CT How could Leia Remember her Mother ?

I agree. I don't Lucas has given this as much thought as many fans. Based on commentary and the changes he has made, he seems much more concerned with technical things like effects and scene continuity.

 

I didn’t believe they were clear, but I believed they were memories formed through experience - ie, spending time with/around her. You know, like a human being. Like the earliest memories I have of spending time around my grandmother in the kitchen, stuff like that. It’s something human beings can connect with and understand. Force visions of a mother that died the day you were born are not. It’s not very human.

Dude, no. I don’t even know what’s in the novelization. Most people who have seen ROTJ haven’t read it. People’s thoughts come from watching the scene.

 

Agreed. It's never made sense to me that the reason Leia remembers Padme is because of some force sensitivity that Luke apparently doesn't have. It always seemed to me before the PT came out that Luke was hidden at birth and Leia spent a few years with her mother and that's why she remembers her and he doesn't. Obviously that's not where the story went (and I understand that my preconceptions are meaningless and the storytellers come up with something different) but I still think that what happened is that Lucas just didn't know and/or care about the continuity and it's just a flaw in the story.

 

Yes, but . . . why would Padme give up one twin and keep the other? That doesn't make any sense to me. If she had given away both Luke and Leia before quietly dying somewhere far from them, I could understand. I could also understand if she had kept them both and taken them to some far corner of the galaxy before dying. And I could see her dying after giving birth to them. But keeping one child and handing over the other to a family she barely knew? That doesn't seem logical to me. I cannot see any parent doing such a thing, unless she or he was more emotionally attached to one child in a selfish way; or if Anakin (one who had not been turned) had been the one to raise Luke.

Why should Luke remember Padme around the same time as Leia did before their mother's death? That Leia had a brief Force connection to Padme that left behind vague memories and Luke didn't is simply the will of the Force. That is the way nature is. A roll of the dice. And Leia did explain that most of her memories of Padme were basically feelings.

 

Leia is the daughter of Anakin Skywalker. He's practically a Force God. She's got crazy Force abilities. So Leia either remembers the impression of her mother from the brief time they were together, or young Leia later sees her mother in those final moments as a vision in the Force.

I think we can take it at face value Here's what she remembers:

Not sure why this is so hard for some Star Wars fans to accept. Is it because of preconceived notions formed before the Prequels? None of us can really understand what's like to have the Force. How could any of us describe or understand a sense we didn't have?

Here's a great quote

 

And Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker so shouldn't he also have "crazy" Force abilities?

And is what Leia talks about just from Padme's last moments?
Some that have argued the Force-memory power say that Leia can see bits and pieces of Padme's whole life, not just the end of it.
If you can see the past, why would it be limited to this little bit of it?
Leia can have all sorts of memories of Padme as the queen of Naboo, Padme's childhood and more.

Others have argued that when Leia was in her mother's womb, she absorbed all of Padme's experiences during that time.

She remembers what her mother looked like, how her mother was liked to her and that her mother was sad about something. And she also knows how old she was when her mother died.

These would be consistent with early memories from when a person is about 2-4 years old, not 2-4 minutes.

No it isn't about any notions other than the general idea that things make sense.
Luke and Leia's mother died in child birth so neither one of them should remember her at all.
And indeed Luke has no memory at all of his mother, which makes sense, but Leia has memories, as I noted above.
Now things makes less sense. And the films don't try to explain this.

And you can either accept this a minor inconsistency due to the back story being changed.
Or you try to make up some explanation for this.
This gives us fan theories.
Like, Leia is talking about Bails first wife or Bail showed Leia pictures of Padme and told her what she was like.
Or the Force-memory thing.

And like I mentioned above, what applied to Leia applies equally to Luke and yet he has no memory at all.
And he has more experience of using the Force.

And leaving the whole Force-memory issue aside, as I said, Leia knows when her mother died.
Either she knows that her mother died in childbirth, but if so why didn't she say "She died when I was born" instead of "She died when I was very young"? And wouldn't Leia find it rather odd to have memories of a mother she knows died when Leia was born?
Or, Leia somehow thinks that she lived with her mother for some time and her "memories" are just normal memories.
But this also has problems. Leia came to Alderaan, literally days old. She has lived her whole life there and she has been with Bail and his wife the whole time. So her normal memories plus all official records and any pictures Bail might have taken would just show her with Bail and his wife. There is no room for a "real mother" here.
If Bail told her about her real parents or if Leia asked, would it make any sense for Bail to make up some story that Leia lived with her real mother for a few years?
No, that lie could be exposed very quickly nor is there any reason for him to make up such a story.
He would instead say that her mother died when she was born, which is the truth.
So regardless of how Leia has these "memories" they cause problems with her actual past, which has been with Bail since she was born.

That was the intended backstory.
I don't think this was about the mother caring more about one over the other.
But that she could not bear to loose both her children and if hiding them was needed, one was sent away and she might not even know where and the other remained with her.

As for how, I can think of ways to make it work.
NOTE, this does not work with the PT as is and how obsessed Anakin is with Padme.
But say Anakin is with Padme and he has had visions of having a son one day and talked a great deal about that. Wanting to give him his lightsaber and all that.
Then Anakin and Padme part ways but he does not know she is pregnant. Padme goes to live with Bail and even marries him.
Luke and Leia are born but because Obi-Wan knew that Anakin talked about a son and that the emperor knew that as well. Then Luke was hidden away and Leia was presented as Bail's real daughter.
That way, in case Vader or the Emperor gets curious, Padme has no son, just a daughter.
And Luke is safe on Tatooine.
And splitting the children up also is a precaution in case one is exposed. If Luke is found then Leia is elsewhere and vice-versa.

Why shouldn't Luke have these "memories"?
If you invent a new Force power then you have to be consistent with it.

If you say "Will of the Force" then that means the Force "gave" Leia these memories deliberately.
If so the question becomes why?
The only reason I can see for the Force to do this is to avoid a plot inconsistency in the films.
Which means that Force is aware that it is in a film and tries to prevent plot issues.

If it is just random chance and Luke could have gotten these or both of them could or neither.
Then what is the point?
Leia has these "memories" for no reason.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

Because she remembers that she was not only beautiful, but also that she was "kind, but sad". Those type of memories are built on actually being with somebody, being in their company and remembering how they behaved and treated you. You have to be with somebody a while to know that they are kind. You have to be able to remember and be able to recognise that their demeanour seemed sad. In fact, I would go so far as to say that a child would have to be considerably older than an infant to be able to recognise, distinguish and remember a sense of sadness in their parent.

 

bbbbbbbllluuuuuuuuuppppppp. Yawn........ This old line of logic isn't logical when the Force is involved. How you have any idea what someone with the Force should or shouldn't remember.

How'd Luke know about Daghobah. Luke and Leia are twins. They aren't the same person. They are both mad Force powerful but don't have the same Force powers. Their innate skills can compliment each other.

 

I like how this is apparently the one instance where the Force must operate according to scrupulous scientific logic.

 

There is nothing in ROTJ to suggest that her apparent memories were anything to do with the Force. That is you simply filling in the plot hole.

 

There's no plot hole to begin with.

 

No kidding. It's suggested by ROTS in conjunction with ROTJ.

It's not a plot hole because it's a perfectly logical explanation. You might as well call it a plot hole when Darth Vader is revealed to Luke's father. I mean, hey, that's not what Ben said in the last movie!

 

Which bit in ROTS suggests that Leia's memories of her real mother were in fact just her using the Force then?

 

Here, I'll just quote myself again:

"No kidding. It's suggested by ROTS in conjunction with ROTJ."

 

I know what you said.

 

Apparently not, because you keep flipping back and forth asking where it was established in either individual movie.

In reality, for anyone who isn't constitutionally unwilling to consider the original films in the new context provided by the prequels, it's trivially obvious how Leia could have retained vague images and feelings of her mother in a series where it's explicitly stated that Force-sensitive characters can see things from the past and future, especially where it concerns people they have a connection to.

When this is pointed out, you revert back to arguing about the scientific implausibility of it all. When it's pointed out that the Force doesn't need to follow scientific rules, you revert back to arguing that it's never explicitly explained in either individual film. And back and forth and back and forth.

 

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future, the past, old friends long gone." - Yoda

 

Luke could only see the vision of Cloud City after he had undertook Jedi training with Yoda. He saw the faint apparition of Ben in the snow, but he knew Ben (and he was slightly delirious as evidenced by his rambling moments later) There is nothing, in either movie, or both, that suggests Leia can or was using the Force to generate images, memories and feelings about her real mother and how kind and sad her mother was. A woman she never knew.

So it is simply an inconsistency. Not a dealbreaker, but a plot hole nonetheless.

 

Obi-Wan did appear to Luke on Hoth. It wasn't a product of any sort of delirium.

Nobody said Leia could or was using the Force to generate images, memories and feelings. But that the Force manifested itself through Leia by giving her images and feelings she ends up perceiving as memories of a person she was connected to. Just like the Force manifested itself through Anakin, giving him sharp reflexes and foresight, even though he was never trained in the ways of the Force. Both are strong in the Force, and such manifestations can happen because of that. This isn't some sort of technique that one learns and controls. Visions happen involuntarily.

It's not an inconsistency to begin with, let alone a plot hole. It's something that's easily explained and supported by with information provided in the movies.

 

Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he will teach him how to communicate with Qui-Gon, who has learned the path to immortality. So some ability and learning is apparently required to communicate with Force Ghosts or use the Force to have visions. This is reinforced with Luke seeing Cloud City as a result of his training under Yoda who tells him the same thing.

How do you have a vision of somebody and yet know enough of their personality to remember that they were kind? Or sad? Beautiful maybe as a visual image, but you would have to know them to remember what they were like as a person.

The entire saga is riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies. Some people will feel they are obvious or plot holes, some people will hold up something else as evidence that they are valid and deliberate and just as George intended. It doesn't really matter either way to be honest.

 

Where do visions come into play on the ability to commune with Qui-Gon for you to dump it all together? And Qui-Gon is not a Force ghost. He didn't complete his training.

Luke had the vision during his training, while in tune with the Force. That it was a result of his training is conjecture.

Through images and feelings, which is all Leia says she has. Both of which can be conveyed through the Force in the form of visions (or even through their biological connection from which the Force stems).

It matters enough to be discussed, it seems.

I don't think plot holes are suddenly something subjective and in the realm of opinion. We have provided valid evidence from the movies that explain Leia's images and feelings of Padmé. Wether they are "deliberate and just as George intended" is a different discussion. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Not the point.

 

I think that they are, because from where I am sat, that "evidence" is very tenuous. "The Force did it" is pretty flaky when you consider that Leia had shown absolutely no inclination to it at all or even mentioned that she had experienced visions since her childhood or anything. You could just as easily argue that Leia used the Force to escape Cloud City, or Leia used the Force to pilot a speeder bike.

It's a convenient enough explanation given the rather abstract nature of the Force, but it isn't a particularly conclusive one. Your evidence is woolly.

I think it was simply a retcon to fit George's prequel tale and he didn't think it significant enough to warrant any further elaboration.

 

Leia did use the Force to escape Cloud City. Luke called to her via the Force. Leia the went back to escape with Luke. The movies also are implying that Leia can pilot a speeder bike and is such a great shot with a blaster the same way Anakin could fly a podracer.

@Bob Effette - It's cool to say you just don't like the Leia remembers Padme. That's your opinion. But the facts of Star Wars totally make it possible for an infant or an unborn child to know things about the world around, and most definitely their mother.

 

You can do that here? For real? Lol

 

But the explanation is not tenuous. We are taking very specific information about the Force provided by the movies that easily explain Leia's ability to vaguely recall images and feelings from her mother. Information that would need to be flat out ignored in order to pretend that this is a plot hole.

It's not a retcon. As mentioned in the Annotated Screenplays, Leia having actual memories of Padmé was an issue to George at the time, but he still wanted one of her kids to have some sort of memory. That's why we got a vague but easily acceptable idea from Leia.