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Senate Has Cancel Culture Gone Too Far?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Punk , Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    if radical feminist critique of trans culture is wrongheaded, and it very well may be, does that mean that you wholeheartedly endorse cancel tactics to silence that critique and also if possible capsize the career of any person who makes that critique? I'm just asking, because I don't endorse the critique, but I really like the art of this particular person and I dislike that she has suffered professionally for making the critique. Maybe she really deserves it. I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  2. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    TERF ideology isn't a "critique" of a "culture" - it's hate speech.
     
  3. CairnsTony

    CairnsTony Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 7, 2014
    Yeah, I see transphobia as really no different than racism, homophobia etc.

    I had such high hopes in the 1980s when leaving school...
     
  4. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    Transphobia within cisgender women circles is one of the worst forms of hypocrisy - these cisgender women do not want to face gender-based discrimination in society (and they shouldn't!) but then turn around and contribute to the oppression against one of the most vulnerable groups in society.
    Everyone should be free to express their gender identity in any way they see fit without the fear of ridicule, discrimination, harassment, or facing physical violence as a result, period.
    And yeah, some cisgender butch lesbians sometimes also experience bad treatment in heteronormative spaces, it's not just affecting TGNC-identified individuals.

    Here's a great op-ed on how feminists and trans people can and should work together to fight systems of patriarchal/heteronormative oppression.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  5. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    I can see why no meaningful discourse occurs. People who view each other as existential threats aren't going to iron out their differences. The analogy to racism and homophobia seems fair. If you're convinced that you're trying to stamp out hate speech, then why would you think that any particular tactic to stomp it would be out of bounds? I get it.
     
  6. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I think those responses miss the substance of his question.

    In the first place, it depends a lot on what's being said, as none of us but him actually know what this person has said. In the second, I think the question is more whether is the best way to deal with these attitudes. A boycott makes a lot of sense for large corporations or nations who are so remote from the community that you can't grab their attention except by threatening their income stream. I'm not as confident it's the most effective tactic for one's literal neighbor whom you could just talk to.
     
  7. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    As indicated in the previous post, there is no reason that feminists and trans people can't work together towards a common goal. Cisgender feminists can and should try to be good allys to the TGNC community - more can be achieved when working together to take down the patriarchy

    Addendum: in the US the government can't stop you from saying controversial things (with a few limitations on protected speech) but you also have to deal with the consequences. So exercise your right to freedom of speech responsibly.

    Look at the CEO of Goya Foods, he thought it was a good idea to praise a person who is absolutely anti-Latino and now there's a nationwide boycott of Goya products....
    #Goyaway
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  8. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    That’s totally separate from what he’s asking.

    He’s not asking to explain how people should behave. He’s not saying it should be illegal to criticize someone if you think they’ve misbehaved. He asked what the ideal response should be.
     
  9. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    It's a difficult question without more specifics. I don't know a thing about this friend of his, can't Google her, can't get a firm grasp on just how problematic her stance might be, how hurtful her comments may have been to those who felt targeted by her, etc.

    Since we can't go into specifics, we can only speak about generalities. And, generally speaking, I think if people are fighting back against systems of oppression, they should do so to the fullest extent allowed by the First Amendment. Just, you know, keep it a peaceful, lawful protest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  10. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    If a TERF is your personal friend, MAYBE you can pull them back from the ledge and get them to change their ways. Maybe. But that won't be happening over social media.

    If a TERF is a famous author who is using her platform to bully trans people unabashedly, and is influencing others to do the same.... A boycott of that person seems a totally reasonable response.
     
  11. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    I think a good rule of thumb is, don't hate on people who are less privileged than you are. That always looks bad.

    Look at Trump, I mean, he's a rich white cisgender guy, so pretty much everyone he's ever attacked publicly (with the possible exception of, say, Jeff Bezos) is by definition less privileged than he is, and that's what makes his attacks so mendacious and odious. He will take on women, people of color, LGBT folks, immigrants, etc.
     
  12. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 19, 2015
    This person is an artist who thinks copyright is an evil capitalist tool of the patriarchy (and she's right!), so naturally she's almost penniless.
     
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  13. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  14. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 27, 2017
    By stimulating and rationalizing discrimination, TERFs hurt trans people. This is the main reason why a severe backlash is needed against them. It's not about not handling disagreement, but rather that they are hurtful, and this cannot be tolerated.
     
  15. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    It's absurd to blame what is still a very tiny minority for perpetuating gender stereotypes anyway.
     
  16. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    And, on another subject, looks like someone has declared war on "cancel culture" [face_rofl]

     
  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Her cart is going to look like Shirley McClain’s cart in Steel Magnolias.

    “Drum loves pork n beans, eats them with everything.”
    “Well that explains a lot.”
     
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  18. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Daryl Davis

    I think this is a decent argument against cancel culture.
     
  19. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    The thing is, he met those people in-person. As I said, changing an individual's mind that way is one thing. But there's also a difference between some regular poor white KKK member and, say, someone with power and influence who is a dedicated racist spreading that sentiment online.

    Just because it is great to change a KKK member's opinion offline, for instance, doesn't mean that Twitter shouldn't ban KKK hate speech.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  20. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Good for them, it sounds like your friend is a TERF and I get why they didn't want her speaking.
     
  21. Lordban

    Lordban Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Somebody plug a dynamo on Voltaire's grave, please.
     
    gezvader28 likes this.
  22. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    What a weird post from you.

    "My friend is being accused of being a TERF"
    "The points your friend tries to make are definitely terfy"
    "OH YOU'RE SAYING I SHOULD BULLY HER TOO???"

    Also what is "trans culture."
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  23. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Wacky Wednesday Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 10, 2001
    Must be something that was created in response to "cisgender culture" :p
     
  24. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    I don't ****ing care. I'm not interested in defending her position. That was not the point.
     
  25. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Why are you so angry wtf