ST Hayden Christensen (Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader) in IX

Anakin wasn't that controversial in the PT. Yeah, some people complained about both actors who portrayed him, but let's not turn this into something it never was. Jar Jar was controversial. Midichlorians were controversial. They can certainly bring Anakin back in a cameo. IMO, it's a real reach for anyone to get upset about seeing Hayden again.

 

What if Hayden as Anakin is in this same crazy Force vision Luke induces for Kylo that includes Han?

What if Hayden doesn't even say anything to Kylo, but I imagine something like the vision starting with Kylo seeing Vader, then the mask explodes or melts off, and it's Hayden underneath, redeemed Anakin, scarred broken and remorseful-looking about all he's done, then Kylo hears Luke's voice talking about the dark side and the light as Anakin's eyes seem to pierce Kylo's soul, then Kylo hears his mother's voice as he watches himself killing his father again, then we flash to Han (new Ford footage) talking to Kylo in the Falcon to end the vision. Kylo snaps out of it in a sweat and Luke's Ghost is there in the room with him when he looks up and frightened and for the first time on screen he doesn't refer to Luke with absolute derision and hate, he simply looks up and says rather inquisitively: "Master Skywalker."

 

That's not my experience with this particular actor and character so I'm not turning it into something it never was. People hate him not just for the PT but because his visage was used to replace Shaw thus "ruining" the OT for them as well. It's controversial enough for them to be complaining about it and him after all this time. Don't believe me? Go take a walk through the PT boards and the OT SE discussions.

 

But... that is officially the canon version of Anakin’s ghost self, regardless of whether or not he appears again - and it has been for fifteen years. It’s already validated.
Hayden IS the young adult live action Anakin Skywalker. There’s no getting around that, so they might as well embrace it.

 

Thing about star wars is that we are at a point now where you either hide from it or you embrace it. if you hide from it then you will be hiding from canon and anything that people don't like for the foreseen future. and not just the PT but anything Disney make going forward, including TLJ.

Apparently at Celebration Hayden was taking photos with fans all day, collider claims it was ways over 500 and closer to 15,000. whether thats true or not, who knows.

But at the same time hayden doesn't deserve special treatment and from the look of it neither does Luke.

 

Yep. There was already hate because Jake and Hayden ruined Darth Vader for some people, but adding him to ROTJ as a young ghost made lots of people angry. Saying Hayden in ROTJ is not controversial is like saying Greedo shot first is not controversial.

Even on the SW Twitter, there were lots of people mocking and refusing to give Hayden a Happy Birthday.

 

Yes, regardless of him only being an actor in a sci-fi fantasy franchise I don't think "controversial" is too strong a word.

This is the same fanbase (that includes some members) that negatively affected Jake Lloyd's mental health growing up, almost drove Ahmed Best to suicide over Jar Jar, basically pushed George Lucas to cynicism and retirement, and forced Kelly Marie Tran to close her social media accounts.

It is kind of naive to think some people won't react.

 

I agree and it SHOULD be but they can work around it by avoiding it in film and saving it for a comic. It won't be too hard to make an excuse why Anakin can't show up even if the writers dont wanna think about Hayden. Kind of like how they got around Han shooting after Greedo in ANH by having him shoot Beckett first in Solo. Not a retcon necessarily, but a way to skate around an issue to some.

 

I feel as if featuring him him in things like the Thrawn Alliances cover (whilst having him in TCW wardrobe) is a way for them to skate around it. As if to say "See? We did include Hayden in this, this and this."

 

Yeah, some people didn't like certain aspects of Anakin, Hayden and Jake. Some people complained about this, and some people complained about that. That's not controversial. Not everyone will like everything. The Ewoks were not controversial, but a lot of people complained about them, too. Different opinions do not = controversial.

 

Why does it have to be, though?

And we also have nothing pointing toward that being different to where JJ was going with it anyway. All we know from TFA is he's been gone for a while, years, and he didn't want anyone (even Han & Leia) to know where he was. So The First Order have been around publically for a year or two, last couple years of Luke being exiled, he hasn't done anything to counter them (surely a guy that powerful in the Force would have sensed the evil building, if he indeed was still participating in the mystic stuff). Combined with him not exactly looking happy to see Rey at the end of TFA, and it seems pretty likely Rian didn't change any of the big picture stuff in terms of that.

 

I actually think that Disney has realized that not only have they underestimated the PT (which I don't get considering the popularity of TCW when they bought the franchise) but they also overestimated the ST. I mean think about it, they have now told us that the ST will mark the end of the Episodic series of Star Wars movies (aka the Skywalker story). If that's the case, why did they even bother to introduce Finn, Rey, Poe, etc to the series if they weren't going to be involved in future Star Wars movies? Disney should have just made the ST focus on the OT characters and not have even bothered introducing new heroes.

 

That's what they are saying now but there is no reason to believe it is anything but marketing and a pause even if it's for a number of years while they see if they can get traction on other movie series. Either way they weren't going to announce X-XII anytime soon.

If that was really supposed to be the case then the whole thing was mishandled from the start because having only one new generation "Skywalker" (while Lucas' stories had at least two, a grandson and a granddaughter who were Solo's) who was already turned to the dark side for unknown reasons before the trilogy began doesn't add up.

Having new heroes is one thing but when none of them are Skywalker/Solo children or at least new Jedi trained by Luke (like Rey should have been in that scenario) then the main through-line of a 9 episode saga isn't there.

At this point to work Rey has to have some actual connection to Anakin that she doesn't have because she isn't a grand-daughter or even a successor trained by Luke. The only option then is making Kylo Ren the "Skywalker" who rises I suppose but that is a task in itself to make any sense of his story as to who he was and why he went to the dark side in the first place and why he would return to the light.

Are they going to say he was a vessel of some kind for Sidious since birth?

 

Well SW fans are unique and unfortunately some can't separate movies from real life. No actor should go trough what Hayden, Jake, Ahmed, Kelly Marie etc went trough. But certain individuals treating them like that doesn't mean they shouldn't be in any of the SW content.

If the story fits who cares what those types of people think. They will never be happy.

 

Agree. Which is why I was so mad at the marketing during TFA. In general, I wish there was more overt references to the PT in the ST.

 

But if they are ashamed of Hayden... why scout around it? if they are so worried about what people have to say... why bother scouting around it?

In the end Disney are gonna produce their own things that fans won't all be won over with... do they hide from these elements? because thats when the universe will start to become a mess if they show any sign of hiding material.

But every trilogy has been about different characters with some pass over happening. the ST really should be no different. its ok that its about a new set of characters.

Although thats not to say they won't produce more material for these characters somewhere or another.

I kinda get it why they didn't have many references to the PT. its because it was very much the jedi era of things and without forcing elements in its kinda tough to find things worth using. so we got like the podrace flag put up and mentioned of a clone army. mentions of the sith. but what else is there really that you could bring back casually from a period over 50+ years

I try not to take the lack of heavy references to heart because sometimes things fit better in our desires then they would in the actual product.

I mean even in the Mandalorian footage thats up. first thing i thought was oh i don't see many PT references here at all... its all OT type stuff... and then i really thought about it and tried to figure out what they could actually include from the PT that would fit in well? and i couldn't think of many things because alot of the grit and dirt of a western tone is very much of the OT period.

 

It doesn't have to be the way I described it. My point is that the way the TFA script was written and how Luke played that last scene in TFA left things wide open for interpretation as to why he was there, what his ultimate reaction to Rey would be and where the story would go from there. Rian wasn't boxed in at all. There were so many possibilities. He happened to chose one possibility that I don't find all that entertaining or fulfilling—certainly not for the length of time it took in the film—so I'm just saying Rian's responsible for where Luke and Rey's story went in TLJ, not JJ. Abrams left an intriguing set up that left multiple avenues to explore.

 

References are references overt or not and since Ren and Rey themselves are references to Anakin himself like distorted mirrors like so many other things it's up to anyone if they want to see it there or not. It's like the Lightsaber or Vader helmet. If someone wants to ignore the context that attaches to them from the PT just like the Jedi, Republic, Empire and the like then they will.

 

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/prequel-references-in-tlj.50047288/

 

It is very hard to say which referenced lore and symbolic mirrors to previous films that we can find, are at all intended on the conscious part of the various SW creators.
Even just looking at Lucas's own films within themselves.
I know for a fact going by Lucas's own occassional comments on the topic that he was doing a lot of it on purpose. But JJ and RJ it is hard to say if they were attempting anything this ambitious with TFA and TLJ, and you also have to remember that it's 3 different minds that are obviously not going to align on most of it.

I feel TRoS is going to intentionally give a lot of content for us to pick apart and use our imaginations with. I'm really looking forward to taking in a nine film narrative if they pull it off. A major part of my becoming a fan was cross-referencing the six films together once the PT was complete in '05. It was a really mind-opening period for me.
But nine relevant films? If they are doing what I hope they are, this is something that has rarely been done on this scale in movies. It is exciting.

I made a relevant TFA thread a few years ago - here.

Keep in mind it came from a place of not knowing hardly at all where things were going. I guess we still don't
And a lot is probably coincidental. But it might open some more discussion.

 

Lol excactly

Sent from my LG-K450 using Tapatalk

 

Please no Hayden. It was awful adding him in ROTJ and him returning in Episode IX would make it worse.

 

I dont find the mention of "clones" or "Darth Sidious" to be on the level of Anakin appearing or seeing the New Republic's function contrasted to the Old Republic, or any evolution beyond the Rebels vs Empire dynamic from the OT.

And mirroring is cool, but having Kylo stare at the sun with a tear falling isn't going to make the ST feel like the spiritual successor to the PT or as the next three chapters in the 1-6 saga. At least, not if Thats their intention.

As Anakin says in Episode III, "I want more!"

 

No matter what you do with Star wars someone won't like it. there is no pleasing everyone no matter what you do.

But then you could have an anakin cameo that isn't what people expect also. just like Luke didn't end up anything like they thought he was gonna be when the ST was first announced.

 

Lol again with the dark Anakin ghost.
I think (and hope) there can/will be both a darker Anakin/Vader vision earlier in the film and later a happier ghost for closure.

I agree you can't please everyone, but lets hope for a movie that appeals to the majority of SW fans, at least on some level for each individual (that it at all works for).

On Luke in TLJ, that isn't really an appropriate comparison Imo.

Anakin had a lot of duality and symbolic significance, the way they changed Luke however was a problem for so many because Luke was always seen as an optimistic character that ultimately triumphed.
With Anakin/Vader there was always that contrast and conflict, it is likely easier to do something unexpected with him.