ST Hero’s Journey Aspects of TLJ

This seems more appropriate for this existing thread.

he Dark Knight Rises and The Last Jedi are both widely seen by critics and film geeks as two modern masterpieces surrounding aging heroes who eventually rise for one final spectacular act to inspire the public before passing on the torch to the next generation of hero. I wanted to look at some of the structural aspects that these 2 films share and also where they split apart with differences by design based on different goals. For the purposes of this discussion we’ll focus primary on the aging Luke Skywalker and the aging Batman and focus a little less on Joseph Gordon Levitt’s role and Daisy Ridley’s because there are massive differences of course between those 2.

The setup
At the start of both films the heroes are in exile for years but for different reasons. Batman doesn’t want the public to lose its faith in Harvey Dent and of hope so he selflessly allows himself to be hated as a potential villain. Skywalker doesn’t want to become the next Darth Vader and is concerned over his Dark Side moment and living in denial over it while also feeling ashamed that he has helped to create the next Darth Vader. He’s taking out both of frustrations on the Jedi Order itself and projecting the Skywalker men failings onto the order and wants to end the Jedi Order once and for all.

Early beginnings
Bruce Wayne had become a drunk recluse wallowing in self pity and grief over the loss of Rachel. All that he cares about is crumbling around him. Wayne Enterprises is in plummeting and he’s so off his game that Catwoman steals his fingerprints and sells them to make him look even worse. He’s quit his fusion reactor project because he’s realized villains can weaponize his efforts for evil. Luke Skywalker is a recluse and living out his days at the First Jedi Temple. Despite his initial goal he can’t bring himself to end the Jedi Order. He’s broken over the Skywalker family issues repeating, and the innocent lives lost but he doesn’t have an Alfred because he’s shut himself off not only from the physical world but from the Force itself. He doesn’t know what’s happening in the world, doesn’t want anyone to find him and doesn’t want to put anyone else at risk from actions related to him directly or indirectly. He thinks he’s helping the galaxy by doing this and wishes people understood. Alfred delivers the first Rey-like call to action to Bruce Wayne in a 3 minute scene that Wayne rejects.

The 2nd call to action for Wayne and first for Luke
John Blake is one of only a few who know Batman’s location. He visits the reclusive Bruce Wayne who walks with a cane and seems disheveled and wants to be left alone and is bitter and seems changed. Alfred tells him he can’t see him at all and Blake tells him he’ll get a warrant for the murder of Harvey Dent if he doesn’t. This is similar to the rejection of the saber initially but since no one else is on the island it’s Luke throwing up the first roadblock for Rey instead of Alfred.

John Blake updates him with what’s going on and how his respected ally (Gordon) needs help. He tells him about the masked man on the rise who is taking over. This is like Rey’s update to Luke. John Blake then tells Batman how he’s found him and the similarities they share. Batman doesn’t need to ask who he is because John Blake tells him and relates aspects of his past life that relate to Bruce Wayne’s. Rey to a lesser extent does the same. Tatooine and Jakku aren’t so different and he sees a little of himself in another young person who doesn’t quite feel like they belong. Difference here being that Luke has already tried to help these people with his Temple before and been hurt by it. Bruce Wayne hasn’t. Blake tells him Gotham needs him even if he thinks they don’t. If he had been further in his development as his own hero it could have made sense for the passing of the torch to begin here but he isn’t and it isn’t his story the way it is Rey’s so the focus remains on Batman and the passing of the torch is saved for him in the end.

The second call to action for Luke
Chewie, R2 and Leia become the second call to action for Luke and he agrees to train Rey.

The third call to action for Batman and Luke

Alfred quits and leaves in a final attempt to inspire Luke. Rey quits her training and Yoda appears for Luke’s first elder moment which kickstarts his return.

The villains gain control and leave Gotham/The Resistance in destruction
Self explanatory.

Batman faces Bain. Rey faces Snoke.

Again, a difference here is that Batman doesn’t pass the torch in TDKR until the end. Rey is the protagonist so her big setback occurs here. They both feature second act setbacks. Wayne’s is physical. Rey’s is psychological and tests her ability to see the good in people and stay on the right path[/b]

Final showdown and official passing of the torch

Luke faces Kylo Ren and the FO. Batman faces Bain. Batman’s more of an anti-hero assassin. Luke is more of a monk-like practitioner of defence and non-violence becoming the spark. Both inspire the public for the rebirth that will follow. Blake inherits the Batcave. Rey saves the Resistance and becomes the Last Jedi.

What do you think?

 

Agreed. With the others the arcs continue on through IX.

 

I find myself being unable to agree to the observations in this thread. Here we do have the Hero's journey and all its elements according to the great comparative mythologist Joseph Campbell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey

There are two crucial elements George Lucas wrapped up in Return of the Jedi, i.e.

1. Atonement with the father and
2. The ultimate boon

Campbell describes "the ultimate boon" as
The full round, the norm of the monomyth, requires that the hero shall now begin the labor of bringing the runes of wisdom, the Golden Fleece, or his sleeping princess, back into the kingdom of humanity, where the boon may redound to the renewing of the community, the nation, the planet or the ten thousand worlds.

What ROJ (or its Special Edition) postulates is the end of the Empire (because Vader and the Emperor are dead) and suggests - honoring Yoda's request to pass on what he has learned - the foundation of the new Jedi Academy to "renew".

According to the ST, neither did Luke successfully accomplish one or the other, his hero journey hasn't been fulfilled and all he therefore managed in ROJ was only "atonement with the father".

So ultimately Luke distracts the First Order and buys the 12 surviving members of the Resistance time to escape in TLJ. To call that "the ultimate boon" sounds like an exaggeration to me, if not even a euphemism.

 

We're firmly in the Return phase of the journey with Luke in TLJ.

I don't know why people keep ignoring or refusing to acknowledge this.

Fans of the film who keep highlighting the standard stages we've already seen Luke undergo are not helping the debate on this front either, nor are those who claim TLJ is subverting the Hero's journey. RJ is not doing that, just as he is not suggesting the correct philosophy is to kill the past.

I've bolded out the most relevant parts that reflect Luke's arc in TLJ.

Hopefully the links to TLJ are self-evident. If you need me to draw clear parallels to the relevant beats along Luke's journey let me know, and I will do so.

Far from ignoring the Campbellian tropes, RJ gives us a stage we've not seen before in SW and rarely get to see in the standard exploration of the hero's journey.

Return

Refusal of the Return

Having found bliss and enlightenment in the other world, the hero may not want to return to the ordinary world to bestow the boon onto his fellow man.

Campbell: "When the hero-quest has been accomplished, through penetration to the source, or through the grace of some male or female, human or animal, personification, the adventurer still must return with his life-transmuting trophy. The full round, the norm of the monomyth, requires that the hero shall now begin the labor of bringing the runes of wisdom, the Golden Fleece, or his sleeping princess, back into the kingdom of humanity, where the boon may redound to the renewing of the community, the nation, the planet or the ten thousand worlds. But the responsibility has been frequently refused. Even Gautama Buddha, after his triumph, doubted whether the message of realization could be communicated, and saints are reported to have died while in the supernal ecstasy. Numerous indeed are the heroes fabled to have taken up residence forever in the blessed isle of the unaging Goddess of Immortal Being."

The Magic Flight

Sometimes the hero must escape with the boon, if it is something that the gods have been jealously guarding. It can be just as adventurous and dangerous returning from the journey as it was to go on it.

Campbell: "If the hero in his triumph wins the blessing of the goddess or the god and is then explicitly commissioned to return to the world with some elixir for the restoration of society, the final stage of his adventure is supported by all the powers of his supernatural patron. On the other hand, if the trophy has been attained against the opposition of its guardian, or if the hero's wish to return to the world has been resented by the gods or demons, then the last stage of the mythological round becomes a lively, often comical, pursuit. This flight may be complicated by marvels of magical obstruction and evasion."

Rescue from Without

Just as the hero may need guides and assistants to set out on the quest, often he or she must have powerful guides and rescuers to bring them back to everyday life, especially if the person has been wounded or weakened by the experience.

Campbell: "The hero may have to be brought back from his supernatural adventure by assistance from without. That is to say, the world may have to come and get him. For the bliss of the deep abode is not lightly abandoned in favor of the self-scattering of the wakened state. 'Who having cast off the world,' we read, 'would desire to return again? He would be only there.' And yet, in so far as one is alive, life will call. Society is jealous of those who remain away from it, and will come knocking at the door. If the hero. . . is unwilling, the disturber suffers an ugly shock; but on the other hand, if the summoned one is only delayed—sealed in by the beatitude of the state of perfect being (which resembles death)—an apparent rescue is effected, and the adventurer returns."[12]

The Crossing of the Return Threshold

The trick in returning is to retain the wisdom gained on the quest, to integrate that wisdom into a human life, and then maybe figure out how to share the wisdom with the rest of the world.

Campbell: "The returning hero, to complete his adventure, must survive the impact of the world. Many failures attest to the difficulties of this life-affirmative threshold. The first problem of the returning hero is to accept as real, after an experience of the soul-satisfying vision of fulfillment, the passing joys and sorrows, banalities and noisy obscenities of life. Why re-enter such a world? Why attempt to make plausible, or even interesting, to men and women consumed with passion, the experience of transcendental bliss? As dreams that were momentous by night may seem simply silly in the light of day, so the poet and the prophet can discover themselves playing the idiot before a jury of sober eyes. The easy thing is to commit the whole community to the devil and retire again into the heavenly rock dwelling, close the door, and make it fast. But if some spiritual obstetrician has drawn the shimenawa across the retreat, then the work of representing eternity in time, and perceiving in time eternity, cannot be avoided" The hero returns to the world of common day and must accept it as real.

Master of Two Worlds

This step is usually represented by a transcendental hero like Jesus or Gautama Buddha. For a human hero, it may mean achieving a balance between the material and spiritual. The person has become comfortable and competent in both the inner and outer worlds.

Campbell: "Freedom to pass back and forth across the world division, from the perspective of the apparitions of time to that of the causal deep and back—not contaminating the principles of the one with those of the other, yet permitting the mind to know the one by virtue of the other—is the talent of the master. The Cosmic Dancer, declares Nietzsche, does not rest heavily in a single spot, but gaily, lightly, turns and leaps from one position to another. It is possible to speak from only one point at a time, but that does not invalidate the insights of the rest. The individual, through prolonged psychological disciplines, gives up completely all attachment to his personal limitations, idiosyncrasies, hopes and fears, no longer resists the self-annihilation that is prerequisite to rebirth in the realization of truth, and so becomes ripe, at last, for the great at-one-ment. His personal ambitions being totally dissolved, he no longer tries to live but willingly relaxes to whatever may come to pass in him; he becomes, that is to say, an anonymity."

Freedom to Live

Mastery leads to freedom from the fear of death, which in turn is the freedom to live. This is sometimes referred to as living in the moment, neither anticipating the future nor regretting the past.

Campbell: "The hero is the champion of things becoming, not of things become, because he is. "Before Abraham was, I AM." He does not mistake apparent changelessness in time for the permanence of Being, nor is he fearful of the next moment (or of the 'other thing'), as destroying the permanent with its change. 'Nothing retains its own form; but Nature, the greater renewer, ever makes up forms from forms. Be sure there's nothing perishes in the whole universe; it does but vary and renew its form.' Thus the next moment is permitted to come to pass."

 

There are structural similarities between the phases themselves to be clear and both can be built around traditional 3 act structures for that reason.

What makes Luke’s journey so interesting is that it works structurally for people who are coming to Star Wars for the first time in this ST and who associate this more as his beggining for them personally.

But great points there, @Sapito , and you’ve opened my mind up with those examples provided because those examples are clearly more aligned with specifics that Campbell studied in myth involving characters who’d reached Luke’s heights and you’re absolutely right that they better align to where Luke is at for all who experienced his earlier arc with him.

 

It's important to note that the 'Return' is often a more personal journey, and is basically the hero struggling having attained the boom (which was becoming a Jedi for Luke, not rebuilding the Jedi order).

Now the ST isn't primarily Luke's story, so it's natural that we don't see all the steps of the Return, but we certainly see the last couple.

The Crossing of the Return Threshold: This is basically Luke's journey to restore the Jedi since it's all about reintegrating with the world and passing on your knowledge attained. He fails with Kylo and, eventually, at least preliminarily, discovers how to pass on what he has learnt with Rey. Luke struggles with passing on his knowledge because he wants to do it without passing on any of his failures, which perhaps inevitably, can't be done. Ultimately he learns that he must accept that passing on his on his mistakes is part of this process and inevitable, and accepts. This stage takes place between the time he starts rebuilding the Jedi and when Yoda talks to him in TLJ.

Master of Two Worlds: This stage is practically shown. Luke is literally walking between the spiritual world (Arho-To) and the real world (Crait) while being in both places at once. He is comfortable with his previous struggle of passing on his failures and has found purpose, peace and transcendence and is therefore able fully and restore the Jedi in the form of Rey.

Freedom to Live: This stage is about only being able to live without the fear of death. Luke sacrifices his temporal life and attains bliss and enlightenment.

People seem to want Luke to move straight from 'attaining the boon' (being a Jedi and enlightenment) to 'freedom to live' (enlightenment given to the real world) without the intermediate stages. Which is fine, but that's not the full Heroes Journey as outlined by Campbell. Campbell's model essentially has the hero struggling with reintegration and passing on the knowledge, which is exactly what Luke struggles with after ROTJ.

 

I think we all need to remember that you can explore these areas without having to specifically match each step. Whenever you're dealing with creative things, it's OK to veer off from the formula.

I think we'll see in 9 that he is indeed helping Rey - thus passing on the "ultimate boon".

They could have just skipped all that and had Luke in wise mentor mode, but I think ultimately using him to explore the Return is much more interesting and gives him way more depth and development as a character.

 

Certainly. I think there are many overlaps of the Return throughout Luke's post-ROTJ Journey.

And even if Luke doesn't personally mentor Rey any farther (which I really hope he does), by passing on ancient Jedi texts (and by saving the Resistance so she can use them) and by inspiring the galaxy though his actions he is passing on the ultimate boon.

 

I think we have to acknowledge that Rey stole the texts, but I do think that Luke does begin to teach her, and by showing that he can overcome the failures that have crippled him, and demonstrating that the legend of Luke Skywalker and the Jedi Knights can inspire hope, I think he does enable the Jedi spirit to live on, so yes, I think you could make the case that he has passed on the ultimate boon already - though I do think we will see him continue to guide Rey moving forwards, just as every other Jedi force ghost has done.

 

Yep. The middle chapter depicts the crisis of faith.

 

Yep, but my point is that if he hadn't gathered the texts there wouldn't be any for Rey to steal. So through his actions he kind of enabled her to take them, therefore passing on the knowledge. Indirectly of course.

 

Where did you find this quote? It sounds like he is describing the 'Return' not 'the Ultimate Boon'.

EDIT: Found it. He is referencing the Refusal of the Return not the Ultimate Boon.

 

The ultimate boon in the SW saga appears to be the rise of the new Jedi.

"Without the Jedi there can be no balance".

Luke's first attempt ended in failure and he became lost / stuck upon the return.

The adventurer still must return with his life-transmuting trophy.

As of the start of TLJ, Luke has not been able to achieve this.

 

For the Saga I suppose.

For Luke the Ultimate Boon is becoming a Jedi in my opinion. Restoring the Jedi is part of Luke's 'Return' phase. If he had died, for instance, after ROTJ he would still have achieved the ultimate boon.

 

Yes, but because they extended the saga with the ST we now get to see the Return phase. Otherwise the natural assumption at the end of ROTJ is that Luke would have bestowed it upon the galaxy (the restoration of the Jedi).

They decided to make that the overarcing goal of the ST - as spelled out in TFA:

Without the Jedi can be no balance / if Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise

 

Yes but my point is that the 'Return' phase happens after the boon has been achieved. Even though we now see Luke struggle with the 'Return' phase it doesn't mean the boon has shifted, rather the boon is essential to have before embarking upon the Return. The restoration of the Jedi is, yes, the goal, but it's not the boon in my opinion, in the sense of Luke's heroes journey, rather it's the goal of his Return, which is different than the boon (it's passing on the boon). In other words you can't have the boon be passing on the boon achieved, it's a separate goal which is the culmination of the Return.

 

He has to bestow the boon upon the people to achieve the return:

The adventurer still must return with his life-transmuting trophy. The full round, the norm of the monomyth, requires that the hero shall now begin the labor of bringing the runes of wisdom, the Golden Fleece, or his sleeping princess, back into the kingdom of humanity, where the boon may redound to the renewing of the community, the nation, the planet or the ten thousand worlds

 

Yes I know. But bestowing the ultimate boon is not another ultimate boon unto itself, it's another separate thing (there isn't two separate boons). Therefore Luke achieved the ultimate boon in ROTJ.

 

I know lol. I think we're arguing the same thing. The goal of the ST - is now the restoration of the Jedi and thus balance. If Luke can't pass on what he learned, the return is not achieved.

 

Yeah I think so. I think I was confused when you said the boon is now the restoration of the Jedi (which I took to mean Luke's new boon which he achieved in ROTJ). It is the goal of his Return though, yes.

 

No, I was saying the boon (achieved in ROTJ) still needs to be bestowed upon the world.

Had there been no ST, the assumption would have been that Luke made the return successfully. Now, Ben's fall, the Jedi massacre and his subsequent loss of faith and exile derail his attempts to do so and make both an obstacle and goal along Rey's own heroes' journey. All whilst both Luke's and Rey's journeys are set against Kylo's inverse hero's journey.

It's really smart writing IMO, and I have to shake my head every time I see someone suggest TLJ abandons the Campbellian elements. It's just not true.

 

Okay I misunderstood.

I agree.

 

"Refusal of the Return" features a comprehensive listing of things that qualify as "the ultimate boon":

"When the hero-quest has been accomplished, through penetration to the source, or through the grace of some male or female, human or animal, personification, the adventurer still must return with his life-transmuting trophy. The full round, the norm of the monomyth, requires that the hero shall now begin the labor of bringing the runes of wisdom, the Golden Fleece, or his sleeping princess, back into the kingdom of humanity, where the boon may redound to the renewing of the community, the nation, the planet or the ten thousand worlds. But the responsibility has been frequently refused. ... etc."

 

Yes. And it seems the restoration of the Jedi is the ultimate boon for the saga.

 

I really like this aspect of Rey's journey in TLJ:

7. Approach To The Inmost Cave
The inmost cave may represent many things in the Hero's story such as an actual location in which lies a terrible danger or an inner conflict which up until now the Hero has not had to face. As the Hero approaches the cave he must make final preparations before taking that final leap into the great unknown.

At the threshold to the inmost cave the Hero may once again face some of the doubts and fears that first surfaced upon his call to adventure. He may need some time to reflect upon his journey and the treacherous road ahead in order to find the courage to continue. This brief respite helps the audience understand the magnitude of the ordeal that awaits the Hero and escalates the tension in anticipation of his ultimate test.

Beyond her initial desire to pass on the saber to another hero to save the galaxy she's coming of age in the ST and still struggling with who she is. She is still in denial over how awful her parents are and what that might mean about her and her potential. She still sees herself as a nobody. The same nobody who sarcastically joked that she's some top secret big deal at the start of TFA because she felt she wasn't anyone important.

This aspect is drawn out of her by Luke initially, "No... Why are YOU here Rey from nowhere?" And when she isn't finding as much of the answers she hoped to find about herself she not only scavenges the Ancient Jedi Texts for more information but proceeds to the Dark Side cave. When she also doesn't find the answers she's looking for in that vision she's at one of her most vulnerable psychological moments in her entire arc and Kylo Ren is right there to pounce on that because he desires her so badly. He obviously suspects it's one of her biggest weaknesses earlier and she basically confirms it here as she recounts her vision. This is a turning point for Ben Solo in his pursuit of Rey, and an enormous setback for her.

She didn't want the saber initially and was in denial over how horrible her parents really were and what that could mean about her. Maz told her they weren't returning but someone might. Well, he hasn't. She begins believing that destiny has brought forth this connection to Ben Solo for a reason. That Ben Solo might be the one who will come back. Their opposites attract chemistry draws them ever closer to the point where they share an intimate physical moment of touch that goes beyond the typical hero and villain dynamic and is clearly meant to signify the beginning of increased mutual desire by both sides to be with one another. It culminates with them seeing a shared vision of the future where Snoke is likely dead and both are together and contributed to that happening. From there it's all about who is willing to concede more of their current identity to allow this relationship that they are both intrigued by to happen. Rey becomes convinced it's Ben Solo who will turn for her and become the Skywalker hero the galaxy needs. It fits with what Maz told her. She feels she's making progress with him and better understands how he turned in the first place. She's been on a roll and her visions have been correct thus far so she's confident this will continue that trend. That he'll turn from the FO just as Finn did fight for the Resistance just as Finn eventually did and he'll stay with the Resistance just as she helped inspire Finn to. Plus, his mother is the Resistance Leader! This will be the happy ending the galaxy wants and who knows... if this guy can become a better person and help defeat the FO, and reconnects with his mom... maybe there could even be something there for the two of them in time? Ben Solo sees it differently. He's turned students before and he's picked up on her interest in him from the start. "I feel it too" he says in TFA. He's wanted her longer than she has him but right from the start he's felt that she has a connection with him. He feels he's making huge progress here with her and that if she's going to be a part of this future where Snoke dies it will clearly be her who turns. They're both wrong of course.

This moment also represents a huge setback for Luke in his path back. He's brought face-to-face not only with the young man who set him on this crisis of faith and this journey of exile and disbelief in what he once stood for, he's seeing him corrupting yet another student first hand! This simply confirms what he's suspected. That everything the Jedi touch seems to end in failure and darkness. Both dual protagonists on the island duel and it's a symbolic one. Rey is more aggressive than ever before. Escalating what should have been an argument to raising a saber versus a man with a stick. That's a dark side moment for her. Luke is more defensive than we've ever seen him and does't want to kill or hurt any student based on his issues of guilt. This leads them to separate but not before Luke warns her that it isn't going to go the way she thinks. Spoken like a protagonist who also learned the impact of visions the hard way.

The setup of all of this is emotionally complex and worthy of analysis.