Hate Remarks Towards Lucas Concerns

beign dumb here. Come ever one lets take each others hands and run in the feild. At one point we will come up with something some how some where.

 

George Lucas and anyone else in the (Star Wars) "public eye" should be allowed to be subjected to the same scutiny which society allows for public figures.

Indeed! I agree! He's a public figure, not god.

"How about we twist that argument around on the EU, eh? How about we have a EU Haters thread in the EU Community?"

Newsflash... THERE already ARE/were such threads:
The Official Haters' Community Reincarnation, Mk II
The NJO Critics Club
Mara Jade Critics Club
Mara Jade Hater Club
The Dawn of a Mary Sue.. The Bria Tharen HATERS club.
*****The "Vergere Needs to Get Fried" Club********
You knew it was coming one day...The COPL HATE festival!
Jaina Solo Haters Club
Thrawn Hater Club

More good points by Genghis! I was about to point that out myself, specifically about a certain gusher who condemns bashers yet he/she once had a sig which links to a MaraJade hater club. Should this user be banned from the EU forums just because he/she doesn't like Mara Jade or thinks Zahn is a hack? NO! Their criticisms are valid opinions.

 

And you continue to equate a discussion of one's attitude or approach to the film with: "psychological assessments of other posters".

Go-Mer, if you'll take the time to read the opening post of the thread, you'll see that this thread isn't about attitude or approach to the film, it's about whether GL bashing should be allowed in the JCC. That's what Quix meant be derailing the thread. By bringing that discussion into this thread, you are off topic.

 

George Lucas and anyone else in the (Star Wars) "public eye" should be allowed to be subjected to the same scutiny which society allows for public figures.

I actually agree with this... I think no public figure should be subjected to personal comments and insults and so on. They're public figures, but they're still human beings, and deserve as much respect as those of us who aren't successful in glamorous fields.

 

No disrespect intended but George looks like such a loveable oaf, I don't like the direction he's taken the SW universe in but I feel dreadful if there are posters on these boards that feel the need to personally attack him and his family.
Now Rick McCallum on the other hand.....

 

I think I'd like to say a few things.

I think there is a fine line between suggesting a person's approach may affect how they see a film and suggesting that there is something wrong with a person for not liking a film. Let's look at some of Go-Mer's comments...

He suggested people who don't like Jar Jar don't have a sense of humour.

A while back he literally called people who complain about SW "petty, whiney malcontents".

At one point I pointed out he was being condescending towards me and he replied saying he was aware of what he was doing and "quite enjoyed" doing it.

Now, in regards to the Basher Sanctuary does anyone find it odd that over the last few months, Go-Mer has made it his personal mission to try and rid TPM forum of the sanctuary? Why all of a sudden? The answer is he is bored. Things are slow in TPM forum and so annoying the longtime members of the Sanctuary is something to keep him entertained.

I thin Go-Mer should be able to discuss the way people approach films but he posts on the fine line making his posts insults that he can justify to mods later in case he is threatened with a ban. Basically, Go-Mer is annoyed that he is on such a short leash now and that the most popular thread in the TPM forum is something he is not allowed to post in.

Don't believe any of his long-winded excuses. He has been doing this for years now and deserves the short leash while he continues to try and upset all the posters of TPM forum. I am suprised he hasn't been sent off like True Jedi. Quix has been especially patient.

 

Jeez! I can't believe that this stuff has gone this far!

Now we have people talking about legalities concerning comments made about GL or anyone connected to the SW films?!
I'm sure a court would love to try Jabbdabbado or Go-mer Tonic!

I think people on these boards are taking themselves and the discussions, comments, fights, whatever, WAY too seriously!

GL has made comments in the past about people on the internet that make comments about him and the movies (good or bad), I don't think he really gives a damn! Everyone will be in line for the next SW flick whether you say you hate them or not!
He doesn't care if you bash them, he doesn't care if you gush over them... I'm surprised that he hasn't done the whole Bill Shatner "Get a Life" bit yet! (Actually, that will be added to Ep.3 before the end credits roll! )
I'll bet he thinks that everyone here is probably a "sad" person, they took a good, fun project he worked on 25 years ago, and have blown it all out of proportion!

I think that anyone that feels that they have to defend a friggin' billionare from a bunch of "normal" people that post on a website with "silly" names needs to get their head examined!
People talk crap about Bill Gates, where's HIS defense thread?!
Osama Bin Laden hasn't been tried in court, where's HIS defense thread?!
What are THEIR RIGHTS?!
(Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it?)

If I say something derogatory about GL, do you think that I'm sitting here thinking that GL is reading it and I'm really "putting it to him"? He's gonna change the movies because I made 5000 posts on TFN complaining about them?

Do you think if I call someone out about their "bashing" of GL or anyone related to the SW films, that will make them change their view and make them fall in love with everything SW and GL related?
GL's gonna add more Jar Jar because I was on TFN defending him and praising his work?

Jeez, people use your head!
If you think that either are true, then you are insane!!

Last comment:
I think that if "bashers" need to go, then so do the "gushers"!
Too many extremes are not good for a discussion. I'm sure a lot of "moderate" fans that like and hate some of the films would be more than willing to see the "fanatics" take a "permanent" vacation!

I think that the "Bashers" & the "Gushers" need to admit that they don't fight out of love/hate for SW, they do it out of a need to amuse themselves.
I think the topic could be food and we would see someone "bashing" pizza and another person "gushing" over it.
I don't think it's a question of topic, I think it's a issue of personalities and a way to get your kicks without hurting anyone's feelings or anyone physically.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I think it's stupid to drag "basher/gusher" fights all over the boards... what's next?

A "basher/gusher" fight on the Fan Art board?
Fan Films? Informational Threads?

 

I must have been hitting people close to the mark for them to hate me so much.

I honestly wouldn't want to "get rid" of anybody.

I just think that any thread that is exclusionary of people with different opinions is BS.

If you want to come to a TPM fan forum and complain about the movie, you should have the fiber to be able to handle opposing viewpoints.

Bashers have no problem shoveling judgements out about the film and it's creator and even the people who like how things are going in the prequels, yet they suddenly start crying when someone else suggests they were a tad hastey in making their knee-jerk opening night judgements.

Ohhh, it is so unfair for Gomer to suggest I don't have a sense of humor for being INSULTED by Jar-Jar Binks. If George didn't mean to insult me, then he should not have dared to include a stepping in poop or fart joke.

Ohhh it is so unfair for Gomer to suggest I have changed since I first took in the classic trilogy. Everyone knows it was Lucas who changed on US!

Ohhhh it's so insulting for Gomer to suggest that Jar-Jar was meant to be a lightning rod for intolerance. How could -I- be intolerant? I just wish Jar-Jar never existed is all...

Doesn't Gomer realize the way I judged this film has to be George Lucas' fault? Our crap doesn't stink. We never make mistakes.

I say let the bashers stay, but for the love of everything we are fans in the first place for let me stand up for that which they malilgn.

 

Nahh! Your name would just sound funny being used in court and on court documents!
"Mr. Go-Mer Tonic, how do you plead?"

Of course, I'd love to see a judge/attorney pronounce "bjbrickm" or use the names "Duckman" and "Tokyo Extreme"!

 

I don't actually care what GL thinks or doesn't think of what we say about him. I care about what kind of atmosphere we have in a perfectly legitimate social group. Is it an atmosphere where bullying is rampant, or is it one where courtesy is expected? I don't care how important or trivial the subject matter is; I care about whether or not we are treating our fellow creatures with the respect they deserve. My concern about Lucas isn't about how it makes Lucas feel--it's about the fact that he's a human being, and how he is treated matters in the grand scheme of things, even if he never finds out about it.

 

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I think it's stupid to drag "basher/gusher" fights all over the boards... what's next?

What do you mean what's next? I was under the impression that there is a REAL problem that we're trying to resolve. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone thus far (though I do have things to say on the matter), but for those of you who are apparently disgusted with how this thread has turned out: have you truly considered the alternative to mods and forefront members trying to reach an understanding in this?

Just guessing here, but it might look something like a real fight. Possibly even between mods. Bannings. Bannings repealed by disagreeing mods. Or... worse.

Perhaps some things should be untwisted and allow the pursuit of a working concensus to be reached without continued comments from others about how awful this is.

And as far as me adding anything, I think I'll hold off so that the mods and people they wish to have involved can hash this out. Very likely, what I'd have to add would be a rehash of what several very capable folks on both sides have said (since I'd be something of a moderate).

 

Go-Mer...
"I say let the bashers stay, but for the love of everything we are fans in the first place for let me stand up for that which they malilgn."

There's nothing wrong with you doing so as long as you keep this in mind. Do, I think your posts have done that? No, not really. I think you exhibit a biased, one-sided account which does not at all respect the opposing viewpoint. But, I shouldn't single you out. The same thing is exhibited by any number of people on either side. And that's the problem.

If some day in the future, we all find out that Sanctuary threads are no longer needed, then we should all rejoice that everyone's opinion is being respected and fandom is "whole."

Until such time, and while people are still being disrespectful as a group, to other groups, then the sanctuary threads are by nature going to be acting as a sanctuary.

They are an imperfect solution to an imperfect situation. But, the perfect solution and the perfect situation can only come from fandom as a whole, shaped by all of our actions - including George Lucas and those of his relatives he may choose to put in Star Wars movies.

 

I am sure that I can come off as disrespectful at times, but that is all I ever hear from these guys is disrespect for George Lucas, and that is what this thread is about isn't it?

The reason I get a tad on the sharp side is because some of these guys have no sense of decency about it.

I am really getting sick of them being able to hide behind the "well Lucas is a public figure" crap, and then turning around and banning me for simply turning the tables on them.

I guess they don't like being disrespected.

If that is the case, then why oh why can't they see why it is wrong to disrespect Lucas?

 

Go-Mer...
I can understand where you're coming from.

However, the conflict resolution system set up by this site's administration has been to allow certain people the specific right to moderate others' posts/conduct - either through warnings, editings, bannings, etc.

That is, this is not a free-for-all unmoderated discussion forum where you're expected or even allowed to flame people as a routine part of the debate.

If there's something that's getting you so riled up, then let the forum moderators know, and let them deal with it.

 

I'll be honest, I DIDN'T read all 16 pages of this, but made my "Basher/Gusher" comments as a generalizations... I've been around here long enough to know what kind of threads will turn into a argument. Obviously, this one has been or has been brewing one under the surface!

If some smart alec says that "GL should have spent less time downing Twinkies and trying to be the role-model for Jabba the Hutt and more time writing a good script and lines that didn't suck."
I think people would be just as mad that the person said GL wrote bad scripts!
The personal attack really means nothing, yeah, it's in bad taste, but the underlying issue is that people feel that nothing negative should be said about the SW films or anyone that worked on them in general.

I'm sorry, but I think short of actually threatening bodily harm, most personal attacks are rather harmless, they are done for attention or amusement, or even *GASP* to blow off steam!
If someone seriously says they want to kill or harm GL, RM or anyone related with the films, obviously, that is going too far and they should be banned.

If someone says GL is a "big jerk". Big fat hairy deal!
I don't think any is expecting the internet to be a collective of rational or constructive thinking! I mean really, if we did, we would be using our real names and home addresses, etc. we wouldn't be afraid of psycho fans or whatnot. I think part of the appeal of the 'Net is that the "manners" and "rules" don't really apply here as much.
If someone wants to talk SW and they get off on the board activities, they will overlook the negative elements.

I said it before, some people are taking this stuff too seriously.
If they feel offended by the internet or some guy's comments on a SW board, they need to get offline and get back into the real world! Maybe this is God's way of saying "Get over it!"

 

If that is the case, then why oh why can't they see why it is wrong to disrespect Lucas?

This is the major point of the issue as I see it. In an atmosphere where being disrespectful (which is not synonymous with "critical") of Lucas is commonplace, it becomes very difficult to maintain an atmosphere of respect for anyone else, including the person you're talking to.

EDIT: Personally, I think that people who can't blow off steam and have fun without saying hurtful things about others are the ones who need to "Get a life."

 

Ohhh, it is so unfair for Gomer to suggest I don't have a sense of humor for being INSULTED by Jar-Jar Binks.

No, but then when someone counters and says that they loved a movie like Shrek, which is filled with childish toilet humor, and you still tell us that we have lost our inner child, and that you guess Star Wars just isn't for us anymore, then you are being insulting. That's when you have a problem. You seem to not know when to let up and admit that maybe you were wrong about these people.

Regarding the actual topic...I do think it's pretty petty if someone makes a crack at GL's or his daughter's weight, just for the sake of making fun of them. Quite frankly it embarrasses me when I see my peers on the boards resorting to those kind of attacks. I mean, if you can't think of anything else to say, then you have some problems, IMO.

Until such time, and while people are still being disrespectful as a group, to other groups, then the sanctuary threads are by nature going to be acting as a sanctuary.


Good point. Sanctuary threads are useful as long as there are people on both sides of the argument that can't accept the fact that someone else has a differing opinion of a movie or book (or set of books) as them, and thus for some reason feel the need to ridicule them about it. I've been guilty of this in the past, just as several of us have. Sanctuaries give us a place to discuss or vent about our dislikes, without (hopefully) having to get bashed and flamed by the other side. Until we move on and discuss these things in a rational manner, respect the other person's opinion, and realize that it is just that, an opinion, then we're just gonna keep going around in circles.

 

Personally, I think that people who can't blow off steam and have fun without saying hurtful things about others are the ones who need to "Get a life."

I agree with this. Beign able to say rude things does not make someone looks smart. If you can't say something with out it begin a hate reamrk or hurtful then it is a problem.

If someone says GL is a "big jerk". Big fat hairy deal!
I don't think any is expecting the internet to be a collective of rational or constructive thinking! I mean really, if we did, we would be using our real names and home addresses, etc. we wouldn't be afraid of psycho fans or whatnot. I think part of the appeal of the 'Net is that the "manners" and "rules" don't really apply here as much.

Yes but with this you really have to watch what you say. Wetaher you use your real name or not is not the point. The point is people want to come a talk aobut SW. But when someone start seeing. Gl is fat, GL sucks, Gl etc, etc. Well there's not much to talk abou there is there. It just becomes one big bashing war between two peoepl one who defends GL and one who does not.

People then start to leave the place because the are not havign fun any more. They did not come here to talk about how fat some one is or how someone sucks. They came to talk about SW.

 

Look, eventually, the negative elements will disappear or they will be ignored.

I want to say one thing, I've seen the discussions between many people here and their opposing parties. I think a lot of that is out of a need to pass time or to amuse themselves, if they have personal vendettas, they need to unplug for awhile!

What makes me sick, is how everyone at one time or another comes off with a very biased opinion of people... do you think that if I quit posting in the Basher's Sanctuary and made "moderate" statements concerning the films, fandom, etc. that I'm not going to have to deal with a person wanting to start something with me because they think I'm still a "evil basher" that's trying to "suck the fun of SW away from them"?

What is the point of me changing my opinion just to get people to like me or not get attacked "within limits"?
I think that eventually, people here will try to create a little SW utopia that doesn't exist!

I think that there are more issues that make these boards unenjoyable than people making comments about GL or his kids!

 

I don't mind negative things being said by the fans.

I just think it has become a one way street where everything "wrong" in the saga is Lucas' fault, and everyting that has gone "right" in the saga is because people were "holding Lucas back".

And another thing I don't understand is the way a large portion of the SW fanbase has become so jaded and cynical that all they can ever talk about are the things that "suck" about that which they claim to be a fan of.

In my opinion, there is as much criticism warranted regarding the atrocious attitude of many fans.

 

You guys call yourselves "bashers".

If someone calls you a basher, you don't have to accept that label.

But you do.

You hang in a "sanctuary for bashers" you refer to each other as "bashers".

How is someone supposed to know you aren't a "basher" when that is how you address yourselves?

 

Sorry, but in the real world people make rude and hurtful comments all the time.
I don't expect everyone to turn into well mannered beings.

People can make rude remarks without them necessarily being childish or in the vein of the Lucas comments.

I have been in many discussions in the past and have been "jumped" by multiple individuals, in an attempt for me to do something that will get me banned, I feel.
Why? I feel my comments are just as valid as anyone else's when I'm involved in a serious discussion.
Those kind of tactics make me mad. It's beyond disagreeing with me, you are trying to silence me because you disagree with me and I won't just "give up"!
That's a bunch of garbage.

 

That is exactly how I feel. Only there is a Mod who can ban me in the group that opposes me.

Quix actually told me that my opinion that art isn't art until someone interperets it was simply incorrect, and repeating it doesn't make it appropriate behavior.

 

What is the point of me changing my opinion just to get people to like me or not get attacked "within limits"?
I think that eventually, people here will try to create a little SW utopia that doesn't exist!

One was saying chagne your opinion. There saying you can say it with out the he sucks she suck he's fat she's fat. You can say it with out saying GL's kids are the reason you don't like SW. Remember this is a PG Forum we have people on here who are as yong as 13. When a person in there 20's and 30's say something about bad about Gl or maybe HC or NP they will start to defend them. Because to them they think your wrong. I think that's something else we should remember. That we have yong teens on here who may not have a lot of knowledga about how to debate yet. They are still lreaning a lot of things.

 

Sorry, but in the real world people make rude and hurtful comments all the time.
I don't expect everyone to turn into well mannered beings.

I don't expect everyone will succeed at all times--everyone has a bad day from time to time--but I would certainly expect an honest effort to be a well-mannered human being! I mean, that's not just here; that's everywhere.