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ST Has The TLJ novel changed anyones opinion of the Film ?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by PadawanGussin, Mar 7, 2018.

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Has the TLJ novel changed anyones opinion of the Film ?

  1. Yes

    17.5%
  2. No

    77.2%
  3. Unsure

    8.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    If they were a ventriloquist. Or the dummy. Depending on your point of view. ;)
     
  2. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    This right here is hilarious for its lack of self-awareness in its contradiction

    It’s deniable. I deny it. Nice use of the word “some.” Sure “some” people might have thought TLJ was a wonderful and emotional romance between a prince and a dystopian heroine princess destined to make babies with the prince. See, you can speak for and mischaracterize others en masse by adding the “some people” qualifier. Are these “some” representative of the masses? Nope. It turns out, people all over that explain in detail why they dislike TLJ haven’t missed anything. They get the points the film is trying to make, and they still dislike the film.

    The film can try to make whatever point it wants. People “can” get the point and disagree with it. “Sorry” you’re wrong. People can disagree on fiction. It doesn’t mean they don’t get it. It means some think it’s great, and others think it’s crap, and aren’t opinions what make art interesting in the first place? A person can think Luke is a loser in TLJ based on their own personal value system, even if RJ, based on his personal value system, tried to make the point that Luke redeemed himself.

    I don’t think Luke is a loser in TLJ personally. I think he’s not Luke Skywalker, and changing such an iconic character without any story to explain it is writing malpractice. I get RJ’s YA dystopian formula that he followed, and I think he did a bad job at applying that formula to Star Wars, and I think the formula doesn’t belong in the SW saga in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  3. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Why are you taking a personal affront to something that is clearly not addressed at all dissenters (and then twisting his words to suggest it does)?

    He's talking about people who clearly missed the authors intent when discussing the film. The equivalent of someone seeing "Starship Troopers" and thinking the film is pro-fascist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  4. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    So are we discussing this or are you up in arms because it's being discussed?

    I have yet to understand why anyone thinks that was a good sequel, my understanding it isn't, so was it a good book and does it do a better job than the movie did with that story?
     
    Gharlane and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    For me, Fry tries his best but he can't salvage the central story of TLJ. For me, the success of the book lies in little extra details that both enhance some and reduce other characters. The big success is in hints and pieces of the larger tapestry which links up to a great deal of the other material they've developed and absolutely requires further development.

    The fact is all the main story beats of TLJ are, of course, in the novel. If you liked TLJ, you'll probably like the novel; if you didn't like the main story of TLJ but want to see what else Fry does, as his forte is making all this stuff together, as I did, then it's worth a look if you get it cheap. If you really, really loathe TLJ, it's highly unlikely to change your mind.
     
  6. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    DISCUSS THE FILM, NOT THE FANS.
     
  7. Shadao

    Shadao Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2017
    If by changing opinions of the film you mean from bad to good, then no. Nothing can change my opinions of the film based on what I've read snippets here and there. If changing of the opinions mean from bad to worse, then that's a possible yes.
     
    wobbits and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  8. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Does it include that deleted scene where Finn confronts Phasma or retain what they showed in the movie?
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Lots of deleted scenes and other extras, but it's far more the other extras that are what make the book for me.
     
    Hopeless likes this.
  10. zackm

    zackm Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    That's less of a deleted scene than it is an alternate scene. So, no. It is not on the book.
     
    Ricardo Funes and Hopeless like this.
  11. Jozgar

    Jozgar Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    That’s false. It was absolutely not “misery for the sake of it”. The Resistance had to be on the ropes, or the message of hope and renewal wouldn’t have been nearly as effective.
     
  12. Count Zero

    Count Zero Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Yay, more fighting. zackm, when you finish, would you mind posting a quick review? As i recall, you and I had similar opinions about the movie, so i'd rather hear about it from someone who liked the story wheather or not the book measured up before i shell out 25$ for a hardcover.
     
  13. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    For anyone who enjoyed the film, this novelisation should be deemed an essential purchase.... Unless you don't like the expanded universe concept, as it does a lot with that.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  14. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Exactly.

    Re the novel - I preferred the film. If you like novelisations it's pretty decent and there are some nice additions. It's certainly better than the TFA novelisation, but I think R1 was a bigger step up from the film than the TLJ novel is from TLJ the film (which I think is great).
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  15. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Maybe the message isn't all that effective in the first place when the setup for it is laughably pedestrian and generally unimaginative.
     
    wobbits, Shadao and Gharlane like this.
  16. HaloWithStyle

    HaloWithStyle Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 11, 2015
    Does the novel explain why the first order didn’t speed up or attack the rebels from the front instead of letting them stay out of range all that time?
     
  17. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    What section are you referring to here? If you’re referring to the space chase please see the FAQ sticky posted on this forum as aspects of this were laid out in the film. The FAQ also gets more into the logistics and how short the pursuit really would be in the scheme of a galactic war with victory assured simply by waiting to starve them of fuel.
     
  18. HaloWithStyle

    HaloWithStyle Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 11, 2015
    Yes that part. I was wondering if it was explained in the novel.
     
  19. Harbour

    Harbour Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2015
  20. The Raddinator

    The Raddinator Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Not really. I enjoyed the novel a lot and it brought out lots of little things nicely, and tied them in- but TLJ was already my second favourite SW and that hasn't changed. Of course I don't think TLJ really has any plot holes (As has been nicely shown by the now four solid months of people attempting to find plot holes by completely redefining the term to mean 'stuff that wasn't fully explained to me on screen') so there was far less repair work to do than, say, Stover had on ROTS. I would be very happy to see Fry writing future novels.
     
  21. hermiona52

    hermiona52 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2017
    Interesting. I saw TLJ in my home for the first time and I noticed something that I missed every time (5 times in the cinema) thanks to the novel. In the scene where Ben admits to Rey that he is indeed a monster I always focused on Rey's reaction, who is clearly confused when she hears it. But in the novel it describes:

    She stared back at him - and found his eyes full of hurt. Hurt - and conflict.
    "Yes, I am." Kylo said, and there was no menance in his voice - only misery.​

    And sure enough, it is in a movie and I can't believe I missed it. Adam Driver is truly an outstanding actor. When he says it and looks at Rey's confused face his lip starts to tremble like on a verge of crying. Holy cow, if he is not going to redeem himself in Ep IX, I will be a mess. This book truly captured even the slightest nuances of emotions our heroes feel.
     
  22. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    The interesting aspect of that, too, is that based on what we know of his childhood from the novel it seems he feels his own parents saw him as a monster to cast away because of his anger issues. He's basically trying to become the thing he thinks everyone expects of him, and learning Darth Vader was his grandfather not from his own parents, or Uncle, who could have taught that family failure earlier in life, but from some other source (likely Snoke) likely didn't hurt that journey towards him wanting to become what he thinks he was born to be.

    Knowing how he feels about Rey probably does complicate that scene for him there. The conflict is probably that he knows she has no interest in a Monster but he also feels it's who he was born to be based on his lineage and how he doesn't quite fit into his family and his anger issues and whatever else Snoke has done to help prey on all of that for a long time. So, from that point on he's more focused on and hoping that he can turn her into a monster, and bring her down to his level of misery, by getting her angrier about Luke's initial fear and rejection of her, and her abandonment issues.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    NileQT87, Eternal_Jedi and hermiona52 like this.
  23. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Yeah I think that scene in which he says "yes I am" and Rey's reaction is a turning point. I didn't see it in theater either and I don't know if I will see it whenever I watch the movie again. If it's a turning point, maybe I think it's way too subtle.
     
    Darth Gummybear likes this.
  24. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    [face_whistling]o_O
     
  25. vypernight

    vypernight Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I liked the book overall, especially with the additional scenes, like Rose biting Hux's finger. I kind of wish the Phasma/Finn scene was in the novel, but that's okay. I also found it interesting that Snoke saw the FO as merely a means to an end and that Kylo will probably do the same. Then there's Hux being loved by the younger officers but hated by the former Imperial officers.
     
    christophero30 likes this.