very comely with the karate gi.....Ever since I first saw her, not even a day went by that I didn't think of Ms Mouser, ever since the instant I fell for her, my life has never be the same as it used to be.....I became prisoner of a few pleasantries those shall pour from her lips.....She's the "one and only" mistress of my heart, and I'm mesmerized, desperate, and "shackled" before her beauty.....Ah, the tough girl of Miyagi-Do is consistently tormenting my soul with her glittering, blue eyes..............................









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    Oh dear, it's raining, and I forgot to take my umbrella, I'm out of luck!!! Let's bless this day while I'm saluting Samantha Larusso with this track of Sweden rock ;) : Templars of Steel - Hammerfall

    Hammerfall 2000 lineup : Joacim Cans - lead vocals ||| Oscar Dronjak - guitars, backing vocals ||| Stephen Elmgren - gıitars, backing vocals ||| Magnus Rosén - bass ||| Anders Johansson - drums
     
  2. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2005
    He did die at the end of ROTJ...

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  3. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Vader had to die. He's done too much bad stuff. The Rebels would have demanded he die.
     
  4. Beautiful_Disaster

    Beautiful_Disaster Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2005
    The Rebels might have demanded he die, but Luke wouldn't have allowed them to carry the sentence out. And that would have started a whole other drama because of how respected he is in the Alliance.
    I feel sad at the end of ROTJ for Anakin because his poor choices and naivety led him to lose everything he fought so hard to protect, but mainly for Luke because all of his life he wanted to know his father and then in a short period of time he regained his father, and then lost him.
     
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  5. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    but not at the end of Young Guns 2.
     
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  6. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2005
    In the rebellion eyes, Vader has done very horrible things that can't ve forgiven. Surely Luke who hasn't really known him that well would understand that..

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  7. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    That's why you don't have families on juries. :p
     
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  8. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    As I've posted elsewhere, Ani received personal forgiveness from Luke, who understood the temptations of the Dark Side and how far off the right path one can be led. And he received (for want of a better term) divine forgiveness from the Force for his acts of repentance and self-sacrifice, allowing him to go to Light Side Heaven rather than Sith Hell.
    But there's no way he'd have received official forgiveness from the New Republic. He committed terrible crimes, with the full knowledge that they were just plain wrong. And, while he'd received some recompense for his acts (amputation, electrocution, immolation, lasting disabilities), he would still need to pay dearly for his evil works. It would surely warrant death, and I think Ani knew it when he grabbed Palpatine and tossed the tyrannical so-and-so to his doom. Better to die trying to do something good, than try to run away from justice. While there may have been ways to do it without receiving fatal injuries, I doubt Ani would've tried them. The books had to be balanced, and his death was the only way to accomplish that. His spiritual redemption was an unexpected, unwarranted act of grace.
     
  9. Drac39

    Drac39 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Anakin could only be redeemed by giving up his life. If he had lived he wouldn't have payed a penance for his crime
     
  10. --Stranger--

    --Stranger-- Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Ok, perhaps Anakin had to die, but my true purpose for opening this topic was to start a debate as to what would Anakin do "if" he'd survived Palph's elecrocution, and (after he fled from the Death Star) it wasn't a "must" for him to surrender himself to the rebellion.

    As I'd written above, he could've settled to a far-off planet where he could live an eremitic life and collect his thoughts (much like his son (Luke) had done in the sequel trilogy). Instead of being a ground of circumcision, it'd've been a place where he could hide from the New Republic, as well as Yoda had hidden from the Emperor on the swamp territory of Degobah in OT.....
     
  11. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2005
    I don't think Anakin would have hidden himself. Likely he would accept that he had done terrible things and leave his fate to what the New Republic wants..

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  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Host - 11X Wacky Wednesday Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In ROTJ Infinities, Vader and Luke and Leia escape the destruction of the second Death Star together, with Vader being redeemed without being mortally wounded. However, Palpatine escapes too - and Vader offers his services to the Rebellion for hunting down Palpatine.


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  13. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    If Vader is hiding from justice he's not really redeemed.
     
  14. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Yeah, good luck on Luke having to justify to the Rebel Alliance, Leia and Han about them sparing a guy he barely knew as his father just because some mystical ebergy called the force says so..

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  15. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I feel like he had to die as part of his redemption. I agree with what Christophero30 said.
     
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  16. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2021
    Anakin death works so good because it provide the sense of justice for his crimes as Darth Vader. The audience is moved to see Anakin finally sorry but he can not get away with his evil deeds either.
     
  17. Scoffed-Gherkin

    Scoffed-Gherkin Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 11, 2021
    Yes. Anakin had simply done too many horrible things, committed too many atrocities. There would’ve undoubtedly been a Nuremberg-style war crimes tribunal for him had he lived, so I think death was truly his best option.
     
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  18. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    The only reason anyone might have for Anakin not dying is his death is so sad for Luke, the quest he set out to achieve was only partly accomplished. He brought Anakin back to the light but the cost was Anakin's mortal body...
     
  19. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    It works extremely well storywise, character-wise, theme-wise, in fulfilling this story of Anakin's fall and redemption. It's just the easiest solution to the question of Anakin's fate.

    Is it the only thing that could've worked? That's hard to say, but Anakin living past RotJ is certainly interesting in a "what if" fanfic kind of way. I don't think going the route of bringing in Republic justice and political stuff would be the way to do it; it wouldn't really serve a purpose, and honestly, it just sounds boring. A lone wolf Anakin sounds more feasible. I mean, why keep him around if he's just going to be executed or imprisoned?
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
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  20. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Yeah his arc's over. If he shows up at the bonfire, the Ewoks roast him anyway.
     
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  21. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    It was appropriate that Anakin died, rather than fizzle out in prison or be executed, or have what he had done to destroy the Sith completely forgotten about, as the New Republic would surely have focused (rightfully) instead on all of the atrocities he committed over two decades.

    Sure, he helped the Rebel Alliance achieve victory, but he also was partially responsible for making all this happen in the first place.

    Either way there's no way he would be allowed to simply be told "all's forgiven" and allowed to just go on living a peaceful life with his family. It would have been a much more sad ending for him. Instead choosing to return to the light after all those years in anger and pain he died, destroying the Sith, saving his son and helping to redeem the galaxy from the Empire with his final act. Feels much more fitting, at least from a storytelling point of view.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
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  22. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 2, 2020
    Anakin had to pass away, there was an inevitability about it. It was nice to see the force ghost at the end of Jedi. Dont get me wrong Darth vaders/Anakins death hit me hard but it had to happen.

    What might have been cool is if Anakins force Ghost had appeared to Leia in TFA or appeared to Kylo to try and reason with him considering how obsessed he was with him. The fact he didnt was a strange one. Wouldve tied the story together if Hayden had filmed some scenes.
     
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  23. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    I figured Ani's ghost could try to get Kylo/Ben back on track, but K/B would be the only one who could see or hear him. So, you've got all these FO officers watching their new Supreme Leader talking to nothing and wondering, "Are we being led by a madman?" It'd make Hux's betrayal more understandable.
     
  24. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 2, 2020
    Hux just didn't like ren and wanted him to fail. Jealousy maybe. It definitely would've been a reason to betray him if it looked like ren was nuts. It would've been cool to have seen Ani speak with ren and maybe leia
     
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