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Amph HBO's Watchmen

Discussion in 'Community' started by Adam of Nuchtern, May 8, 2019.

  1. epic

    epic Ex Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 1999
    cloning a mother and imparting her with both good and bad memories (after all, that is what a real life is made up of) is morally questionable, okay. but that's it? i mean, she was the one who wiped out all the racists (the true 'baddies' of the show). she was the one who had come from nothing, listened to everyone's pleas for help to Dr M for years whilst he did **** all. if she thought she had a chance of saving the planet through peace, green technology, and tolerance, then i wouldn't have bet against it. Veidt destroyed any chance of that because he seemed to think she would be as narcassistic as he is (he's far more of a 'bad guy' than she is, as evidenced by his treatment of the Adams and Eve's on Eurora), which i saw very little evidence of. and worse, Dr M aided him to do it. Dr M actually comes across as a bit of a little **** in this show, really, coming to think of it. for someone who seemingly loves humanity so much, that he is constantly falling for women, wanting to live like a 'human', he never thought to use his powers to make some actual change in the world? nah, just keep trading older women for new ones. for all his logic, not sure why he doesn't just see love as mere brain chemistry designed to propogate the species (which it is). Lady Trieu got a raw deal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  2. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony JCC Game Winner star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Lady Trieu also created the Dr M phone booths to spy on people to aid in her master plan and the only reason she rescued her father from Europa was that she wanted him to be present when she took over Dr M's powers. Otherwise, she probably could/would have left him on Europa or kept him encased in that gold "carbonite" forever as her trophy?

    I think the audience was supposed to put two and two together, but the whole reason Trieu bought the farm land was because that's where the ship holding her father was crash landing and she needed to own the land to own the ship, right? While it was a really cool scene with her, the farmers, and their child, if she knew, seemingly down to the minute, when the ship was going to crash land, you'd think she'd give herself a little more time? That's the only thing that seemed a little off to me for her character.

    Anyway, the 7th Kavalry may have been a bunch of racists, but she was using that as a red herring just to ultimately collect the material in the old watch batteries, so she could steal Dr M's powers. In the end, she used the 7th Kavalry to just obliterate the leaders (I'm sure there's more 7th Kavalry out there that weren't present at the end, right?).

    So ultimately, what would stop her from using anyone and then destroying them when they're no longer of use? While having Dr M's powers? Nothing. So she needed to be stopped and I'm glad she was.

    edit:
    Do I think Dr M could have/should have done more "good" with his powers? Sure, but it's not for man OR woman to decide what a god should do. IMO that makes Lady Trieu the bad guy as she was trying to play/be god.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  3. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I mean, you don't want someone like Trieu to have Dr. Manhattan's powers. She is a cutthroat. I totally understand why she needed to be stopped.
     
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  4. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Ok, how about this:

    She knew the 7th Kalvery planned to kidnap Manhattan. She let it happen. She could have teleported all of them to jail and released Cal.

    She instead chose to kill him. Despite the fact he was a husband and father of three. She calculated his power was worth his life. She murdered the entire Cyclops leadership, keeping their activity mostly in the dark as opposed to using her celebrity to expose them and bring them to justice. She acted as judge, jury and executioner- because she could.

    These are not the qualities you want in someone with godhood. Manhattan didn’t act- that is very true. And he could have done many things to stop bad acts, but he also perceived time differently. He knew much of the consequences of each action as he took it.

    I think the best example is he knew he would die and he knew Trieu was the one responsible and not the Kalvery. Trieu thought she had his this from him by letting the Kalvery take him. But he knew and sent Will Reeves to forge an alliance with her to keep Angela and the kids safe. He knew exactly what she was doing and he set things in motion to stop her. Adrian going to Europa was likely part of this as well. He could have sent Adrian anywhere or done anything to him. He sent him to Europa and created circumstances that led to Adrian’s return at the exact moment when he was needed to save the world again.
     
  5. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I loved how Adrian was finally sent to jail for his crimes with the Squid attack and the great punchline "The world will end!" "Yeah, people keep saying that but it isn't happening." The Doc/Angela goodbye was uber sad and dramatic, but, I will say there was a wee bit of a part of them that Laurie was right there and I still would have loved to see more of Laurie/Doc interaction as Doc is basically living everything all at once the emotions would be as pure as they were then. So that's the only downside I feel. Senator Keane being exploded was great and Looking Glass having to actually be a part of an alien squid attack when that's what's his trauma is very cool, it was understated but you can see he's like traumatized by actually being a part of what has freaked him out all these years.

    As for if Angela walked on water at the end, I go very literal that you see her foot go a bit into the water that means she isn't walking. And also it's not that important if she walks on water and is Doctor Manhattan because it's the end and it's a shout out to the ambiguous "I leave it entirely in your hands" ending of the original story. I honestly don't think there will be a Season 2, I think Lindeolf will stick to his stated notion that he has 1 season and that's it. Unless HBO really wants more and puts someone else in charge. (also the actor they got for Doc was so good I'd hate to see it without him but, y'know, Doc and time travel all at once so you never know)

    There is however a quote from him about the ending and how, yah, she totes does have Doctor Manhattan's powers

    “I don't want to the person who says like, ‘Here’s exactly what happened if we had let the camera run for another five seconds,‘” Lindelof says. “We chose to cut to black where and when we did for a very specific reason that I don’t really want to interrogate in any real way. Can someone really make a legitimate argument that Dr. Manhattan said all that stuff about the egg and that Angela grabbed that carton of eggs and threw it down as hard as she could yet one miraculously survived? Or that Dr. Manhattan said in Episode 8, ‘I need you to see me on the pool, it's important for later.’ And that then she would just basically splash into the pool and be like, ‘Well I guess I misunderstood what he was going for there?’”

    More importantly, there’s no emotional payoff to Angela being wrong about Cal’s intentions....“I’m not saying that it’s an illegitimate argument that Angela just probably got salmonella and wet hair, but that would be the lamest—a really %$%$ ending.”
     
  6. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I posted this on reddit, look what I got for my wall
     
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  7. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    Watchmen Season Two Is Never Going to Happen Now
     
  8. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I get the feeling HBO might do it anyway but I'm 90% certain Lindeolf is done, he seems to want the TV series to have an endpoint (but slight crack for a cliffhanger) like how the comic has an endpoint (but slight crack for a cliffhanger.) I could have done with a S2 for more Mirror Guy and hopefully finally seeing Dan, though.
     
  9. JEDI-SOLO

    JEDI-SOLO Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2002
    But what about Lubeman dammit!?

    This not getting S2 doesn’t really bother me as it would have such big shoes to fill. Better to go out on the high note.

    Best show of 2019 for me.
     
  10. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I applaud HBO for this. They could have just pushed forward but they respected that this vision only worked with Lindelof. I am sad to not get more, but thankful we got what we did. It's an all time great.
     
  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    So the Watchmen movie is on (which I always liked) and I noticed something early on that is original to the film (like 99% sure) is that Doctor Manhattan tells Laurie "If only you could perceive time like I do." And then zaps her with his powers and she has time viewing power for a brief moment. Which is interesting because the TV show actually does sort of the same thing with Doctor Manhattan transfering his power. Which is something I didn't think Doc could do. So it could have been something they got from the movie. However the movie also has Hooded Justice with a clearly German accent so they didn't use that bit, obviously.

    Also this was interesting that Lindeolf posted



    (I honestly thought it was fan art until I realized otherwise. But it does totally look like a Watchmen comic/episode title)
     
  12. PymParticles

    PymParticles Marquis de Nouveaux Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Watchmen just picked up three 26 Emmy nominations, including:
    • Best Limited Series
    • Best Actress in a Limited Series for Regina King (Angela Abar/Sister Night)
    • Best Actor in a Limited Series for Jeremy Irons (Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias
    EDIT: it has also picked up a crap ton of other awards, I'm just going to include the PDF below, there's no way I'm listing them all

    https://www.emmys.com/sites/default/files/Downloads/72nd-nominations-list-v1.pdf?q=1
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  13. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    So well deserved. Best limited series since Band of Brothers. Hope it wins the lot.
     
  14. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    calling full on watchmen sweep since the "limited series" category seems to be not as competitive.

    Lindeolf posted thanks again and once again reiterated he's done with the story quoting the comic "I leave it entirely in your hands."

     
  15. Mortimer Snerd

    Mortimer Snerd Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2012
    I'm fine with this being the either the beginning (of the sequential story) or the end of an incredible saga. I doubt anyone could carry the Watchmen saga any further, especially in the brilliant way Lindelhof did, but if there's a sharp mind out there with the will to try I'll gladly give it my attention. You know...as a fan.

    I'm a Star Wars fan, I'm totally used to disappointment.
     
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  16. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Doomsday Clock took forever to finish / come in collected editions but I'll check it out as a continuation, I never felt the urge to read the Before Watchmen stuff though.

    Anyway, I think "This Extraordinary Being" is up for a few awards which was pretty fantastic, the Hooded Justice flashback and very in tone with the original comic being flashback heavy and twisting around what little we knew about hooded justice, but as a Watchmen geek my favourite episode remains "A God walks into Abar" because it was basically the Doctor Manhattan issue again (but slightly different).

    I think they could do an anthology Watchmen series but that wouldn't work in a "limited series" capacity because if you're doing Watchmen-verse you have to mention the Watchmen characters. It could be an anthology but it wouldn't technically be a limited series since it references what came before. Also probable Doctor Manhattan powered Angela could be cool but we've seen how Doc's stories end, in tears and eternal looping untethered from time, that could be a bummer.

    I could see more but I think Lindeolf said he also felt like doing just one limited TV series in a way the original comic is a limited series, and I do see the value in that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  17. Mortimer Snerd

    Mortimer Snerd Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2012
    I think I agree with him in the idea that this is something daring and respectful. It's definitely those things. I appreciate his humility in not trying to take it further no matter how bad I want it.